08 with blown head for sale as donner bike

DSN_KLR650
Martin Earl
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:00 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Martin Earl » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:56 pm

Hi Gerry,Just wondering how water would get into your brake lines? Just for the purpose of conversation--It might be considered 'bad form' or bad maintenance, the only time I replace the brake fluid is when it becomes dark (as seen in the sight-glass or rear reservoir) and/or when I am replacing brake pads.I use a 'chicken baster' to remove most of the dark fluid from the reservoir, then refill with fresh, clear brake fluid, then do a normal brake bleed until clear fluid is seen during the bleed. It will usually take 2-3-4 refills to see clear fluids. I recently saw a suggestion (BMW forum) for purging old brake fluid, that was to back flush the wheel cylinder through the master cylinder. (YMMV for success)Admittedly, the author suggested it could/would make a mess and due care is required due to the super caustic characteristics of brake fluid. = paint remover to all it touches. +1 on the brake lines.I think Fred's link to brake fade has significant merit at well. as a side note, I applaud your decision to stop riding and investigate the cause of 'no-brakes.'m1.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:40 AM, gerryponline@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Thanks to all that responded to my post. Having considered all the information that I received, I'm pretty sure that the problem was caused by water contamination of the brake fluid, causing it to boil with aggressive riding. Between having other bikes, and a way too busy schedule, I haven't been riding my KLR much at all lately. Although I changed the brake fluid 1400 miles ago, that was back in late September of 2014. Shame on me. I now have much more spare time, and will catch up on many things, KLR maintenance included. I expect good results. Gerry P.S. I do have steel brake lines and recommend them for all motorcycles with hydraulic brakes.

Eddie
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2000 9:42 am

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Eddie » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:02 pm

#ygrps-yiv-673794767 {margin:0.7em;}#ygrps-yiv-673794767 p {margin:0;}#ygrps-yiv-673794767 .ygrps-yiv-673794767OECFntDef {font-family:"Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;}   --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: http://www.oeclassic.com/   -eddie Original Message:

From: gerryponline@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 7/7/2016 1:40:28 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Re: Brakes, No Brakes, Brakes    Thanks to all that responded to my post. Having considered all the information that I received, I'm pretty sure that the problem was caused by water contamination of the brake fluid, causing it to boil with aggressive riding.  Between having other bikes, and a way too busy schedule, I haven't been riding my KLR much at all lately. Although I changed the brake fluid 1400 miles ago, that was back in late September of 2014. Shame on me. I now have much more spare time, and will catch up on many things, KLR maintenance included. I expect good results. Gerry P.S. I do have steel brake lines and recommend them for all motorcycles with hydraulic brakes.


Eddie
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2000 9:42 am

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Eddie » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:07 pm

#ygrps-yiv-2119141262 {margin:0.7em;}#ygrps-yiv-2119141262 p {margin:0;}#ygrps-yiv-2119141262 .ygrps-yiv-2119141262OECFntDef {font-family:"Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;} Time is the enemy of brake fluid, I'm afraid. Moisture can gather in a system that's not being used at all. I poured a good tablespoon of water off the top of the rubber insert from the front brake of a new 2006 Honda 919 that I bought in 2008. Until 2 days prior to that, it'd never been outside the dealership's showroom. The fluid in my girlfriend's V-Star 950 looked like cheap cola after a similar time in a warehouse crate prior to being sold to us. -eddie   --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: http://www.oeclassic.com/   Original Message:

From: gerryponline@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 7/7/2016 1:40:28 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Re: Brakes, No Brakes, Brakes    Thanks to all that responded to my post. Having considered all the information that I received, I'm pretty sure that the problem was caused by water contamination of the brake fluid, causing it to boil with aggressive riding.  Between having other bikes, and a way too busy schedule, I haven't been riding my KLR much at all lately. Although I changed the brake fluid 1400 miles ago, that was back in late September of 2014. Shame on me. I now have much more spare time, and will catch up on many things, KLR maintenance included. I expect good results. Gerry P.S. I do have steel brake lines and recommend them for all motorcycles with hydraulic brakes.

