Wilsons Sandbox

Yep, reluctantly selling my bike. I'll be traveling out of the country for a while and could use the money. If your interested, you can see my Craigslist posting here: http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/mcy/2097509365.html Next year when I return, I am sure to buy another, these bikes are just too much fun! Thanks for having a look!

Hi Bryan! Missing o-rings and chain longevity don't go hand in hand. Once the sealing ability of the o-rings is lost, it probably won't take long for those links to begin to bind and kink. As for just sticking on a new chain w/o changing sprockets, I like this analogy: If you buy a $100 pair of new sneakers to replace some old, stinky ones, you wouldn't wear them over dirty socks. New chain - new sprockets. As a set, they would be a good investment. I'll let the dirt & dust riders comment on a lube to use. What you want to avoid is simply spraying on lube when the chain looks dry. You'd just be lubricating the grit already in place. {Think wet-or-dry sandpaper}. A quick rinse with WD-40 or a toothbrushing with kerosene or diesel fuel can clean a chain right up. Wipe dry with a rag, ride around the block to warm it up and then apply ____ lube. Happy trails! eddie

> [Original Message] > From: bryanonfire > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 12/8/2010 3:10:14 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings > > First, thanks to this great group in advance. I rely heavily on you for

good technical advice!

> > A couple weeks ago I got a flat rear tire. Finally getting around to

changing it yesterday, I figured I'd clean and adjust the chain, etc. while I had the wheel off. As I cleaned the chain, two small black rubber C rings fell to the cleaning area. I figured they were the right size to be former O rings from the chain, a KMC. Checking the chain, a total of eight rings are missing.

> > I haven't had a chance to ride much lately due to travel and work, so

since I last changed the chain and sprockets in June of '07, I have only put 5500 miles on the bike. I live in southern AZ where it is bone dry almost always and smokin' hot June - September, and I ride on a lot of dusty back roads. I cleaned and lubed the chain pretty regularly but it always looks dusty and gritty. No need for a chain lube thread, I have already decided on my strategy!

> > 1: Do I need to replace the chain right away for safety, or can I ride it

a while longer? It looks pretty good other than the lost rings and is well within the chain stretch limit in the Clymer manual.

> > 2: Is there a replacement chain especially suited for mixed riding in

hot, dry, dusty conditions?

> > 3: The sprockets look OK with very little wear to the teeth. Should I

replace them as well, or is it OK to I leave them on and just put on a new chain?

> > I'm not too experienced with motorcycles, this is my first one and I only

have 15,000 miles on it, so any tips and advice are welcome! I don't mind spending the money on good stuff, I just want whatever will be the most reliable.

> > Bryan > > > > ------------------------------------

Most any 0-ring chain properly maintained should last at least 10K miles.  To have o-rings coming off at 5500 miles, you have either damaged the o-rings mechanically or chemically or have run your chain too tight.  You may also have a defective chain.  You could run this chain right up to and just before it breaks, locking up the rear wheel and causing you to slide under that bus coming at you at 60mph.  If you got o-rings coming off your chain, it is telling you something.  I d pay close attention to what your chain is telling you.  Any o-ring or x-ring chain works well in dry or dusty conditions.  The chain is already lubricated inside and what you choose to lube the outside and seals with may determine how long the chain lasts.  To be absolutely safe, it is common practice to replace the sprockets when you replace the chain.  It is up to you how much risk you want to accept.  Top quality chains and sprockets are money well spent.   Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com     [b]From:[/b] bryantburke@... [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:09 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings     First, thanks to this great group in advance. I rely heavily on you for good technical advice! A couple weeks ago I got a flat rear tire. Finally getting around to changing it yesterday, I figured I'd clean and adjust the chain, etc. while I had the wheel off. As I cleaned the chain, two small black rubber C rings fell to the cleaning area. I figured they were the right size to be former O rings from the chain, a KMC. Checking the chain, a total of eight rings are missing. I haven't had a chance to ride much lately due to travel and work, so since I last changed the chain and sprockets in June of '07, I have only put 5500 miles on the bike. I live in southern AZ where it is bone dry almost always and smokin' hot June - September, and I ride on a lot of dusty back roads. I cleaned and lubed the chain pretty regularly but it always looks dusty and gritty. No need for a chain lube thread, I have already decided on my strategy! 1: Do I need to replace the chain right away for safety, or can I ride it a while longer? It looks pretty good other than the lost rings and is well within the chain stretch limit in the Clymer manual. 2: Is there a replacement chain especially suited for mixed riding in hot, dry, dusty conditions? 3: The sprockets look OK with very little wear to the teeth. Should I replace them as well, or is it OK to I leave them on and just put on a new chain? I'm not too experienced with motorcycles, this is my first one and I only have 15,000 miles on it, so any tips and advice are welcome! I don't mind spending the money on good stuff, I just want whatever will be the most reliable. Bryan

Hey Fred You said, o-ring works well in Dry, or dusty. What sould be run for all purpose? When I EXPLORE on long trips I hit mud, creeks etc., and Michigan some SNOW slush. (SALT EVERYTHING. LOL) Some "puddles" across the trail,near swampy area's, can last several weeks here. Mark (W. Mi.) 

