Wilsons Sandbox

  If you are already turning your oil milky I dont think you should try the 100 miles to a dealer. You could bake the engine unless you are putting it in a truck.  Pull the tank and valve cover and see if you are able to snug down any of the head bolts significantly. Dont be Hucules, if one is loose it will stand out. If one is real loose then tightening it may buy you enough to get to that dealer. Either way order the head gasket ASAP because you need to replace it before you try for Alaska. My recent experience with Kawasaki is that they arent stocking much for parts these days so get parts on the way then pull the bike apart. ---In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote : It appears I've blown a head gasket but not sure. 03 KLR is heating up, the water tank was empty (now full), the oil is milky and the bike is running hot. Any ideas what could be the problem other than a bad head gasket that would cause those symptoms? I was almost hoping for a bad water pump but the milky oil looks like a dead ringer for head gasket. On a related note, anyone familiar with the area recommend a mechanic? I'm not really set up to fix a head gasket on the road. I think there is a dealer about 100 miles east in Terrace, BC. They were closed today but I could arrange a tow to there if they can help. I'm open to suggestions. My Alaska trip is in jeopardy. 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Why do you conclude that the water in the oil is conclusive of a head gasket? (A question only)   I don't know any appearance issue which makes it possible to determine the source of coolant in the sump as it simply mixes. Most likely and simpler to check is the water pump.   The KLR water pump is driven from the sump area and sealed by an "oil seal" which is a rubber lip seal. The coolant is retained from leaking out the water pump weep hole by a mechanical carbon/ceramic seal & an "O" ring. Most likely the oil seal is leaking which allows coolant to enter the engine. IME, water pump leaks are far more common on bikes than head gasket failures.   No need to guess based on probabilities. The engine and water pump can be pressure tested separately which makes the task of localizing the leak much easier than on other vehicles.   Pull the two hoses from the water pump and apply pressure to the water pump. If the pressure leaks down, then "Bob's your uncle". If the pressure does not leak through the water pump, then pressure test the engine.   I'm a bit south of you but if you can get back to Chilliwack, I'll gladly give you a hand.   An automotive radiator pressure tester can be jigged up to test the water pump. One of the simpler ways will be to disconnect and plug the "cyl" hose running from the front water pump nipple to the engine. Also disconnect and plug the upper radiator hose from thermostat housing to radiator. This will allow the radiator's cap neck to be used to attach the pressure tester.   A bicycle pump could be jammed into a hose and used to pressurize, or Mity-vac turned around. Another trick is to drain a garden hose of water, connect to the water pump with other hose plugged, then use the water tap to pressurize the water pump with air. One can sometimes hear the air hissing inside a leaking pump but will likely have to rely on other indicators such as pressure gauge or hose losing the bulge.   The engine and water pump portion of the cooling system can reach over 60 PSI (four atmospheres) when the engine is revved up with thermostat closed so it may require significant pressure to cause the leak.   A work-around, if you can't pressure test by other means is to remove the thermostat and run with the radiator cap at the first position, not tightened down. This will remove almost pressure from the system. If the leak stops, the leak is stopped for now. This may allow you to ride the bike to a better location, such as here or a shop which can change the seal/diagnose.   Not certain if this is helpful but feel free to send a PM if you could prefer telephone, text or direct email.   Norm

