nklr- 45 hp two stroke

[Norm Keller]

I sent a request to EBC Brakes, yesterday, in which I asked for information regarding their HH pads for the front of the Gen1 & Gen2 KLR650. I asked about the friction to clamping pressure relationship, the effect of pad area, and the effect of increasing rotor diameter. I asked for links to web resources such graphs, but also asked for general effects which would be applicable to technician level understanding. Here was the response. I have to say that this will strongly influence my respect for EBC. I will pay the difference for OEM in future because I hold this to be unacceptable. Others' results may vary. Other brake manufacturers may be more helpful. ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Ben Lappin" To: "normkel32@..." Sent: 2015-02-06 8:45:33 AM Subject: EBC Brakes Hi Norm, Sorry, I don t have any graphs or resources that would illustrate the information you are looking for. Larger diameter discs, larger pad contact and multiple piston calipers all change the brake effort and effect but no graphs available that I know of to show the relation of this information. Kind regards Ben Lappin Meet our team at the following events: Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, FL, USA 15-18 October 2015 Las Vegas Convention Center Las Vegas, NV, USA 3-6 November 2015 Registered office: EBC Brakes USA Inc, 6180 South Pearl Street, Las Vegas, Nevada 89120. This email represents the opinions of the sender and may not portray any official company views and is not binding on the Company. Prices and deliveries quoted are only valid if countersigned by a Company Director and otherwise are to be considered an approximate quotation. No purchase orders are valid unless accompanied by a Company order number. This email is private and intended solely for the addressee. The contents may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please do not read, print, copy, distribute or act in reliance on it. If you receive this email in error please notify us immediately so that we may forward it to the correct person and kindly immediately permanently delete it and any attachments from your system. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments. From: EBC Website Reply-To: "normkel32@..." Date: Friday, 6 February 2015 00:37 To: webmaster EBC Brakes Subject: Form submission from EBC website - Contact Page Form Your Name (required) Norm Keller Your Email (required) normkel32@... Select Your Country (required) Canada Your Message I am a retired automotive and motorcycle technician who is attempting to better understand braking performance. Are you able to point me to a technical level web resource which will help me to better understand the relation of brake pad clamping force to braking effort/effect. I will try to provide context in the hope that my request will be better communicated: The first generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 38 mm single piston front brake caliper. The second generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 27 mm dual piston front brake caliper. I estimate the piston area of the first generation as about 1134 mm2 and the piston area of the second generation as about 1145 mm2 or about 101% of first generation. I estimate the pad area of the first generation as about 1384 mm2 and the pad area of the second generation as about 1664 mm2 or about 120% of first generation. The first generation uses a 260 mm rotor while the second generation rotor is 280 mm. Both use the same master cylinder. The brake performance of the second generation is significantly better than the first generation when each use stock brake pads or both use your HH pads which are what I generally install onto bikes. Talking from a layperson's perspective and estimation: 1) How much of the improved braking is due to the larger diameter rotor? 2) Since the piston area and hydraulic pressure are similar, what improvement is due to the larger pad area of the second generation? 3) Is there a graph of apply pressure/clamping force which would illustrate the effect of increasing the lever pressure on braking? It feels as though the lever effort and braking effect are not linear. I appreciate your attention and will report positively the information to several large motorcycle internet groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Fred Hink]

