Wilsons Sandbox

I had a thought the other day about this drug epidemic that I would like to share to see what comes back. Since the reasons for the mess all boil down to huge amounts of money being made by various gangsters and other government agencies, what about legalizing the stuff and undercutting the pushers that way? We would lose a lot of druggies, and the leverage that a lot of shadowy figures currently have would die, better for everyone. This approach was tried out some time ago in England, and it worked rather well until politics and the Puritan approach got in the way. The Netherlands has a pretty well open approach too, at least on pot, and they aren't suffering. Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". DC martin glazer wrote:

> > http://www.latimes.com:/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexdrugs30-2008aug30,0,1838709,full.story > http://www.latimes.com:/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexdrugs30-2008aug30,0,1838709,full.story> > > >From the Los Angeles Times > MEXICO UNDER SIEGE > Drug war bodies are piling up in Mexico > The heap of 11 decapitated bodies found in Yucatan shows that the > battle to control the multibillion-dollar drug trade knows no boundaries. > By Ken Ellingwood > Los Angeles Times Staff Writer > > August 30, 2008 > > MEXICO CITY The sickening discovery this week of 11 headless bodies > heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida underscored > a bitter les > > _

At 2:06 PM -0600 8/30/08, D Critchley wrote:

>Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a >mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". >DC

Yup. Want to reduce violent crime? End the "War on Drugs." Want to reduce non-violent crime? End the war on liberty. Mark

Hold on, Obama and his magic wand will soon make all the evil of the world disappear, close all off-road access to "save the planet", and give us government issued solar powered KLR's. I can't wait! R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of D Critchley Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:06 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR I had a thought the other day about this drug epidemic that I would like to share to see what comes back. Since the reasons for the mess all boil down to huge amounts of money being made by various gangsters and other government agencies, what about legalizing the stuff and undercutting the pushers that way? We would lose a lot of druggies, and the leverage that a lot of shadowy figures currently have would die, better for everyone. This approach was tried out some time ago in England, and it worked rather well until politics and the Puritan approach got in the way. The Netherlands has a pretty well open approach too, at least on pot, and they aren't suffering. Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". DC martin glazer wrote:

> > http://www.latimes.com:/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexdrugs30-2008aug30,0,1838709,full.story > http://www.latimes.com:/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexdrugs30-2008aug30,0,1838709,full.story> > > >From the Los Angeles Times > MEXICO UNDER SIEGE > Drug war bodies are piling up in Mexico > The heap of 11 decapitated bodies found in Yucatan shows that the > battle to control the multibillion-dollar drug trade knows no boundaries. > By Ken Ellingwood > Los Angeles Times Staff Writer > > August 30, 2008 > > MEXICO CITY The sickening discovery this week of 11 headless bodies > heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida underscored > a bitter les > > _

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Obama not withstanding, the problem is that people don't learn from history. Which some people say leads to us repeating the same mistakes. I say BS, it usually leads to something much, much worse.

--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Russell Scott wrote: From: Russell Scott Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: "KListeRs" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 3:58 PM Hold on, Obama and his magic wand will soon make all the evil of the world disappear, close all off-road access to "save the planet", and give us government issued solar powered KLR's. I can't wait! R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com]On Behalf Of D Critchley Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:06 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR I had a thought the other day about this drug epidemic that I would like to share to see what comes back. Since the reasons for the mess all boil down to huge amounts of money being made by various gangsters and other government agencies, what about legalizing the stuff and undercutting the pushers that way? We would lose a lot of druggies, and the leverage that a lot of shadowy figures currently have would die, better for everyone. This approach was tried out some time ago in England, and it worked rather well until politics and the Puritan approach got in the way. The Netherlands has a pretty well open approach too, at least on pot, and they aren't suffering. Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". DC martin glazer wrote: > > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story> > > >From the Los Angeles Times > MEXICO UNDER SIEGE > Drug war bodies are piling up in Mexico > The heap of 11 decapitated bodies found in Yucatan shows that the > battle to control the multibillion- dollar drug trade knows no boundaries. > By Ken Ellingwood > Los Angeles Times Staff Writer > > August 30, 2008 > > MEXICO CITY The sickening discovery this week of 11 headless bodies > heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida underscored > a bitter les > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry our Marxist school system don't teach this, and you have to read it on a KLR list. George Washington quotes: There can be no greater error than to expect, or calculate, upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard. Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder. Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light. Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. Happiness and moral duty are inseparably connected. It's wonderful what we can do if we're always doing. Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience. It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one. Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness. Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty. I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery. Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation. It is better be alone than in bad company. Bad seed is a robbery of the worst kind: for your pocket-book not only suffers by it, but your preparations are lost and a season passes away unimproved. Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence. Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable; procures success to the weak, and esteem to all. Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession. Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth. Friendship is a plant of slow growth and must undergo and withstand the shocks of adversity before it is entitled to the appellation. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War. It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it. It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. Laws made by common consent must not be trampled on by individuals. Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the rest is in the hands of God. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government. My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth. To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of grbhfng Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:33 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR Obama not withstanding, the problem is that people don't learn from history. Which some people say leads to us repeating the same mistakes. I say BS, it usually leads to something much, much worse.

