Wilsons Sandbox

Er...it is the best in the world......if....you can afford it. Key word....afford. Criz

On Mar 7, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Jud wrote:   A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > Stu, > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > The answer is: YES! > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for the operation. > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for surgeries that are required. > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > Good luck. > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > Ed >

If we want a good health care system, one that we can afford, it needs to be done through the market place. Dr. Ron Paul is one of the few people in the congress who really knows Medicine, politics and how they go together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXQbmZxWYY -- Roger Dill Innovative Financial Solutions 210-681-1848 T 866-831-4661 F www.ifsdebtpros.com

Jud, FWIW - Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland/ Labrador recently was discovered to have serious heart problems that no Canadian doctor had experience dealing with, so he went to a Miami hospital for his (successful!) operation. IF you'd like a bit more info, check out the story here: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/videos/ and click onto "Surviving Canada's Healthcare". I have several friends who've come to the Mayo Clinic here in AZ to get operations that would take a very long waiting list in Canada to get "free"...! I know that 'anecdotal' evidence is NOT the best evidence, however - here's a couple: 1. young man in Calgary went to Emergency complaining of stomach pains (2008, I believe), but left after several hours of waiting to see someone. Went home, came back, waited AGAIN, then left and went to a clinic in a nearby town where he died from a burst appendix. 2. pregnant woman went to Emergency (again in Calgary, 2009 I think) in pain from being in labor and with vaginal bleeding. Several hours without being seen she had her miscarriage in a pool of blood on the floor in Emergency. The Hospital Board has since "apologized"...? Want more? Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud" wrote: > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t.

And under that type of medicine, those people, or their families have significantly less power to pursue compensatory litigation for poor practices. I'm a proponent of cutting out BS, law suits, but to not have the option to recover, when a practice injures or kills the bread winner off the family isn't good policy. Example regarding the costs being out of control. I was grinding away at some metal clips to finish me modded KLR exhaust and got a piece of metal in my eye, very small not life or eye threatening, just irritating. I even conducted a class this weekend figuring my eye would wash itself out. Well this morning it is still there so I call for an appointment to see the Doc. The receptionist tells me this is a "loss of sight" scenario and I need to go to the local emergency room. Whhhaaaaaa..t?? I told her it wasn't near that bad and I just needed a doc to see what he can do and give me a referal if necessary. Nope, insurance dictates, I go directly to the emergency room, where it is a first come first serve bases, meaning if you are having a heart attack, get in line. I love this, I can wait a couple hours, rack up a multi-thousand dollar bill, get slated ahead of the guy with the heart attack so he dies on the floor while I get something taken care of that a PA could have done...and people wonder why the costs are so high. TK [b]From:[/b] fasteddiecopeman [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:16:46 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Jud, FWIW - Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland/ Labrador recently was discovered to have serious heart problems that no Canadian doctor had experience dealing with, so he went to a Miami hospital for his (successful! ) operation. IF you'd like a bit more info, check out the story here: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/videos/ and click onto "Surviving Canada's Healthcare". I have several friends who've come to the Mayo Clinic here in AZ to get operations that would take a very long waiting list in Canada to get "free"...! I know that 'anecdotal' evidence is NOT the best evidence, however - here's a couple: 1. young man in Calgary went to Emergency complaining of stomach pains (2008, I believe), but left after several hours of waiting to see someone. Went home, came back, waited AGAIN, then left and went to a clinic in a nearby town where he died from a burst appendix. 2. pregnant woman went to Emergency (again in Calgary, 2009 I think) in pain from being in labor and with vaginal bleeding. Several hours without being seen she had her miscarriage in a pool of blood on the floor in Emergency. The Hospital Board has since "apologized" ...? Want more? Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, "Jud" wrote: > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t.

Look, I can't stand Obama and his policies as much or more than anyone else but can we keep the politics on another forum please?   Thanks..Bob 09 KLR Red     To: fasteddiecopeman@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: klrsisfiddy@... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:59:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   And under that type of medicine, those people, or their families have significantly less power to pursue compensatory litigation for poor practices. I'm a proponent of cutting out BS, law suits, but to not have the option to recover, when a practice injures or kills the bread winner off the family isn't good policy. Example regarding the costs being out of control. I was grinding away at some metal clips to finish me modded KLR exhaust and got a piece of metal in my eye, very small not life or eye threatening, just irritating. I even conducted a class this weekend figuring my eye would wash itself out. Well this morning it is still there so I call for an appointment to see the Doc. The receptionist tells me this is a "loss of sight" scenario and I need to go to the local emergency room. Whhhaaaaaa.. t?? I told her it wasn't near that bad and I just needed a doc to see what he can do and give me a referal if necessary. Nope, insurance dictates, I go directly to the emergency room, where it is a first come first serve bases, meaning if you are having a heart attack, get in line. I love this, I can wait a couple hours, rack up a multi-thousand dollar bill, get slated ahead of the guy with the heart attack so he dies on the floor while I get something taken care of that a PA could have done...and people wonder why the costs are so high. TK [b]From:[/b] fasteddiecopeman [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:16:46 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .  