Sorry to say but EBC USA is lacking in lots of ways which I won t go into here but if you want real help with anything EBC, you need to contact the manufacturer in England.  http://ebcbrakes.com/contact-ebc/  I have better connections if this doesn t work for you.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 12:20 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes     I sent a request to EBC Brakes, yesterday, in which I asked for information regarding their HH pads for the front of the Gen1 & Gen2 KLR650. I asked about the friction to clamping pressure relationship, the effect of pad area, and the effect of increasing rotor diameter. I asked for links to web resources such graphs, but also asked for general effects which would be applicable to technician level understanding. Here was the response. I have to say that this will strongly influence my respect for EBC. I will pay the difference for OEM in future because I hold this to be unacceptable. Others' results may vary. Other brake manufacturers may be more helpful. ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Ben Lappin" To: "normkel32@..." Sent: 2015-02-06 8:45:33 AM Subject: EBC Brakes Hi Norm, Sorry, I don t have any graphs or resources that would illustrate the information you are looking for. Larger diameter discs, larger pad contact and multiple piston calipers all change the brake effort and effect but no graphs available that I know of to show the relation of this information. Kind regards Ben Lappin Meet our team at the following events: Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, FL, USA 15-18 October 2015 Las Vegas Convention Center Las Vegas, NV, USA 3-6 November 2015 Registered office: EBC Brakes USA Inc, 6180 South Pearl Street, Las Vegas, Nevada 89120. This email represents the opinions of the sender and may not portray any official company views and is not binding on the Company. Prices and deliveries quoted are only valid if countersigned by a Company Director and otherwise are to be considered an approximate quotation. No purchase orders are valid unless accompanied by a Company order number. This email is private and intended solely for the addressee. The contents may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please do not read, print, copy, distribute or act in reliance on it. If you receive this email in error please notify us immediately so that we may forward it to the correct person and kindly immediately permanently delete it and any attachments from your system. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments. From: EBC Website Reply-To: "normkel32@..." Date: Friday, 6 February 2015 00:37 To: webmaster EBC Brakes Subject: Form submission from EBC website - Contact Page Form Your Name (required) Norm Keller Your Email (required) normkel32@... Select Your Country (required) Canada Your Message I am a retired automotive and motorcycle technician who is attempting to better understand braking performance. Are you able to point me to a technical level web resource which will help me to better understand the relation of brake pad clamping force to braking effort/effect. I will try to provide context in the hope that my request will be better communicated: The first generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 38 mm single piston front brake caliper. The second generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 27 mm dual piston front brake caliper. I estimate the piston area of the first generation as about 1134 mm2 and the piston area of the second generation as about 1145 mm2 or about 101% of first generation. I estimate the pad area of the first generation as about 1384 mm2 and the pad area of the second generation as about 1664 mm2 or about 120% of first generation. The first generation uses a 260 mm rotor while the second generation rotor is 280 mm. Both use the same master cylinder. The brake performance of the second generation is significantly better than the first generation when each use stock brake pads or both use your HH pads which are what I generally install onto bikes. Talking from a layperson's perspective and estimation: 1) How much of the improved braking is due to the larger diameter rotor? 2) Since the piston area and hydraulic pressure are similar, what improvement is due to the larger pad area of the second generation? 3) Is there a graph of apply pressure/clamping force which would illustrate the effect of increasing the lever pressure on braking? It feels as though the lever effort and braking effect are not linear. I appreciate your attention and will report positively the information to several large motorcycle internet groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-582692468 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-582692468cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-582692468 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-582692468cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-582692468 .ygrps-yiv-582692468plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-582692468 .ygrps-yiv-582692468plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-582692468 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-582692468 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-582692468 .ygrps-yiv-582692468plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-582692468 .ygrps-yiv-582692468plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} Simply another illustration that we keep you around for more than your good looks alone, Fred.    Thanks.   I will check with them and report back.   ------ Original Message ------ From: "Fred Hink" To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-02-06 11:28:18 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes  

Sorry to say but EBC USA is lacking in lots of ways which I won t go into here but if you want real help with anything EBC, you need to contact the manufacturer in England.  http://ebcbrakes.com/contact-ebc/  I have better connections if this doesn t work for you.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 12:20 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes     I sent a request to EBC Brakes, yesterday, in which I asked for information regarding their HH pads for the front of the Gen1 & Gen2 KLR650. I asked about the friction to clamping pressure relationship, the effect of pad area, and the effect of increasing rotor diameter. I asked for links to web resources such graphs, but also asked for general effects which would be applicable to technician level understanding. Here was the response. I have to say that this will strongly influence my respect for EBC. I will pay the difference for OEM in future because I hold this to be unacceptable. Others' results may vary. Other brake manufacturers may be more helpful. ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Ben Lappin" To: "normkel32@..." Sent: 2015-02-06 8:45:33 AM Subject: EBC Brakes Hi Norm, Sorry, I don t have any graphs or resources that would illustrate the information you are looking for. Larger diameter discs, larger pad contact and multiple piston calipers all change the brake effort and effect but no graphs available that I know of to show the relation of this information. Kind regards Ben Lappin Meet our team at the following events: Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, FL, USA 15-18 October 2015 Las Vegas Convention Center Las Vegas, NV, USA 3-6 November 2015 Registered office: EBC Brakes USA Inc, 6180 South Pearl Street, Las Vegas, Nevada 89120. This email represents the opinions of the sender and may not portray any official company views and is not binding on the Company. Prices and deliveries quoted are only valid if countersigned by a Company Director and otherwise are to be considered an approximate quotation. No purchase orders are valid unless accompanied by a Company order number. This email is private and intended solely for the addressee. The contents may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please do not read, print, copy, distribute or act in reliance on it. If you receive this email in error please notify us immediately so that we may forward it to the correct person and kindly immediately permanently delete it and any attachments from your system. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments. From: EBC Website Reply-To: "normkel32@..." Date: Friday, 6 February 2015 00:37 To: webmaster EBC Brakes Subject: Form submission from EBC website - Contact Page Form Your Name (required) Norm Keller Your Email (required) normkel32@... Select Your Country (required) Canada Your Message I am a retired automotive and motorcycle technician who is attempting to better understand braking performance. Are you able to point me to a technical level web resource which will help me to better understand the relation of brake pad clamping force to braking effort/effect. I will try to provide context in the hope that my request will be better communicated: The first generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 38 mm single piston front brake caliper. The second generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 27 mm dual piston front brake caliper. I estimate the piston area of the first generation as about 1134 mm2 and the piston area of the second generation as about 1145 mm2 or about 101% of first generation. I estimate the pad area of the first generation as about 1384 mm2 and the pad area of the second generation as about 1664 mm2 or about 120% of first generation. The first generation uses a 260 mm rotor while the second generation rotor is 280 mm. Both use the same master cylinder. The brake performance of the second generation is significantly better than the first generation when each use stock brake pads or both use your HH pads which are what I generally install onto bikes. Talking from a layperson's perspective and estimation: 1) How much of the improved braking is due to the larger diameter rotor? 2) Since the piston area and hydraulic pressure are similar, what improvement is due to the larger pad area of the second generation? 3) Is there a graph of apply pressure/clamping force which would illustrate the effect of increasing the lever pressure on braking? It feels as though the lever effort and braking effect are not linear. I appreciate your attention and will report positively the information to several large motorcycle internet groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[achesley43@ymail.com]