Why do you conclude that the water in the oil is conclusive of a head gasket? (A question only)   I don't know any appearance issue which makes it possible to determine the source of coolant in the sump as it simply mixes. Most likely and simpler to check is the water pump.   The KLR water pump is driven from the sump area and sealed by an "oil seal" which is a rubber lip seal. The coolant is retained from leaking out the water pump weep hole by a mechanical carbon/ceramic seal & an "O" ring. Most likely the oil seal is leaking which allows coolant to enter the engine. IME, water pump leaks are far more common on bikes than head gasket failures.   No need to guess based on probabilities. The engine and water pump can be pressure tested separately which makes the task of localizing the leak much easier than on other vehicles.   Pull the two hoses from the water pump and apply pressure to the water pump. If the pressure leaks down, then "Bob's your uncle". If the pressure does not leak through the water pump, then pressure test the engine.   I'm a bit south of you but if you can get back to Chilliwack, I'll gladly give you a hand.   An automotive radiator pressure tester can be jigged up to test the water pump. One of the simpler ways will be to disconnect and plug the "cyl" hose running from the front water pump nipple to the engine. Also disconnect and plug the upper radiator hose from thermostat housing to radiator. This will allow the radiator's cap neck to be used to attach the pressure tester.   A bicycle pump could be jammed into a hose and used to pressurize, or Mity-vac turned around. Another trick is to drain a garden hose of water, connect to the water pump with other hose plugged, then use the water tap to pressurize the water pump with air. One can sometimes hear the air hissing inside a leaking pump but will likely have to rely on other indicators such as pressure gauge or hose losing the bulge.   The engine and water pump portion of the cooling system can reach over 60 PSI (four atmospheres) when the engine is revved up with thermostat closed so it may require significant pressure to cause the leak.   A work-around, if you can't pressure test by other means is to remove the thermostat and run with the radiator cap at the first position, not tightened down. This will remove almost pressure from the system. If the leak stops, the leak is stopped for now. This may allow you to ride the bike to a better location, such as here or a shop which can change the seal/diagnose.   Not certain if this is helpful but feel free to send a PM if you could prefer telephone, text or direct email.   Norm

  I agree that your problem is more likely the water pump oil seals that are bad.  There is also a weep hole in the water pump that is supposed to let out any coolant from a leaking mechanical seal before it gets to the oil seal.  If this weep hole is plugged, the mechanical seal is leaking and the oil seal leaks, then there is a good chance that coolant will end up in the oil and turn it a milky color.  Have you noticed any coolant below your waterpump?   There is also a chance if you have run into deep water that the cooling could suck in water in your engine breather hose also causing milky oil.  Have you dunked your bike recently?    Head gaskets could also allow water in to the oil but head gaskets seldom fail on their own.  Have you had the head off recently?  You would also see oil leaking out of the head gasket if the head was loose.    Did you see that your reservoir was full and then suddenly it was empty?  If you find the reservoir empty without knowing it was full, you may have lost coolant some other way.  The reservoir is a good gauge at how bad your coolant loss is.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, June 03, 2014 10:54 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: engine problems in Prince Rupert BC     Why do you conclude that the water in the oil is conclusive of a head gasket? (A question only)   I don't know any appearance issue which makes it possible to determine the source of coolant in the sump as it simply mixes. Most likely and simpler to check is the water pump.   The KLR water pump is driven from the sump area and sealed by an "oil seal" which is a rubber lip seal. The coolant is retained from leaking out the water pump weep hole by a mechanical carbon/ceramic seal & an "O" ring. Most likely the oil seal is leaking which allows coolant to enter the engine. IME, water pump leaks are far more common on bikes than head gasket failures.   No need to guess based on probabilities. The engine and water pump can be pressure tested separately which makes the task of localizing the leak much easier than on other vehicles.   Pull the two hoses from the water pump and apply pressure to the water pump. If the pressure leaks down, then "Bob's your uncle". If the pressure does not leak through the water pump, then pressure test the engine.   I'm a bit south of you but if you can get back to Chilliwack, I'll gladly give you a hand.   An automotive radiator pressure tester can be jigged up to test the water pump. One of the simpler ways will be to disconnect and plug the "cyl" hose running from the front water pump nipple to the engine. Also disconnect and plug the upper radiator hose from thermostat housing to radiator. This will allow the radiator's cap neck to be used to attach the pressure tester.   A bicycle pump could be jammed into a hose and used to pressurize, or Mity-vac turned around. Another trick is to drain a garden hose of water, connect to the water pump with other hose plugged, then use the water tap to pressurize the water pump with air. One can sometimes hear the air hissing inside a leaking pump but will likely have to rely on other indicators such as pressure gauge or hose losing the bulge.   The engine and water pump portion of the cooling system can reach over 60 PSI (four atmospheres) when the engine is revved up with thermostat closed so it may require significant pressure to cause the leak.   A work-around, if you can't pressure test by other means is to remove the thermostat and run with the radiator cap at the first position, not tightened down. This will remove almost pressure from the system. If the leak stops, the leak is stopped for now. This may allow you to ride the bike to a better location, such as here or a shop which can change the seal/diagnose.   Not certain if this is helpful but feel free to send a PM if you could prefer telephone, text or direct email.   Norm #ygrps-yiv-741910927 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 -- #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-741910927 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-741910927 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-741910927 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-741910927 #ygrps-yiv-741910927yiv8045007593 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