Wilsons Sandbox

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:39:58 -0000 "amigoride" writes:

> It's Doohickey time for my 2004. > I have both coil and tortion springs. From experience can anyone > identify a benefit for installing the newer tortion spring option? > Thanks, > Brian.

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> Brian, I see the big benefit of the torsion spring as never having to go into the engine again to check on the doohickey and spring tension. It also will keep a more constant tension and the spring only moves when the doohickey is adjusted and not during engine operation like with the coil spring. The coil spring movement is from the clearance between the doohickey and the shaft allowing the shaft to move just a very very small amount. But it does exercise the spring. A downside for some folks would be that you have to drill a hole in the inner case in the correct area and then often have to either remove a bit of metal from the back of the large starter gear leg(s) (most so far for me is 3 legs) for clearance or file a small groove in the side of the doohickey to retain the spring in the correct orientation. I've only done the groove once but when I install a torsion spring in my bike that's what I'll be doing. I had to replace the longer coil spring for the shorter one at 19,000 miles. A few months later the torsion spring became available. I bought one and have had it on the shelf for about 18 months. A few thousand more miles and I'll be ready to go in and replace the shorter spring which I'm guessing will have almost no tension. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT ____________________________________________________________ Click now for great vacation packages to beautiful Ireland! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3ms1SVRPnSdyxhfXmX3sNheE0ylZtwx2Bfa1wojZw8qZWY2Q/

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "amigoride" wrote:

>I agree with everyone! I found my self with both types of springs. I

could identify no reason not to use both the coil and the torsion springs together. They do not contact or interfere with one another at all. I guess its kinda like wearing a belt and suspenders too. I installed them when I had just a few thousand miles on my 06 KLR. I took a peek at around 20,000 miles. The chain was really sung, both springs were still really near where they started out. The slotted adjuster plate had only moved a few mm. I loosen my dohickey adjuster bolt at every other oil change and change oil between every 1500 and 1800 miles. I now have over 26,000 miles and have no intention of changing anything unless of course someone can help me to come to an understanding of some good reason to remove a spring. If I had to choose between the two I would. I believe that eventually the coil spring will not be able to function or pull any farther. At that point my torsion spring will idealy continue to tug at the dohickey. The torsion spring seems to lack energy. The coil spring seems to lack the pulling distance capacity, but has real energy. I plan to take another look at or about 35,000. I'll keep ya posted if anyone is interested. Knocksville A20

> It's Doohickey time for my 2004. > I have both coil and torsion springs. From experience can anyone > identify a benefit for installing the newer torsion spring option? > Thanks, > Brian. >

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Richard A. Butler" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "amigoride" wrote: > > >I agree with everyone! I found my self with both types of springs. I > could identify no reason not to use both the coil and the torsion > springs together. > They do not contact or interfere with one another at all. > > I guess its kinda like wearing a belt and suspenders too. > > I installed them when I had just a few thousand miles on my 06 KLR. I > took a peek at around 20,000 miles. The chain was really sung, both > springs were still really near where they started out. The slotted > adjuster plate had only moved a few mm. I loosen my dohickey adjuster > bolt at every other oil change and change oil between every 1500 and > 1800 miles. > I now have over 26,000 miles and have no intention of changing > anything unless of course someone can help me to come to an > understanding of some good reason to remove a spring. If I had to > choose between the two I would. I believe that eventually the coil > spring will not be able to function or pull any farther. At that > point my torsion spring will idealy continue to tug at the dohickey. > The torsion spring seems to lack energy. The coil spring seems to > lack the pulling distance capacity, but has real energy. I plan to > take another look at or about 35,000. I'll keep ya posted if anyone > is interested. > Knocksville A20 > > > > It's Doohickey time for my 2004. > > I have both coil and torsion springs. From experience can anyone > > identify a benefit for installing the newer torsion spring option? > > Thanks, > > Brian.

The only reason can see for not using two springs is that the engine was designed for one spring of the proper tension. Two-times the proper tension may result in too much slack removal from the balancer chain during adjustment resulting in too much tension in the chain during operation and premature wearing-out out the balancer chain and associated components. I know Mike C. has commented on this previously and expressed an opinion. If you are not experiencing and adverse symptoms or wear, I guess that is a data point in the doohickey-balancer system saga. ED

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Dobson" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Richard A. Butler" > wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "amigoride" wrote: > > > > >I agree with everyone! I found my self with both types of

springs. I

> > could identify no reason not to use both the coil and the torsion > > springs together. > > They do not contact or interfere with one another at all. > > > > I guess its kinda like wearing a belt and suspenders too. > > > > I installed them when I had just a few thousand miles on my 06

KLR. I

> > took a peek at around 20,000 miles. The chain was really sung,

both

> > springs were still really near where they started out. The

slotted

> > adjuster plate had only moved a few mm. I loosen my dohickey

adjuster

> > bolt at every other oil change and change oil between every 1500

and

> > 1800 miles. > > I now have over 26,000 miles and have no intention of changing > > anything unless of course someone can help me to come to an > > understanding of some good reason to remove a spring. If I had to > > choose between the two I would. I believe that eventually the

coil

> > spring will not be able to function or pull any farther. At that > > point my torsion spring will idealy continue to tug at the

dohickey.