Martin Earl
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:00 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Martin Earl » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:17 pm

Thanks Eddie-Living in a place where the relative humidity is 'irrelevant' we don't see such problems as condensate in the brake reservoir, very often.IRT to the 919 and the moisture content, I would suggest the brake fluid went into the system contaminated to have that much water in a new-closed system; = the factory had a very poor QC at the time of assembly. m1.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 12:06 PM, 'Eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Time is the enemy of brake fluid, I'm afraid. Moisture can gather in a system that's not being used at all. I poured a good tablespoon of water off the top of the rubber insert from the front brake of a new 2006 Honda 919 that I bought in 2008. Until 2 days prior to that, it'd never been outside the dealership's showroom. The fluid in my girlfriend's V-Star 950 looked like cheap cola after a similar time in a warehouse crate prior to being sold to us. -eddie --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: http://www.oeclassic.com/ Original Message:

From: gerryponline@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 7/7/2016 1:40:28 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Re: Brakes, No Brakes, Brakes Thanks to all that responded to my post. Having considered all the information that I received, I'm pretty sure that the problem was caused by water contamination of the brake fluid, causing it to boil with aggressive riding. Between having other bikes, and a way too busy schedule, I haven't been riding my KLR much at all lately. Although I changed the brake fluid 1400 miles ago, that was back in late September of 2014. Shame on me. I now have much more spare time, and will catch up on many things, KLR maintenance included. I expect good results. Gerry P.S. I do have steel brake lines and recommend them for all motorcycles with hydraulic brakes.

Martin Earl
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:00 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Martin Earl » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Those photo's are quite incredible!Thanks for sharing. On a separate note, the dealer should never have let (a new bike) leave his store with the brake fluid in that condition.Somebody was not doing a pre-delivery inspection.m1.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Martin Earl wrote: Thanks Eddie-Living in a place where the relative humidity is 'irrelevant' we don't see such problems as condensate in the brake reservoir, very often.IRT to the 919 and the moisture content, I would suggest the brake fluid went into the system contaminated to have that much water in a new-closed system; = the factory had a very poor QC at the time of assembly. m1. On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 12:06 PM, 'Eddie' edgyver40@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Time is the enemy of brake fluid, I'm afraid. Moisture can gather in a system that's not being used at all. I poured a good tablespoon of water off the top of the rubber insert from the front brake of a new 2006 Honda 919 that I bought in 2008. Until 2 days prior to that, it'd never been outside the dealership's showroom. The fluid in my girlfriend's V-Star 950 looked like cheap cola after a similar time in a warehouse crate prior to being sold to us. -eddie --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: http://www.oeclassic.com/ Original Message:

From: gerryponline@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 7/7/2016 1:40:28 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Re: Brakes, No Brakes, Brakes Thanks to all that responded to my post. Having considered all the information that I received, I'm pretty sure that the problem was caused by water contamination of the brake fluid, causing it to boil with aggressive riding. Between having other bikes, and a way too busy schedule, I haven't been riding my KLR much at all lately. Although I changed the brake fluid 1400 miles ago, that was back in late September of 2014. Shame on me. I now have much more spare time, and will catch up on many things, KLR maintenance included. I expect good results. Gerry P.S. I do have steel brake lines and recommend them for all motorcycles with hydraulic brakes.

Michael Martin
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 7:47 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Michael Martin » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:57 pm

Here's an article addressing how water gets into brake lines. http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/brake_fluid/page2.html . 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Martin Earl
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:00 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Martin Earl » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:08 pm

Well, Mike and Fred, there you go again:Offering science over conjecture and speculation. cough. Both were excellent reads.The thought of water-absorption through microscopic pores is new to me, yet I remember semi-permeable membranes, think osmosis, exist in other applications, to include air leaking through rubber tubes of our tires/wheels.I expected that seals might let water in, but never thought about the line itself allowing water to pass.I would expect that to occur after heating the brake fluid during hard braking and then cool, moist air being drawn into the hotter brake fluid. Excellent discussion.m.
On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Michael Martin mmartin36@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Here's an article addressing how water gets into brake lines. http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/brake_fluid/page2.html . Mike Martin

Lee Dodge
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:21 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by Lee Dodge » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:06 pm

Have you determined that the piston in the caliper are moving .  .  .smoothly . . .or even at all!
(I just scanned the postings, someone may have already suggested that )

imfreelandian
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:15 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by imfreelandian » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:10 pm

Hi Martin, I don't know how I got water in my brake fluid, but I do believe that is the cause of the problem. In any case, that seems to be where to start. I like to try the easy things first. For replacing brake fluid, I use a piece of tubing with a check valve in it on the caliper. and pump the new fluid from the master cylinder through the system. This has always worked well for me, and seems less messy than flushing it in the other direction. Gerry

imfreelandian
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:15 pm

brakes, no brakes, brakes

Post by imfreelandian » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:15 pm

Lee, the pistons are moving freely, seems like all's well now. Gerry

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