I've been using EBC HH pads on both my Gen 1 KLR ( 40,000 miles )  and my 1250S Bandit (74,000 miles )  for many miles and years. Noticed the improvement in braking right on with stock disks on both. When breaking in the fronts on the KLR with Kenda 761, Kenda 21 , Gripsters, Plus what ever tire I had on at the time ( probably about 5 or 6 front pad changes due to dusty.  I could make it howl on the old blacktop around the hood. I don't want/need any more than that. The Bandit will slide the front if I get stupid. 

Never cared at performance graphs and the like. Guess I'm old school and do and use what feels good to me and works for me. 

[Fred Hink]

I m not aware of HH rated EBC brakepads for your early model KLR.  There are two pads from EBC available that I know of and are not HH rated.  The X compound is an organic pad that is to be used in dry conditions and is easier on the rotors.  The R compound is a sintered pad and is for wet or muddy conditions also for longer life.   For the newer KLRs there is an EBC optional HH rated brakepad but not for the early models.  HH rated brakepads are designed to resist higher temps from high speed stops.  Most larger and sport bikes will come with HH rated brakepads but I doubt the KLR really needs this brakepad unless you do a lot of high speed panic type stops.  The disadvantage of HH rated brakepads over a standard pad is that it sometimes takes a little heat before this brakepad works up to it s maximum potential.  A standard brakepad works well cold and needs no heat to work best.  The standard brakepad also will fade easier but that seldom happens on a KLR.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 2:22 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes    

I've been using EBC HH pads on both my Gen 1 KLR ( 40,000 miles )  and my 1250S Bandit (74,000 miles )  for many miles and years. Noticed the improvement in braking right on with stock disks on both. When breaking in the fronts on the KLR with Kenda 761, Kenda 21 , Gripsters, Plus what ever tire I had on at the time ( probably about 5 or 6 front pad changes due to dusty.  I could make it howl on the old blacktop around the hood. I don't want/need any more than that. The Bandit will slide the front if I get stupid.  Never cared at performance graphs and the like. Guess I'm old school and do and use what feels good to me and works for me.

[Fred Hink]

Sorry Norm but my looks have faded.  You re going to have to look else where for those but I don t mind staying around if my brain still works.   Sometimes I have to wonder...   for example, this morning I looked for an hour for my first quarters sales receipts so I could run the year s receipts to my tax lady.  After giving up I found them, in the pile of the rest of my sales receipts.  DOH!   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 12:40 PM [b]To:[/b] moabmc@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes     Simply another illustration that we keep you around for more than your good looks alone, Fred.    Thanks.   I will check with them and report back.   ------ Original Message ------ From: "Fred Hink" To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-02-06 11:28:18 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes  

Sorry to say but EBC USA is lacking in lots of ways which I won t go into here but if you want real help with anything EBC, you need to contact the manufacturer in England.  http://ebcbrakes.com/contact-ebc/  I have better connections if this doesn t work for you.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 12:20 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes    