> > The torsion spring seems to lack energy. The coil spring seems to > > lack the pulling distance capacity, but has real energy. I plan

to

> > take another look at or about 35,000. I'll keep ya posted if

anyone

> > is interested. > > Knocksville A20 > > > > > > > It's Doohickey time for my 2004. > > > I have both coil and torsion springs. From experience can

anyone

> > > identify a benefit for installing the newer torsion spring

option?

> > > Thanks, > > > Brian. > > The only reason can see for not using two springs is that the

engine

> was designed for one spring of the proper tension. Two-times the > proper tension may result in too much slack removal from the

balancer

> chain during adjustment resulting in too much tension in the chain > during operation and premature wearing-out out the balancer chain

and

> associated components. I know Mike C. has commented on this

previously

> and expressed an opinion. If you are not experiencing and adverse > symptoms or wear, I guess that is a data point in the > doohickey-balancer system saga. > > ED >

Two springs does not equal Two-times the proper tension. The tension would not triple if a third spring were added. One spring will always out-pull the other. I recall the biggest risk as what may occur when the coil spring reaches the end of its effective adjustnent travel. If the torsion spring continued to rotate the dohickey, the colapsed coil spring could fall into the engine , resulting in the typical damage that happens to engines that are designed to use one spring of proper tension. Yeah, I know its still silly to have both. Knocksville A20

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Richard A. Butler" > >

> Two springs does not equal Two-times the proper tension. The tension > would not triple if a third spring were added. One spring will always > out-pull the other. I recall the biggest risk as what may occur when > the coil spring reaches the end of its effective adjustnent travel. > If the torsion spring continued to rotate the dohickey, the colapsed > coil spring could fall into the engine , resulting in the typical > damage that happens to engines that are designed to use one spring of > proper tension. > Yeah, I know its still silly to have both. > Knocksville A20 >

Hi Richard, Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of how it all works. and the predictable outcome of your choices. revmaaatin. who understands, 'predictable outcomes' of people's choices, but not always why they keep making those choices

I think you need to rethink your statement. Springs in parallel are additive. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa Richard A. Butler wrote:

> Two springs does not equal Two-times the proper tension. The tension > would not triple if a third spring were added. One spring will always > out-pull the other.

Agreed. The net tip force on each spring is proportional to its springrate and amount of initial deflection. The torsion spring has been designed to have an equal torque applied to the system as the coil spring and running them both will result in 'twice' the torque on the system. This might be a great place to notice that additional preload is or isn't that bad. (I use the torsion, but preload it higher by 45 degrees of initial twist vs. the normal website photos). This adds another 50% preload, anyway. I've got 37K on the bike now and have not noted any problems. The reason that Richard might think one has less 'energy' as he puts it is that one is deflected a very short distance (the coil) over a high springrate, and the other a very long distance (the torsion) over a low springrate. He is thinking about the net springrate when he says "energy" but they both result in the same "pull" but as you can see, the torsion spring will do it over the long distance, which is the very reason it is superior for this task. With twice the pull but one being over a short distance, at some point the coil will be out of the picture anyway and only the torsion will be doing the job of pulling on the adjuster lever. Bill Watson Phoenix, AZ www.xanga.com/watt_man ---------------------

>>>I think you need to rethink your statement. Springs in parallel are

additive. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a 2006 and my oil filters come with rubber grommets front and rear. I oil everything up and install the #16156-022 Piston assembly, put the lid with o-ring back on the motor and go, after putting in the right amount of oil. My suggestion is go buy a stock filter and see if the Piston assembly fits properly. Then look how it all fits back into the motor and if it looks like it seals, then you're probably good. You may already have all of the required parts. But, I differ to those with specfic knowledge on the 2001 oil filter assembly. Don R100, A6F

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "maudibbb" wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > My 2001 KLR came from it's previous owner with a K&N oil filter. I > want to start using standard oil filters again to facilitate easier > oil changes while on the road. Looking at the part's diagram online, I > see the following parts associated with the standard oil filter: > > 16156-002 PISTON-ASSY,VALVE,BY-PASS (which includes the Piston and...) > 92136-002 VALVE > 92081-043 SPRING,PISTON > 92043-123 PIN,SPRING,2.2X13.5 > 92027-1695 COLLAR,13X20X9 > > My KLR seems to have only the metal Piston itself. What do I need to > start using the standard oil filters, the way the MC came when new? > > Thanks! >