--- On [b]Wed, 12/8/10, Fred Hink [i][/i][/b] wrote:

From: Fred Hink Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "bryanonfire" Date: Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 8:45 PM   Most any 0-ring chain properly maintained should last at least 10K miles.  To have o-rings coming off at 5500 miles, you have either damaged the o-rings mechanically or chemically or have run your chain too tight.  You may also have a defective chain.  You could run this chain right up to and just before it breaks, locking up the rear wheel and causing you to slide under that bus coming at you at 60mph.  If you got o-rings coming off your chain, it is telling you something.  I d pay close attention to what your chain is telling you.  Any o-ring or x-ring chain works well in dry or dusty conditions.  The chain is already lubricated inside and what you choose to lube the outside and seals with may determine how long the chain lasts.  To be absolutely safe, it is common practice to replace the sprockets when you replace the chain.  It is up to you how much risk you want to accept.  Top quality chains and sprockets are money well spent.   Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com     [b]From:[/b] bryanonfire [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:09 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings     First, thanks to this great group in advance. I rely heavily on you for good technical advice! A couple weeks ago I got a flat rear tire. Finally getting around to changing it yesterday, I figured I'd clean and adjust the chain, etc. while I had the wheel off. As I cleaned the chain, two small black rubber C rings fell to the cleaning area. I figured they were the right size to be former O rings from the chain, a KMC. Checking the chain, a total of eight rings are missing. I haven't had a chance to ride much lately due to travel and work, so since I last changed the chain and sprockets in June of '07, I have only put 5500 miles on the bike. I live in southern AZ where it is bone dry almost always and smokin' hot June - September, and I ride on a lot of dusty back roads. I cleaned and lubed the chain pretty regularly but it always looks dusty and gritty. No need for a chain lube thread, I have already decided on my strategy! 1: Do I need to replace the chain right away for safety, or can I ride it a while longer? It looks pretty good other than the lost rings and is well within the chain stretch limit in the Clymer manual. 2: Is there a replacement chain especially suited for mixed riding in hot, dry, dusty conditions? 3: The sprockets look OK with very little wear to the teeth. Should I replace them as well, or is it OK to I leave them on and just put on a new chain? I'm not too experienced with motorcycles, this is my first one and I only have 15,000 miles on it, so any tips and advice are welcome! I don't mind spending the money on good stuff, I just want whatever will be the most reliable. Bryan

Nothing is going to last longer than an o-ring or x-ring chain. I have had good luck with DID chains and JT or OEM sprockets. I usually get 15-20k out of a chain and set of sprockets, unless I am using 90 weight, a much better lubricant than the WD40 I usually use. With 90 weight, I have destroyed a chain and sprocket set in as little as 5000 miles: needle-sharp teeth on the cogs and rollers spitting in every direction, at which point I put my inquiry to rest, and never did look into the condition of the o-rings.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, mark ward wrote: > > Hey Fred > You said, o-ring works well in Dry, or dusty. What sould be run for all purpose? > When I EXPLORE on long trips I hit mud, creeks etc., and Michigan some SNOW slush. > (SALT EVERYTHING. LOL) > Some "puddles" across the trail,near swampy area's, can last several weeks here. > Mark (W. Mi.) > > --- On Wed, 12/8/10, Fred Hink wrote: > > > From: Fred Hink > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "bryanonfire" > Date: Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > Most any 0-ring chain properly maintained should last at least 10K miles. To have o-rings coming off at 5500 miles, you have either damaged the o-rings mechanically or chemically or have run your chain too tight. You may also have a defective chain. You could run this chain right up to and just before it breaks, locking up the rear wheel and causing you to slide under that bus coming at you at 60mph. If you got o-rings coming off your chain, it is telling you something. I d pay close attention to what your chain is telling you. Any o-ring or x-ring chain works well in dry or dusty conditions. The chain is already lubricated inside and what you choose to lube the outside and seals with may determine how long the chain lasts. To be absolutely safe, it is common practice to replace the sprockets when you replace the chain. It is up to you how much risk you want to accept. Top quality chains and sprockets are money well spent. > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > > > > > From: bryanonfire > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:09 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings > > > > First, thanks to this great group in advance. I rely heavily on you for good technical advice! > > A couple weeks ago I got a flat rear tire. Finally getting around to changing it yesterday, I figured I'd clean and adjust the chain, etc. while I had the wheel off. As I cleaned the chain, two small black rubber C rings fell to the cleaning area. I figured they were the right size to be former O rings from the chain, a KMC. Checking the chain, a total of eight rings are missing. > > I haven't had a chance to ride much lately due to travel and work, so since I last changed the chain and sprockets in June of '07, I have only put 5500 miles on the bike. I live in southern AZ where it is bone dry almost always and smokin' hot June - September, and I ride on a lot of dusty back roads. I cleaned and lubed the chain pretty regularly but it always looks dusty and gritty. No need for a chain lube thread, I have already decided on my strategy! > > 1: Do I need to replace the chain right away for safety, or can I ride it a while longer? It looks pretty good other than the lost rings and is well within the chain stretch limit in the Clymer manual. > > 2: Is there a replacement chain especially suited for mixed riding in hot, dry, dusty conditions? > > 3: The sprockets look OK with very little wear to the teeth. Should I replace them as well, or is it OK to I leave them on and just put on a new chain? > > I'm not too experienced with motorcycles, this is my first one and I only have 15,000 miles on it, so any tips and advice are welcome! I don't mind spending the money on good stuff, I just want whatever will be the most reliable. > > Bryan >

