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bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:33 pm
by mark ward
I would want to put the old battery in and try again! GAS or OTHER Electrical ISSUE and coincidence????[img]
https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... MQ5MyQ--~E[/img]
[b]From:[/b] Daniel
[b]To:[/b]
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
[b]Sent:[/b] Wed, February 10, 2010 9:41:36 PM
[b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Bad Battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and it cranked?
Hi all,
I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should have.
Symptoms:
- With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine turned over strongly when I hit the starter
- That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't matter.
- With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started
- Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher
- Liquid level in the battery was in the right range
Eventual solution:
- New battery. Starts up just fine.
If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help.
On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM?
By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95 shipped:
http://www.tristate battery.com/ product_info. php?products_ id=977
Thanks,
Daniel
Daniel Pifko
Greatest Road Software
Greatest Road iPhone/iPod touch app for motorcyclists - find the best roads based on recommendations from other bikers
Check it out at
http://greatestroad.com
bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:50 pm
by Daniel
I don't think it's coincidence. I tried too many other things, including the old battery (charged to the extent I could) right before I ordered the new battery. No love.
Since it -was- turning over I thought it might have been gas too, but I did the following:
- took the bowl off the carb, took out and cleaned the jets and valve. --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference.
- took off the tank, took apart and cleaned the petcock valve --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference.
- sprayed starter spray into the airbox after removing the air filter --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference.
As soon as I put the new battery in it started up on the first try.
Daniel
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, mark ward wrote:
>
> I would want to put the old battery in and try again!
> GAS or OTHER Electrical ISSUE and coincidence????
>
bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:02 pm
by Jeff Saline
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:41:36 -0000 "Daniel" writes:
> Hi all,
>
> I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about
> the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should
> have.
>
> Symptoms:
>
> - With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine
> turned over strongly when I hit the starter
>
> - That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by
> itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't
> matter.
>
> - With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to
> the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started
>
> - Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed
> out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher
>
> - Liquid level in the battery was in the right range
>
> Eventual solution:
>
> - New battery. Starts up just fine.
>
> If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the
> engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had
> enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and
> starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide
> enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it
> and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help.
>
> On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube
> for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM?
>
> By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95
> shipped:
>
http://www.tristatebattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=977
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel
>
> Daniel Pifko
<><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><>
Daniel,
A fully charged battery should read 12.65 volts or better. Your battery
at 12.3 volts was only at about 65% charged. Your 11.8 volt reading was
a dead battery.
I'm gonna guess your engine wasn't turning fast enough to start. The
battery isn't needed on the older KLRs to make a spark. You don't say
what year bike you own and I'm not familiar enough with the 2008 and
later bikes to know if the ignition works the same way.
Again I'm gonna make a guess that with the new, fully charged battery
installed the difference that allowed your engine to start was cranking
speed.
I don't think you have a need for the acid overflow hose but if you
wanted to leave it on the bike I don't think it would hurt anything.
Below is a paragraph and chart I sent to the list in 2008. I got it from
a guy in Colorado who's involved with BMW airheads.
<><><><><><>
This is from Solar Today; a magazine aimed at those
"off the grid". Seems to fit with our current (and perennial) discussion
of batteries and charging systems. You do need a digital voltmeter, the
readings are at 70 degrees F and are for lead-acid batteries. You want
to wait about 15 minutes or more after charging the battery or running
the bike to allow the "surface charge" to disappate. I put this table on
a little card and keep it with the VOM.
Percent Voltage
of charge: Reading:
100% 12.63
90% 12.54
80% 12.45
70% 12.36
60% 12.27
50% 12.18
40% 12.09
30% 12.00
20% 11.91
0% 11.82
<><><><><><>
Best,
Jeff Saline
ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal
Airheads Beemer Club
www.airheads.org
The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota
75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT
.
____________________________________________________________
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bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:13 pm
by Daniel
Hi Jeff,
It's a 2008, California model.
> I'm gonna guess your engine wasn't turning fast enough to start. The
> battery isn't needed on the older KLRs to make a spark. You don't say
> what year bike you own and I'm not familiar enough with the 2008 and
> later bikes to know if the ignition works the same way.
Speed could be it. I tried bump starting it down the hill but may not have been going fast enough.
> A fully charged battery should read 12.65 volts or better. Your battery
> at 12.3 volts was only at about 65% charged. Your 11.8 volt reading was
> a dead battery.
Agreed. I'm just a little surprised that a dead battery still made the lights go on. I've had other batteries go bad (on another bike) but the bike was completely DOA and the battery was an obvious conclusion.
> Percent Voltage
> of charge: Reading:
>
> 100% 12.63
> 90% 12.54
> 80% 12.45
> 70% 12.36
> 60% 12.27
> 50% 12.18
> 40% 12.09
> 30% 12.00
> 20% 11.91
> 0% 11.82
This chart just came with my new battery. Close enough to yours to get the point:
Percent Voltage
of charge: Reading:
100% 12.80 or greater
75% 12.60
50% 12.30
20% 12.00
0% 11.80
Thanks for the help,
Daniel
bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:34 am
by Jud
You battery may not have been bad, but it was partially discharged, which triggered an anomalous condition in the start relay whereby low current somehow causes the relay to stick in the on position. Fred explained it to me once when it happened to me a few years back, but I didn't fully understand it at the time. A fresh charge on the battery set it right, and it has never happened to me again.
That said, a charge sufficient to light the lights is not necessarily enough to get those electrons spinning fast enough to start the engine. More than once I have been unable to start the bike from a weakly-charged battery, even though the horn honked and the lights lit up.
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should have.
>
> Symptoms:
>
> - With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine turned over strongly when I hit the starter
>
> - That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't matter.
>
> - With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started
>
> - Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher
>
> - Liquid level in the battery was in the right range
>
> Eventual solution:
>
> - New battery. Starts up just fine.
>
> If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help.
>
> On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM?
>
> By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95 shipped:
http://www.tristatebattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=977
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel
>
> Daniel Pifko
> Greatest Road Software
>
> Greatest Road iPhone/iPod touch app for motorcyclists - find the best roads based on recommendations from other bikers
> Check it out at
http://greatestroad.com
>
bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:59 pm
by The Reverend
A dead battery to the bike might look mighty alive to you. The KLR is
sensitive to cranking speed, so you really need a good battery to get the
bad boy to start. Even if it cranks at a seemingly good speed, you simply
need more to actually catch and run.
Couple that with ancient and outdated carb technology, and an always-on
headlight (from factory) and you have a machine that is hard on a regular
battery.
You didn't mention what your CRANKING voltage was, but I'd guess you could
desulfate the bad battery and bring it back to life, if you care. A new
Odyssey is what, $130? So it's not really worth your time etc, but if you're
nerdy enough...
-----Original Message-----
From:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel
If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not
crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to
generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the
engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it
going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help.
bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:40 am
by mark ward