Jud, FWIW - Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland/ Labrador recently was discovered to have serious heart problems that no Canadian doctor had experience dealing with, so he went to a Miami hospital for his (successful! ) operation. IF you'd like a bit more info, check out the story here: http://www.glennbec k.com/content/ videos/ and click onto "Surviving Canada's Healthcare". I have several friends who've come to the Mayo Clinic here in AZ to get operations that would take a very long waiting list in Canada to get "free"...! I know that 'anecdotal' evidence is NOT the best evidence, however - here's a couple: 1. young man in Calgary went to Emergency complaining of stomach pains (2008, I believe), but left after several hours of waiting to see someone. Went home, came back, waited AGAIN, then left and went to a clinic in a nearby town where he died from a burst appendix. 2. pregnant woman went to Emergency (again in Calgary, 2009 I think) in pain from being in labor and with vaginal bleeding. Several hours without being seen she had her miscarriage in a pool of blood on the floor in Emergency. The Hospital Board has since "apologized" ...? Want more? Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, "Jud" wrote: > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t.

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This is politics, not about the KLR, and does not belong here. I don't wanna hear about Obummer, I didn't like the 12 or so puppets previous to him, and I don't like him either. So there. Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who didn't. "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure." -- Helen Keller

--- On [b]Mon, 3/8/10, Bob K [i][/i][/b] wrote: From: Bob K Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare... To: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 1:30 PM   Look, I can't stand Obama and his policies as much or more than anyone else but can we keep the politics on another forum please?   Thanks..Bob 09 KLR Red     To: fasteddiecopeman@ yahoo.com; DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com From: klrsisfiddy@ yahoo.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:59:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   And under that type of medicine, those people, or their families have significantly less power to pursue compensatory litigation for poor practices. I'm a proponent of cutting out BS, law suits, but to not have the option to recover, when a practice injures or kills the bread winner off the family isn't good policy. Example regarding the costs being out of control. I was grinding away at some metal clips to finish me modded KLR exhaust and got a piece of metal in my eye, very small not life or eye threatening, just irritating. I even conducted a class this weekend figuring my eye would wash itself out. Well this morning it is still there so I call for an appointment to see the Doc. The receptionist tells me this is a "loss of sight" scenario and I need to go to the local emergency room. Whhhaaaaaa.. t?? I told her it wasn't near that bad and I just needed a doc to see what he can do and give me a referal if necessary. Nope, insurance dictates, I go directly to the emergency room, where it is a first come first serve bases, meaning if you are having a heart attack, get in line. I love this, I can wait a couple hours, rack up a multi-thousand dollar bill, get slated ahead of the guy with the heart attack so he dies on the floor while I get something taken care of that a PA could have done...and people wonder why the costs are so high. TK [b]From:[/b] fasteddiecopeman [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:16:46 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Jud, FWIW - Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland/ Labrador recently was discovered to have serious heart problems that no Canadian doctor had experience dealing with, so he went to a Miami hospital for his (successful! ) operation. IF you'd like a bit more info, check out the story here: http://www.glennbec k.com/content/ videos/ and click onto "Surviving Canada's Healthcare". I have several friends who've come to the Mayo Clinic here in AZ to get operations that would take a very long waiting list in Canada to get "free"...! I know that 'anecdotal' evidence is NOT the best evidence, however - here's a couple: 1. young man in Calgary went to Emergency complaining of stomach pains (2008, I believe), but left after several hours of waiting to see someone. Went home, came back, waited AGAIN, then left and went to a clinic in a nearby town where he died from a burst appendix. 2. pregnant woman went to Emergency (again in Calgary, 2009 I think) in pain from being in labor and with vaginal bleeding. Several hours without being seen she had her miscarriage in a pool of blood on the floor in Emergency. The Hospital Board has since "apologized" ...? Want more? Ed --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, "Jud" wrote: > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t. Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.