Wilsons Sandbox

Sorry, but I'm fading so will have to be brief. Happy to add any additional info later. Martin asked about my installation of a carb jet into an oil passage so here's some background: Oil consumption issues have been liked to several areas but it appears that the most important for all KLR650's are: low and uneven engine operating temperature, and excessive oil throw off from the crankshaft. IMO, piston oil return and such are related to the oil throw off and can also yield improvement but the most important is to reduce the volume of oil throw off. Paul Westman of Lander Kawasaki has been testing a number of KLR over more than a year of riding, with oil analysis so this is very solid work. I have done several of my version of this modification with marked success in several cases. None have lacked some improvement. The process is to place a restriction into the oil gallery between the oil filter cavity and the crankshaft oil pocket to reduce the rate of flow. As an assist to this, the three banjo bolts are cross drilled to 1/8" which is something I began several years ago. More oil to the cams and transmission reduces the excessive oil to the crankshaft. Paul's procedure is to remove the clutch side engine cover and drill the downward oil passage from the oil filter cavity to the crankshaft oil pocket. An insert which is drilled to size is threaded in and the case cleaned, My procedure is to drill the oil filter cover, thread and insert an annealed set screw drilled to orifice size. I prefer this because it is simpler to do, not requiring removal of the engine side cover. It also allows the orifice to be cleaned by high pressure air at each filter change since the passage can be blown out from either end. It might require that the orifice be a bit bigger due to the leakage between the filter cover and cavity. Here is a link to some more information but if something is unclear or someone needs to have it in another form, let me know.  IMO, this is the most exciting engine related development for the KLR. Note: I began by drilling a main jet to size and threading the jet into a brass spark plug end nut. The assembly was pressed into the filter cap. That was version 1. In version 2, I threaded the cap and inserted an annealed set screw. That's what I'm installing now. PD Westman Mod [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcf.dropboxstatic.com%2Fstatic%2Fimages%2Ficons128%2Ffolder_dropbox.png&t=1571810474&sig=rY9378bOEETWLyNcXFESWw--~E[/img] PD Westman Mod Shared with Dropbox View on www.dropbox.com Preview by Yahoo  

#ygrps-yiv-1954320341 {margin:0.7em;}#ygrps-yiv-1954320341 p {margin:0;}#ygrps-yiv-1954320341 .ygrps-yiv-1954320341OECFntDef {font-family:"Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;} My girlfriend bought a new GS500F a few years ago and the dealership had lost the original keys. They provided two locally cut replacements and neither one really worked very well. When Gen lost one of those, I took the remaining copy to a different locksmith and had a duplicate of the duplicate made. You'd think that would not go well. For $5, its was worth a shot. To our surprise, copy 2.0 worked perfectly! You could give that a shot. Take the bike to the locksmith & they might can determine why the key doesn't fully function. -eddie   --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: http://www.oeclassic.com/   Original Message:

From: dr.sachs@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 4/12/2016 2:26:36 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Key Won't Lock Forks   

Hi.  2007 KLR650.  Lost my original key but have one I had made by a locksmith in the past.  They key will turn from off to on and will unlock/lock the gas cap, but it will not turn to lock the forks.  I do know to push down before twisting to lock the forks, but no go. Suggestions, please? Thanks.   .[img]http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/gr ... 1460485597[/img] [img]http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywa ... o&resp=img[/img] 

There is a difference between a hand made key and one that is code cut to factory specs.  A few thousandths can make a difference between a key/lock that gets a lot of use (ing) and one that does not (fork lock side of the switch). Tell the locksmith you want a code cut original spec key.  He should be able to decode the cuts on your existing key and cut one on his code machine.  If he cant, go find a real locksmith. Randy Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "dr.sachs@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Date: 04/12/2016 12:26 PM (GMT-07:00) To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Key Won't Lock Forks   Hi.  2007 KLR650.  Lost my original key but have one I had made by a locksmith in the past.  They key will turn from off to on and will unlock/lock the gas cap, but it will not turn to lock the forks.  I do know to push down before twisting to lock the forks, but no go. Suggestions, please? Thanks.