--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Russell Scott wrote: From: Russell Scott Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: "KListeRs" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 3:58 PM Hold on, Obama and his magic wand will soon make all the evil of the world disappear, close all off-road access to "save the planet", and give us government issued solar powered KLR's. I can't wait! R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com]On Behalf Of D Critchley Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:06 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR I had a thought the other day about this drug epidemic that I would like to share to see what comes back. Since the reasons for the mess all boil down to huge amounts of money being made by various gangsters and other government agencies, what about legalizing the stuff and undercutting the pushers that way? We would lose a lot of druggies, and the leverage that a lot of shadowy figures currently have would die, better for everyone. This approach was tried out some time ago in England, and it worked rather well until politics and the Puritan approach got in the way. The Netherlands has a pretty well open approach too, at least on pot, and they aren't suffering. Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". DC martin glazer wrote: > > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story> > > >From the Los Angeles Times > MEXICO UNDER SIEGE > Drug war bodies are piling up in Mexico > The heap of 11 decapitated bodies found in Yucatan shows that the > battle to control the multibillion- dollar drug trade knows no boundaries. > By Ken Ellingwood > Los Angeles Times Staff Writer > > August 30, 2008 > > MEXICO CITY The sickening discovery this week of 11 headless bodies > heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida underscored > a bitter les > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, grbhfng wrote:

> > Obama not withstanding, the problem is that people don't learn from

history.

> > Which some people say leads to us repeating the same mistakes. > > I say BS, it usually leads to something much, much worse. >

Amen, the road to h3ll is paved with good intentions. The favorite "demon" of the left, the Nazis, were socialists (progressives were the American version) and began with universal healthcare, guaranteed pensions, security, gun registration, and banning of open religious displays, trumpeted as change and a "third" way. Once power was concentrated, beer, alcohol and tobacco, as well as "unhealthy" foods were banned, since this would damage the health of the "people", and they would place a burden on the state. Children were taught "corrected" traditional stories, to give allegiance to the state, and report those who engaged in activities that were against the good of the state (defined by the state, of course). Next was demonization of foreigners (deported), Jews, and religious figures (beaten and worse), gun confiscation and a eugenics program (to breed out the "bread sponges" and criminals). You probably know the rest, but the how is rarely publicized by our "enlightened, highly progressive" educational system. I'm more of a libertarian than anything else, and this is not fear- mongering, but passing on a lesson from history that shows how the apparently benign theft of personal liberty can lead to a national catastrophe and worldwide disruption. It doesn't matter who starts and continues the movement, it always ends in tyranny, civil war,and suffering. Change for its own sake is never good, and many thousands have died to prove it, and reestablish Liberty. Tony G. 2002 KLR650 A16 Fort Worth, TX

A (mercifully brief) quote from another great American general and statesman: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight D. Eisenhower --JT (whose education was anything but Marxist) To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com From: russell@... Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:57:26 -0700 Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR Sorry our Marxist school system don't teach this, and you have to read it on a KLR list. George Washington quotes: There can be no greater error than to expect, or calculate, upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard. Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder. Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light. Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. Happiness and moral duty are inseparably connected. It's wonderful what we can do if we're always doing. Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire called conscience. It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one. Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness. Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty. I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery. Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation. It is better be alone than in bad company. Bad seed is a robbery of the worst kind: for your pocket-book not only suffers by it, but your preparations are lost and a season passes away unimproved. Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence. Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable; procures success to the weak, and esteem to all. Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession. Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth. Friendship is a plant of slow growth and must undergo and withstand the shocks of adversity before it is entitled to the appellation. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War. It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it. It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. Laws made by common consent must not be trampled on by individuals. Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the rest is in the hands of God. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government. My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth. To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of grbhfng Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:33 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR Obama not withstanding, the problem is that people don't learn from history. Which some people say leads to us repeating the same mistakes. I say BS, it usually leads to something much, much worse.

