Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:24 am**

Hey Y'ALL It was 6 degree's F. a few days ago, gotta think about something else, AND GET READY FOR 36f+ degrees. (RIDING weather.

While I will most likely add a set of PIAA riding lights, I was reading ad's with Motorcycle head lights and, NON- DOT, (ILLEGAL) and wondered how many people ever got stopped for having brighter SAFER head lights?

State law in Mi. on trucks etc is 55watts for regular Head lights.

BY MANY STATE'S LAW'S, a motorcycle MUST have there headlights on at ALL times, for safety, so you would think, unless pointing the lights HIGH into, oncoming traffics eyes, they would NOT have an issue with the stronger bulbs.

A standard LEGAL head-lights is 55/60

Higher (SAFETY) 55/100 OR 80/100

I'm strongly thinking of installing AT LEAST the 55/100, figuring it's when I have NO on-coming traffic, that I need the High beams. (BACK COUNTRY ROADS ETC.) PLUS the PIAA for off rd.

one thought was even 1 regular PIAA AND 1 YELLOW, with a separate switch to kill the white when riding in FOG.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:35 am**

Mark, I have had "lightforce" with an HID mod on my 950 adventure and HID mod on the high and low beams as well. Never had a problem with LEO's on the high or lows but I always made sure to turn off the lightforce's when in traffic at night. Daytime I kept all of them on to try to keep the cages from pulling out in front of me. YMMV Kurt Thomas From: nomad59@... Sent: 12/ 13/ 2013 5:24 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] "IL-Legal" head lights?? Hey Y'ALL It was 6 degree's F. a few days ago, gotta think about something else, AND GET READY FOR 36f+ degrees. (RIDING weather. While I will most likely add a set of PIAA riding lights, I was reading ad's with Motorcycle head lights and, NON- DOT, (ILLEGAL) and wondered how many people ever got stopped for having brighter SAFER head lights? State law in Mi. on trucks etc is 55watts for regular Head lights. BY MANY STATE'S LAW'S, a motorcycle MUST have there headlights on at ALL times, for safety, so you would think, unless pointing the lights HIGH into, oncoming traffics eyes, they would NOT have an issue with the stronger bulbs. A standard LEGAL head-lights is 55/60 Higher (SAFETY) 55/100 OR 80/100 I'm strongly thinking of installing AT LEAST the 55/100, figuring it's when I have NO on-coming traffic, that I need the High beams. (BACK COUNTRY ROADS ETC.) PLUS the PIAA for off rd. one thought was even 1 regular PIAA AND 1 YELLOW, with a separate switch to kill the white when riding in FOG.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:07 pm**

I've never heard of anyone here in AZ getting pulled over for headlights being too bright, whether that's cars or bikes. They *will* pull you over if the headlights are too blue, or you have other non-dot colored lights on the car (IE: red up front, or those dumb washer squirter lights). Ryan Newman Phoenix, AZ mark ward wrote:

> > > Hey Y'ALL It was 6 degree's F. a few days ago, gotta think about > something else, AND GET READY FOR 36f+ degrees. (RIDING weather. > > While I will most likely add a set of PIAA riding lights, I was reading > ad's with Motorcycle head lights and, NON- DOT, (ILLEGAL) and wondered > how many people ever got stopped for having brighter SAFER head lights? > > State law in Mi. on trucks etc is 55watts for regular Head lights. > > BY MANY STATE'S LAW'S, a motorcycle MUST have there headlights on at ALL > times, for safety, so you would think, unless pointing the lights HIGH > into, oncoming traffics eyes, they would NOT have an issue with the > stronger bulbs. > > A standard LEGAL head-lights is 55/60 > > Higher (SAFETY) 55/100 OR 80/100 > > I'm strongly thinking of installing AT LEAST the 55/100, figuring it's > when I have NO on-coming traffic, that I need the High beams. (BACK > COUNTRY ROADS ETC.) PLUS the PIAA for off rd. > > one thought was even 1 regular PIAA AND 1 YELLOW, with a separate switch > to kill the white when riding in FOG. > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6418 - Release Date: 12/13/13 >