dr. s-From the position that the key worked,Did you remove the key and re-insert the key 180 degrees?(as I recall), the ignition key switch will sometimes work better on one side of the key than the other, at least mine does. shrug.That one of my keys, works better one way or the other indicates to me, the key is probably not a factory key. I don't know if this matters, but as I recall, there are actually 4 different key blanks for the the Gen 1 receivers.It may be that you are 'close' to the right blank, it works in 3 of 4 applications (3=helmet lock), but it might not 'lock' the forks.You can read more about key blanks, here in the FAQ:http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html While attempting to make a new key from the bike's lock-sources--An odd thing about the helmet lock (as I recall) it uses one less tumbler and a key made from the helmet lock, will not turn the ignition switch. (as I recall.) m1. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2F2016%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-open-tick-round-orange-v1.png&t=1571810474&sig=V1a2cmnkAYgomgccM4zLlQ--~E[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:26 PM, dr.sachs@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. 2007 KLR650. Lost my original key but have one I had made by a locksmith in the past. They key will turn from off to on and will unlock/lock the gas cap, but it will not turn to lock the forks. I do know to push down before twisting to lock the forks, but no go. Suggestions, please? Thanks.

 

The keys are double sided as a convenience (cuts are same on both sides), not a security design of the lock (cuts are different on both sides). The cuts are supposed to be the same on both sides of the key so it will work either way it is put in. When a double sided (convenience) key is duplicated (not code cut) sometimes it is not in exact same position in the machine s vise jaws both times (a potential for error on one side). There is also consideration that if a duplicating machine is adjusted close enough by the locksmith it may be a few thousandths off (high or low) in cutting a duplicate. If this were magnified by continuously making a copy off the copy by about the 3rd or 4th generation the last copy will not work in the lock. This is why I suggested having a locksmith decode the cuts and positions of your key and cut one on the code machine to ensure the positions (5 or 6 as I recall) and depths (1-4 with 4 being the deepest) are back to factory specifications. This should eliminate all errors on the key side of the equation.

 

On the lock side of the issue, the discs (tumblers) wear as the key rides over the surface of each going in and out of the lock (over time there is also wear on the keyway leaving space for misalignment of the key blank to its slot). Eventually this changes the alignment of the disc that is supposed to be flush with the outer surface of the plug barrel when the key is seated, leaving an area where the edge of the disc may protrude a few thousandths. As this condition begins and progresses, the protrusions also wear matching groves in the cylinder bore as the plug rotates in essence all the parts wear together and continue to work. Because we commonly use the clockwise rotation of the key far more than we use the fork lock counter clockwise rotation, the wear to the fork lock side is closer to factory specification and hinders the worn and misaligned key/disc s function in that direction.

 

Replacing the discs and or the plug and or the cylinder will bring everything back to factory specification, but the cheaper first try solution is to have a locksmith make you a code cut key.

 

Martin is correct there are fewer discs (tumblers) in the gas cap and helmet lock (which operate off the first 3 cuts on the tip of the key) than in the ING lock (5 or 6 as I recall). Manufactures of key blanks (Ilco, Jet, Taylor, etc) do a good job of getting the dimensional specifications correct. What often happens is the lockshop will not have the correct blank in stock and alter a different blank to work. If they are meticulous in their machining this can work, but it leaves the new (altered) key with a different blank number than what it should have and the next person that duplicates off this altered key will look at the (improper) blank number, grab one off the shelf, and their copy doesn t work half the time.

 

Randy

 

[b]SniperOne[/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:27 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN KLR650; dr.sachs@... [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Key Won't Lock Forks

 

 

dr. s-

From the position that the key worked,

Did you remove the key and re-insert the key 180 degrees?

(as I recall), the ignition key switch will sometimes work better on one side of the key than the other, at least mine does. shrug.

That one of my keys, works better one way or the other indicates to me, the key is probably not a factory key.

 

I don't know if this matters, but as I recall, there are actually 4 different key blanks for the the Gen 1 receivers.

It may be that you are 'close' to the right blank, it works in 3 of 4 applications (3=helmet lock), but it might not 'lock' the forks.

You can read more about key blanks, here in the FAQ:

http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html

 

While attempting to make a new key from the bike's lock-sources--

An odd thing about the helmet lock (as I recall) it uses one less tumbler and a key made from the helmet lock, will not turn the ignition switch. (as I recall.)