--- On Sat, 8/30/08, Russell Scott wrote: From: Russell Scott Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR To: "KListeRs" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 3:58 PM Hold on, Obama and his magic wand will soon make all the evil of the world disappear, close all off-road access to "save the planet", and give us government issued solar powered KLR's. I can't wait! R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com]On Behalf Of D Critchley Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:06 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] More BAD news from Mexico NKLR I had a thought the other day about this drug epidemic that I would like to share to see what comes back. Since the reasons for the mess all boil down to huge amounts of money being made by various gangsters and other government agencies, what about legalizing the stuff and undercutting the pushers that way? We would lose a lot of druggies, and the leverage that a lot of shadowy figures currently have would die, better for everyone. This approach was tried out some time ago in England, and it worked rather well until politics and the Puritan approach got in the way. The Netherlands has a pretty well open approach too, at least on pot, and they aren't suffering. Think about it, because the "War on Drugs" is costing the taxpayers a mint, and achieving what could politely termed "dick". DC martin glazer wrote: > > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story > http://www.latimes com:/news/ nationworld/ world/la- fg-mexdrugs30- 2008aug30, 0,1838709, full.story> > > >From the Los Angeles Times > MEXICO UNDER SIEGE > Drug war bodies are piling up in Mexico > The heap of 11 decapitated bodies found in Yucatan shows that the > battle to control the multibillion- dollar drug trade knows no boundaries. > By Ken Ellingwood > Los Angeles Times Staff Writer > > August 30, 2008 > > MEXICO CITY The sickening discovery this week of 11 headless bodies > heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida underscored > a bitter les > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of ilv2wheels > The favorite "demon" of the left, the Nazis, were socialists > (progressives were the American version) and began with universal > healthcare, guaranteed pensions, security, gun registration, and > banning of open religious displays, trumpeted as change and > a "third" way.

Except the gun registration, none of that sounds bad.

> and religious figures (beaten and worse)

That's a good start.

> a eugenics program (to breed out the "bread sponges" and criminals).

Sweden didn't stop their eugenics program until '69 if I remember correctly. It's an interesting world we live in. There's no one simple thing to point to and say "that's what ails us", but I would say education is a very big factor. Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" and will happily believe whatever they're told on the 5pm news (the wonders of E85 anyone?). Another small fact is the inverse relation between an educated and thriving society and one where religion is widespread.

Reverend wrote:

> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Behalf Of ilv2wheels > > The favorite "demon" of the left, the Nazis, were socialists > > (progressives were the American version) and began with universal > > healthcare, guaranteed pensions, security, gun registration, and > > banning of open religious displays, trumpeted as change and > > a "third" way. > > Except the gun registration, none of that sounds bad. > > > and religious figures (beaten and worse) > > That's a good start. > > > a eugenics program (to breed out the "bread sponges" and criminals). > > Sweden didn't stop their eugenics program until '69 if I remember > correctly. > > It's an interesting world we live in. There's no one simple thing to point > to and say "that's what ails us", but I would say education is a very big > factor. > Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" > and will happily believe whatever they're told on the 5pm news (the > wonders > of E85 anyone?). > > Another small fact is the inverse relation between an educated and > thriving > society and one where religion is widespread. > >

Certainly not me, believing what's on the news, I am certainly no conspiracy type guy but certainly realize we hear only what others want us to hear, and maybe sometimes a breaking story which actually may be true!

Sorry, but I wasn't aware that it's the American left that takes an especially dim view of Nazis and totalitarianism. I thought there was more-or-less bipartisan agreement on the subject. And wasn't it our current president--hardly a leftist--who compared Saddam Hussein to Hitler, and Islamic terrorism to fascism? In fact, it's the American right that routinely invokes the Nazis as a scare tactic, not the left. And it's happening now. Witness the ludicrous comparisons made between Obama and Hitler by Ann Coulter, right-wing bloggers, and others on the right. Education is key; no question about it. Because the more we know, the less likely we are to be suckered in by skilled propagandists. What a propagandist hopes for, of course, is that his audience will accept a proposition--no matter how far-fetched--even though there are not logical grounds for accepting it. --JT To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: reverend@... Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:02:13 -0600 Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: More BAD news from Mexico NKLR

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of ilv2wheels > The favorite "demon" of the left, the Nazis, were socialists > (progressives were the American version) and began with universal > healthcare, guaranteed pensions, security, gun registration, and > banning of open religious displays, trumpeted as change and > a "third" way.

Except the gun registration, none of that sounds bad.

> and religious figures (beaten and worse)

That's a good start.

> a eugenics program (to breed out the "bread sponges" and criminals).

Sweden didn't stop their eugenics program until '69 if I remember correctly. It's an interesting world we live in. There's no one simple thing to point to and say "that's what ails us", but I would say education is a very big factor. Many people in the US still believe in the "sneak attack on Pearl Harbor" and will happily believe whatever they're told on the 5pm news (the wonders of E85 anyone?). Another small fact is the inverse relation between an educated and thriving society and one where religion is widespread. _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]