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:03 pm**

This is not aimed at you in particular, I just wanted to get this out there since I've been seeing a lot of posts on this in many forums. Please don't put HIDs in your bikes. Freeform reflectors are not designed for them; there's too much edge scatter. And while YOU can see better, oncoming traffic will be blinded by them because they're not properly contained. The subconscious, natural tendency of a blinded driver (especially a tired one) is to fixate on it and steer TOWARD the light. This is why so many head-ons occur on two-lane roads at night. I can't stress this enough. There's a reason why retrofitting HIDs into non-HID enclosures is illegal, whether they'll stop you for it or not. Vehicles that are designed for HIDs have focused projector lenses that contain the light better and keep it out of the eyes of oncoming traffic. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Desert Datsuns" To: "DSN KLR650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 4:07:14 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] "IL-Legal" head lights?? I've never heard of anyone here in AZ getting pulled over for headlights being too bright, whether that's cars or bikes. They *will* pull you over if the headlights are too blue, or you have other non-dot colored lights on the car (IE: red up front, or those dumb washer squirter lights). Ryan Newman Phoenix, AZ mark ward wrote: > > > Hey Y'ALL It was 6 degree's F. a few days ago, gotta think about > something else, AND GET READY FOR 36f+ degrees. (RIDING weather. > > While I will most likely add a set of PIAA riding lights, I was reading > ad's with Motorcycle head lights and, NON- DOT, (ILLEGAL) and wondered > how many people ever got stopped for having brighter SAFER head lights? > > State law in Mi. on trucks etc is 55watts for regular Head lights. > > BY MANY STATE'S LAW'S, a motorcycle MUST have there headlights on at ALL > times, for safety, so you would think, unless pointing the lights HIGH > into, oncoming traffics eyes, they would NOT have an issue with the > stronger bulbs. > > A standard LEGAL head-lights is 55/60 > > Higher (SAFETY) 55/100 OR 80/100 > > I'm strongly thinking of installing AT LEAST the 55/100, figuring it's > when I have NO on-coming traffic, that I need the High beams. (BACK > COUNTRY ROADS ETC.) PLUS the PIAA for off rd. > > one thought was even 1 regular PIAA AND 1 YELLOW, with a separate switch > to kill the white when riding in FOG. > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6418 - Release Date: 12/13/13 > ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:58 pm**

HID's I just read a pros & CONS about them. While they are closer to "daytime" type lighting, THEY ARE ALOT WORSE IN FOG!!!! SO they are OUT, Thanks Jeff

[b]From:[/b] Jeff Khoury [b]To:[/b] KLR650 list dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] "IL-Legal" head lights?? This is not aimed at you in particular, I just wanted to get this out there since I've been seeing a lot of posts on this in many forums. Please don't put HIDs in your bikes. Freeform reflectors are not designed for them; there's too much edge scatter. And while YOU can see better, oncoming traffic will be blinded by them because they're not properly contained. The subconscious, natural tendency of a blinded driver (especially a tired one) is to fixate on it and steer TOWARD the light. This is why so many head-ons occur on two-lane roads at night. I can't stress this enough. There's a reason why retrofitting HIDs into non-HID enclosures is illegal, whether they'll stop you for it or not. Vehicles that are designed for HIDs have focused projector lenses that contain the light better and keep it out of the eyes of oncoming traffic. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Desert Datsuns" To: "DSN KLR650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 4:07:14 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] "IL-Legal" head lights?? I've never heard of anyone here in AZ getting pulled over for headlights being too bright, whether that's cars or bikes. They *will* pull you over if the headlights are too blue, or you have other non-dot colored lights on the car (IE: red up front, or those dumb washer squirter lights). Ryan Newman Phoenix, AZ mark ward wrote: > > > Hey Y'ALL It was 6 degree's F. a few days ago, gotta think about > something else, AND GET READY FOR 36f+ degrees. (RIDING weather. > > While I will most likely add a set of PIAA riding lights, I was reading > ad's with Motorcycle head lights and, NON- DOT, (ILLEGAL) and wondered > how many people ever got stopped for having brighter SAFER head lights? > > State law in Mi. on trucks etc is 55watts for regular Head lights. > > BY MANY STATE'S LAW'S, a motorcycle MUST have there headlights on at ALL > times, for safety, so you would think, unless pointing the lights HIGH > into, oncoming traffics eyes, they would NOT have an issue with the > stronger bulbs. > > A standard LEGAL head-lights is 55/60 > > Higher (SAFETY) 55/100 OR 80/100 > > I'm strongly thinking of installing AT LEAST the 55/100, figuring it's > when I have NO on-coming traffic, that I need the High beams. (BACK > COUNTRY ROADS ETC.) PLUS the PIAA for off rd. > > one thought was even 1 regular PIAA AND 1 YELLOW, with a separate switch > to kill the white when riding in FOG. > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6418 - Release Date: 12/13/13 > ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=21 ... 24023Yahoo Groups Links

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:05 pm**

Various legal and illegal lights are rampant here but reaction seems to have changed on the part of both enforcement & general public. It used to be that any light of improper height, etc. would garner a ticket but now the criteria seems to be that it is of obviously inappropriate color or is likely to bother other traffic.

I've asked a couple of officers who stated that they are so over worked that they feel that these are issues not worth the bother because it takes them away from more important issues.

The general public used to be very touchy about dimming lights on time, misaligned headlights and such. Their reaction was an immediate flash from their high beams but following the proliferation of LED and HID as both OEM and retro fit, people seem to simply ignore anything below a super nova in their eyes.