 

m1.

 

 

 

 

 

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2F2016%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-open-tick-round-orange-v1.png&t=1571810474&sig=V1a2cmnkAYgomgccM4zLlQ--~E[/img]

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:26 PM, dr.sachs@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi.  2007 KLR650.  Lost my original key but have one I had made by a locksmith in the past.  They key will turn from off to on and will unlock/lock the gas cap, but it will not turn to lock the forks.  I do know to push down before twisting to lock the forks, but no go.   Suggestions, please?   Thanks.  

 

Wow, an excellent post. Hitting my forehead again; face palm. From: mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 10:36 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; 'Martin Earl' ; dr.sachs@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Key Won't Lock Forks The keys are double sided as a convenience (cuts are same on both sides), not a security design of the lock (cuts are different on both sides). The cuts are supposed to be the same on both sides of the key so it will work either way it is put in. When a double sided (convenience) key is duplicated (not code cut) sometimes it is not in exact same position in the machine s vise jaws both times (a potential for error on one side). There is also consideration that if a duplicating machine is adjusted close enough by the locksmith it may be a few thousandths off (high or low) in cutting a duplicate. If this were magnified by continuously making a copy off the copy by about the 3rd or 4th generation the last copy will not work in the lock. This is why I suggested having a locksmith decode the cuts and positions of your key and cut one on the code machine to ensure the positions (5 or 6 as I recall) and depths (1-4 with 4 being the deepest) are back to factory specifications. This should eliminate all errors on the key side of the equation. On the lock side of the issue, the discs (tumblers) wear as the key rides over the surface of each going in and out of the lock (over time there is also wear on the keyway leaving space for misalignment of the key blank to its slot). Eventually this changes the alignment of the disc that is supposed to be flush with the outer surface of the plug barrel when the key is seated, leaving an area where the edge of the disc may protrude a few thousandths. As this condition begins and progresses, the protrusions also wear matching groves in the cylinder bore as the plug rotates in essence all the parts wear together and continue to work. Because we commonly use the clockwise rotation of the key far more than we use the fork lock counter clockwise rotation, the wear to the fork lock side is closer to factory specification and hinders the worn and misaligned key/disc s function in that direction. Replacing the discs and or the plug and or the cylinder will bring everything back to factory specification, but the cheaper first try solution is to have a locksmith make you a code cut key. Martin is correct there are fewer discs (tumblers) in the gas cap and helmet lock (which operate off the first 3 cuts on the tip of the key) than in the ING lock (5 or 6 as I recall). Manufactures of key blanks (Ilco, Jet, Taylor, etc) do a good job of getting the dimensional specifications correct. What often happens is the lockshop will not have the correct blank in stock and alter a different blank to work. If they are meticulous in their machining this can work, but it leaves the new (altered) key with a different blank number than what it should have and the next person that duplicates off this altered key will look at the (improper) blank number, grab one off the shelf, and their copy doesn t work half the time. Randy SniperOne From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:27 AM To: DSN KLR650; dr.sachs@... Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Key Won't Lock Forks dr. s- From the position that the key worked, Did you remove the key and re-insert the key 180 degrees? (as I recall), the ignition key switch will sometimes work better on one side of the key than the other, at least mine does. shrug. That one of my keys, works better one way or the other indicates to me, the key is probably not a factory key. I don't know if this matters, but as I recall, there are actually 4 different key blanks for the the Gen 1 receivers. It may be that you are 'close' to the right blank, it works in 3 of 4 applications (3=helmet lock), but it might not 'lock' the forks. You can read more about key blanks, here in the FAQ: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html While attempting to make a new key from the bike's lock-sources-- An odd thing about the helmet lock (as I recall) it uses one less tumbler and a key made from the helmet lock, will not turn the ignition switch. (as I recall.) m1. Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 12:26 PM, dr.sachs@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. 2007 KLR650. Lost my original key but have one I had made by a locksmith in the past. They key will turn from off to on and will unlock/lock the gas cap, but it will not turn to lock the forks. I do know to push down before twisting to lock the forks, but no go. Suggestions, please? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]