I sent a request to EBC Brakes, yesterday, in which I asked for information regarding their HH pads for the front of the Gen1 & Gen2 KLR650. I asked about the friction to clamping pressure relationship, the effect of pad area, and the effect of increasing rotor diameter. I asked for links to web resources such graphs, but also asked for general effects which would be applicable to technician level understanding. Here was the response. I have to say that this will strongly influence my respect for EBC. I will pay the difference for OEM in future because I hold this to be unacceptable. Others' results may vary. Other brake manufacturers may be more helpful. ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Ben Lappin" To: "normkel32@..." Sent: 2015-02-06 8:45:33 AM Subject: EBC Brakes Hi Norm, Sorry, I don t have any graphs or resources that would illustrate the information you are looking for. Larger diameter discs, larger pad contact and multiple piston calipers all change the brake effort and effect but no graphs available that I know of to show the relation of this information. Kind regards Ben Lappin Meet our team at the following events: Orange County Convention Center, Orlando, FL, USA 15-18 October 2015 Las Vegas Convention Center Las Vegas, NV, USA 3-6 November 2015 Registered office: EBC Brakes USA Inc, 6180 South Pearl Street, Las Vegas, Nevada 89120. This email represents the opinions of the sender and may not portray any official company views and is not binding on the Company. Prices and deliveries quoted are only valid if countersigned by a Company Director and otherwise are to be considered an approximate quotation. No purchase orders are valid unless accompanied by a Company order number. This email is private and intended solely for the addressee. The contents may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please do not read, print, copy, distribute or act in reliance on it. If you receive this email in error please notify us immediately so that we may forward it to the correct person and kindly immediately permanently delete it and any attachments from your system. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments. From: EBC Website Reply-To: "normkel32@..." Date: Friday, 6 February 2015 00:37 To: webmaster EBC Brakes Subject: Form submission from EBC website - Contact Page Form Your Name (required) Norm Keller Your Email (required) normkel32@... Select Your Country (required) Canada Your Message I am a retired automotive and motorcycle technician who is attempting to better understand braking performance. Are you able to point me to a technical level web resource which will help me to better understand the relation of brake pad clamping force to braking effort/effect. I will try to provide context in the hope that my request will be better communicated: The first generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 38 mm single piston front brake caliper. The second generation KLR650 Kawasaki uses a 27 mm dual piston front brake caliper. I estimate the piston area of the first generation as about 1134 mm2 and the piston area of the second generation as about 1145 mm2 or about 101% of first generation. I estimate the pad area of the first generation as about 1384 mm2 and the pad area of the second generation as about 1664 mm2 or about 120% of first generation. The first generation uses a 260 mm rotor while the second generation rotor is 280 mm. Both use the same master cylinder. The brake performance of the second generation is significantly better than the first generation when each use stock brake pads or both use your HH pads which are what I generally install onto bikes. Talking from a layperson's perspective and estimation: 1) How much of the improved braking is due to the larger diameter rotor? 2) Since the piston area and hydraulic pressure are similar, what improvement is due to the larger pad area of the second generation? 3) Is there a graph of apply pressure/clamping force which would illustrate the effect of increasing the lever pressure on braking? It feels as though the lever effort and braking effect are not linear. I appreciate your attention and will report positively the information to several large motorcycle internet groups. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[achesley43@ymail.com]

My mistake. Had to go to my records and check. HH's just on the 1260S Bandit. This is what I've been running for the last 3 sets on the klr. Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007 [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51bXuTuXFVL._SL1000_.jpg&t=1571810097&sig=YT48VjhpGy5C8HCX5L2YHg--~E[/img] Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007 Amazon.com: Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007: Everything Else View on www.amazon.com Preview by Yahoo  

[Fred Hink]

A Racing KLR (oxymoron) and you can call anything what you will but they are still the standard R compound.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, February 06, 2015 4:08 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fw: EBC Brakes     My mistake. Had to go to my records and check. HH's just on the 1260S Bandit. This is what I've been running for the last 3 sets on the klr.  Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007 [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51bXuTuXFVL._SL1000_.jpg&t=1571810098&sig=QJWtJa2k.GfN_2tCsLGMcg--~E[/img] Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007 Amazon.com: Ebc Race Front Brake Fits Kawasaki Klr650 1987-2007: Everything Else View on www.amazon.com Preview by Yahoo

   

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-683701310 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-683701310cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-683701310 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-683701310cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-683701310 .ygrps-yiv-683701310plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-683701310 .ygrps-yiv-683701310plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-683701310 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-683701310 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-683701310 .ygrps-yiv-683701310plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-683701310 .ygrps-yiv-683701310plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;}

[b]Subject:[/b] [b]Ursus C-45 1st start after 40 years[/b]

Check out this video on YouTube: http://youtu.be/Rxdka2igpRk