I can't imagine that this will change and would challenge a ticket over a "silly issue" such as a not DOT light which is virtually the same as a DOT and or not reasonably expected to bother someone.

People who run purple HID and lights of that sort are simply screaming, "I want attention! Look at me! I have illegal lights!". People like this deserve a ticket, IMO.

I do wish that enforcement would ticket some infractions more diligently: yellow/amber running lights showing to rear; red, purple, blue, "some-odd-ball-bloody color, showing to front; high mounted driving lights, because these affect traffic.

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:52 pm**

Several years ago, I ran a Phillips/Osram amber 55/60W headlight in my 1st Transalp. In less than 1 week, I was: A.) Praised by a Georgia State Trooper at a routine license & insurance checkpoint for it's visibility.

and B.) Pulled over by a city policeman late one night and verbally warned within an inch of a ticket

because he could see me "coming a mile away!" (rant, rave,rant,rave...) I guess the whole thing where when an auto hits a motorcyclist and the 1st they they say

is, "I didn't see him officer", eluded him. The light was both technically illegal but "common sensely" a good idea. I agreed to swap it out for a normal bulb when I got home and was let go. Since then, I've legally run 1 normal bulb and one amber but still normal wattage bulb in a few twin headlight bikes

like my 1st V-Strom and my current Super Tenere.

I had a Chinese eBay knockoff HID set of bulbs in the 09' KLR650 and they worked fine in clear weather.

But, as previously pointed out, they were worse in fog. I also had to readjust the aim to the near limit of the lower setting just to

get low beam from burning retinas in oncoming motorists. I ended up making a 1/4 inch wide metal ring

to place inside the left bulb socket so as to shim the bulb rearward, placing the hot spot in a better position for reflectors

not made for such bulbs. Still, on a lonesome, deer-infested back road, they were 400 effective watts of neat.(actual consumption was around 70w total.)

-eddie in Ga.

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:01 pm**

This is absolutely not intended as disrespect for Jeff's post (or anyone else's). I do not agree with Jeff's position but one has only to read what he says on the subject to recognize that his opinion is worthy of attention. It is also significant to accept that the philosophical polarity of correctness does not really apply here because we lack sufficient data as to the conditions of use and experience. By the "polarity" I refer to the: "We can't both be right but we can both be wrong." There seems to be a committed minority who offer discouragement regarding the use of HID retrofit. It is always useful to hear various opinions as this helps people who are investigating the question and also offers perspective to those of us who may hold opinion. That said, I disagree with most of what was offered, based on experience in personal use of HID retrofits and having installed a "bucket full" of these on many types of vehicles. I notice no significant ill effects while riding in fog and mist but take these views on advisement and will remain watchful as to significance. This is never a bad thing, IMO. My experience has been exclusively with the 5000 K color range because other colors provide inferior lighting efficiency and the blue ones scream "these are illegal". If one uses a higher quality ballast, the current draw when completely warmed up is often in the 2.1 or 2.2 amps range which is a decided advantage for low output electrical systems such as the stock Gen1. This "frees up" a couple of amps. for other purposes such as a set of grip heaters or heated vest and also removes the load from the bike's anemic stock wiring. Unfortunately most opinions encountered on the net are by people who lack both applicable experience with the subject and/or the technical expertise to form useful opinions. This is why I respect Jeff's views because it seems obvious that he has both used and understands. The best suggestion I can offer is to buy a set and try them. They are very inexpensive off the net and simple to install as temporary in order to personally evaluate. Wishing to further expose this issue, it might be useful to reference that more yellow or more amber lighting color tends to improve the ability to see in fog or mist. I wonder if this is the basis for the less desirable experience referenced in some posts? Hoping this does not sound argumentative as interested in hearing whether this might be an effect? HID and LED lights tend to produce light within a much narrower spectrum than does an incandescent light, even a quartz halogen. This is one of the reasons for which they seem so much brighter when one has the light directly into one's eyes, for example. Taking as a given that the lighting performance of the HID experienced in fog/mist was poorer, then might some of the reason be that the reduced or lack of amber/yellow light from the HID is responsible for the poorer vision? If that is the case, then selecting a lower frequency (lower K) HID bulb might be useful. If someone has an HID install and notices a difference in vision from the stock headlight, would they volunteer to EBay a yellow HID color bulb and report on the effect? I'd be grateful as it would be interesting to have an informed impression. Swapping the bulbs is simply so it might be a very attractive summer/winter swap. I'd certainly consider trying it if were to be riding in fog or mist....maybe even carry the bulb. That said, I tend not to ride much any more and so it might not be something useful for me, given that I don't notice a problem now. I used to ride my previous KLR to and from our cottage, over a high mountain pass which was frequently in fog and mist. It is my impression that the Super 100/60 bulb and modified wiring produced more glare than did the original bulb but would not be prepared to support an assertion further in case it is not a valid representation of my experience. One can be so sure of what one wants to be true.