#ygrps-yiv-1589202635 p {margin:0;}Conventional wisdom says change the sprockets with the chain.  HOWEVER: Reading your post, I see the following information: * The bike hasn't been ridden much lately * The chain/sprockets only have 5,500 miles on them (about 1/4 life expectancy) * The sprockets don't show much wear * Arizona weather probably caused the failure of the o-rings Given that, I would change the chain immediately and leave the sprockets.  Why? * With broken o-rings grit is going to wear those links quickly unless you start lubing it like a non-o-ring chain * Even if you do, they will not last as long as the other links on the chain * Most sprocket wear is caused by elongating chains near the end of their serviceable life.  The chain goes and takes the sprockets with it. So, there is probably minimal wear to the sprockets right now.  If you change the chain before it dies and chews up your sprockets, you can keep them.  If you wait until the chain goes out-of-spec, replace them too. For dusty/gritty conditions, use an x-ring chain and a non-sticky lube and clean your chain regularly.  I use the factory-recommended gear oil and clean the grit off with WD.  I replaced my chain preemptively at 17,000 miles.  The chain showed little wear, even on the inside of the pins that I removed with my chain breaker.  The rear sprocket looked and measured fine.  I replaced the front sprocket because it showed some change in shape of the teeth (which makes sense because it touches the chain about 3 times more than the rear).  That was about 6,000 miles ago and everything appears to be wearing normally, which means almost imperceptibly. Actual cash value: $0.02 -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]"eddie" [b]To: [/b]"KLR650 list" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Wednesday, December 8, 2010 12:31:59 PM [b]Subject: [/b]RE: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings   Hi Bryan! Missing o-rings and chain longevity don't go hand in hand. Once the sealing ability of the o-rings is lost, it probably won't take long for those links to begin to bind and kink. As for just sticking on a new chain w/o changing sprockets, I like this analogy: If you buy a $100 pair of new sneakers to replace some old, stinky ones, you wouldn't wear them over dirty socks. New chain - new sprockets. As a set, they would be a good investment. I'll let the dirt & dust riders comment on a lube to use. What you want to avoid is simply spraying on lube when the chain looks dry. You'd just be lubricating the grit already in place. {Think wet-or-dry sandpaper}. A quick rinse with WD-40 or a toothbrushing with kerosene or diesel fuel can clean a chain right up. Wipe dry with a rag, ride around the block to warm it up and then apply ____ lube. Happy trails! eddie

> [Original Message] > From: bryanonfire > To: > Date: 12/8/2010 3:10:14 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] chain O rings > > First, thanks to this great group in advance. I rely heavily on you for

good technical advice!

> > A couple weeks ago I got a flat rear tire. Finally getting around to

changing it yesterday, I figured I'd clean and adjust the chain, etc. while I had the wheel off. As I cleaned the chain, two small black rubber C rings fell to the cleaning area. I figured they were the right size to be former O rings from the chain, a KMC. Checking the chain, a total of eight rings are missing.

> > I haven't had a chance to ride much lately due to travel and work, so

since I last changed the chain and sprockets in June of '07, I have only put 5500 miles on the bike. I live in southern AZ where it is bone dry almost always and smokin' hot June - September, and I ride on a lot of dusty back roads. I cleaned and lubed the chain pretty regularly but it always looks dusty and gritty. No need for a chain lube thread, I have already decided on my strategy!

> > 1: Do I need to replace the chain right away for safety, or can I ride it

a while longer? It looks pretty good other than the lost rings and is well within the chain stretch limit in the Clymer manual.

> > 2: Is there a replacement chain especially suited for mixed riding in

hot, dry, dusty conditions?

> > 3: The sprockets look OK with very little wear to the teeth. Should I

replace them as well, or is it OK to I leave them on and just put on a new chain?

> > I'm not too experienced with motorcycles, this is my first one and I only

have 15,000 miles on it, so any tips and advice are welcome! I don't mind spending the money on good stuff, I just want whatever will be the most reliable.

> > Bryan > > > > ------------------------------------