While we are hampered by the inability to directly compare experiences, it would be quite interesting for me were others willing to further explore this subject. Again and hoping I'm clear: not throwing rocks at anyone, especially Jeff!

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:06 pm**

I won't go 750+ words on the subject. But, here's my theory on why the HID kit in my KLR didn't do well in fog. They were right smack in the 5000k, pure white range. Fog is white and reflected light right back at me. I needed bulbs more yellow in color for those conditions, like Norm says. Which is why my current ride has one regular halogen bulb and one yellow one. I got a pair of Hella 55w H7 bulbs from Summit racing for $18.97 + shipping. http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/hella/part-type/light-bulbs/bulb-style/h7/bulb-color/yellow One replaced the right side bulb in the Super Tenere. I now have one spare regular and one spare yellow bulb. =) eddie

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:02 pm**

My experience IS...... NOT liking super bright spot lights coming AT ME. When Jeff mentioned it I remembered How I felt, each time while even looking to the right to avoid direct eye contact, I still had focusing issues after the car passed. I do not want to be a bother to others so..... PS: Hey Norm You a Lawyer or writing teacher or what? VERY well written. kind of felt like I was reading a contract. LOL

[b]From:[/b] Norm Keller [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:00 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: "IL-Legal" head lights?? This is absolutely not intended as disrespect for Jeff's post (or anyone else's). I do not agree with Jeff's position but one has only to read what he says on the subject to recognize that his opinion is worthy of attention. It is also significant to accept that the philosophical polarity of correctness does not really apply here because we lack sufficient data as to the conditions of use and experience. By the "polarity" I refer to the: "We can't both be right but we can both be wrong." There seems to be a committed minority who offer discouragement regarding the use of HID retrofit. It is always useful to hear various opinions as this helps people who are investigating the question and also offers perspective to those of us who may hold opinion. That said, I disagree with most of what was offered, based on experience in personal use of HID retrofits and having installed a "bucket full" of these on many types of vehicles. I notice no significant ill effects while riding in fog and mist but take these views on advisement and will remain watchful as to significance. This is never a bad thing, IMO. My experience has been exclusively with the 5000 K color range because other colors provide inferior lighting efficiency and the blue ones scream "these are illegal". If one uses a higher quality ballast, the current draw when completely warmed up is often in the 2.1 or 2.2 amps range which is a decided advantage for low output electrical systems such as the stock Gen1. This "frees up" a couple of amps. for other purposes such as a set of grip heaters or heated vest and also removes the load from the bike's anemic stock wiring. Unfortunately most opinions encountered on the net are by people who lack both applicable experience with the subject and/or the technical expertise to form useful opinions. This is why I respect Jeff's views because it seems obvious that he has both used and understands. The best suggestion I can offer is to buy a set and try them. They are very inexpensive off the net and simple to install as temporary in order to personally evaluate. Wishing to further expose this issue, it might be useful to reference that more yellow or more amber lighting color tends to improve the ability to see in fog or mist. I wonder if this is the basis for the less desirable experience referenced in some posts? Hoping this does not sound argumentative as interested in hearing whether this might be an effect? HID and LED lights tend to produce light within a much narrower spectrum than does an incandescent light, even a quartz halogen. This is one of the reasons for which they seem so much brighter when one has the light directly into one's eyes, for example. Taking as a given that the lighting performance of the HID experienced in fog/mist was poorer, then might some of the reason be that the reduced or lack of amber/yellow light from the HID is responsible for the poorer vision? If that is the case, then selecting a lower frequency (lower K) HID bulb might be useful. If someone has an HID install and notices a difference in vision from the stock headlight, would they volunteer to EBay a yellow HID color bulb and report on the effect? I'd be grateful as it would be interesting to have an informed impression. Swapping the bulbs is simply so it might be a very attractive summer/winter swap. I'd certainly consider trying it if were to be riding in fog or mist....maybe even carry the bulb. That said, I tend not to ride much any more and so it might not be something useful for me, given that I don't notice a problem now. I used to ride my previous KLR to and from our cottage, over a high mountain pass which was frequently in fog and mist. It is my impression that the Super 100/60 bulb and modified wiring produced more glare than did the original bulb but would not be prepared to support an assertion further in case it is not a valid representation of my experience. One can be so sure of what one wants to be true. While we are hampered by the inability to directly compare experiences, it would be quite interesting for me were others willing to further explore this subject. Again and hoping I'm clear: not throwing rocks at anyone, especially Jeff!

Wilsons Sandbox

need side covers

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??

"il-legal" head lights??