Wilsons Sandbox

Did you remove the fuel tank during your latest service? If so, maybe the throttle cable and choke cable are not routed properly. Mike Martin, Louisville, KY --- sef156 wrote:

> At 15000km I again did my usual oil service, filter cleaning and > changed the spark plug. Now, up to this time the bike ran great, and > gave me a fuel range of about 360km on a tank. > I went for a test ride after putting everything back together, but > the bike felt a bit powerless. I also noticed that, when I shut the > throttle suddenly after hard acceleration at high revs (above about > 5000rpm) it lags severely for a second or so before returning to > normal closed throttle deceleration. Its quite difficult to describe > (especially since I'm not really english speaking) but almost feels > like the engine completely cuts out, or as if all fuel delivery or > spark is momentarily cut. It's bad enough to cause the forks to > compress, and then returns to normal. > Even worse is my fuel mileage. I now only get around 250 - 260km from > a tank of fuel before going to reserve.

____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

I have removed the tank to change the plug, then I removed it again afterwards to check the routing of the cables. I couldn't find anything wrong. Both the throttle and choke cables seem to work smoothly. --- Michael Martin wrote:

> > Did you remove the fuel tank during your latest service? If so,

maybe the

> throttle cable and choke cable are not routed properly. > > Mike Martin, > Louisville, KY > > --- sef156 wrote: > > > > At 15000km I again did my usual oil service, filter cleaning and > > changed the spark plug. Now, up to this time the bike ran great,

and

> > gave me a fuel range of about 360km on a tank. > > I went for a test ride after putting everything back together,

but

> > the bike felt a bit powerless. I also noticed that, when I shut

the

> > throttle suddenly after hard acceleration at high revs (above

about

> > 5000rpm) it lags severely for a second or so before returning to > > normal closed throttle deceleration. Its quite difficult to

describe

> > (especially since I'm not really english speaking) but almost

feels

> > like the engine completely cuts out, or as if all fuel delivery

or

> > spark is momentarily cut. It's bad enough to cause the forks to > > compress, and then returns to normal. > > Even worse is my fuel mileage. I now only get around 250 - 260km

from

> > a tank of fuel before going to reserve. > > > >

______________________________________________________________________ ______________

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >

Left too much oil in the air filter? Happens more than you think. Al A13 Ia sef156 wrote:

> I have removed the tank to change the plug, then I removed it again > afterwards to check the routing of the cables. I couldn't find > anything wrong. Both the throttle and choke cables seem to work > smoothly. >

Thanks for your response so far guys. Herewith is a list of things I already checked or did in my troubleshooting quest: 1) Cleaned and re-oiled the OE air filter (again). 2) Changed back and forth between my stock and Big Gun mufflers. 3) Backed out the pilot air screw 2 turns from the fully seated position. 4) Changed the spark plug. 5) Checked the routing of all cables to be correct. I should also mention that I initially over-filled the engine by adding 2.5 litres of oil. Later I drained some out to bring the level down to the top of the sight glass. I changed the spark plug again, fearing that it might be fouled due to possible oil burn-off from the over- filled engine. All of the above had no effect on the phenomenon as described in my original post. The bike has now done more than 18000km, so I have done more than 3000km so far trying to sort it out. It's getting kinda frustrating. Cheers. Sephton Wolmarans South Africa Horton Oliphant wrote:

> > Left too much oil in the air filter? Happens more than you think. > Al A13 Ia > > > > sef156 wrote: > > I have removed the tank to change the plug, then I removed it again > > afterwards to check the routing of the cables. I couldn't find > > anything wrong. Both the throttle and choke cables seem to work > > smoothly. > > >

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sef156" wrote:

> > Thanks for your response so far guys. > > Herewith is a list of things I already checked or did in my > troubleshooting quest: > 1) Cleaned and re-oiled the OE air filter (again). > 2) Changed back and forth between my stock and Big Gun mufflers. > 3) Backed out the pilot air screw 2 turns from the fully seated > position. > 4) Changed the spark plug. > 5) Checked the routing of all cables to be correct. >

You checked the cables. Are you sure the choke cable is operating the choke? Just because it moves at the bars doesn't mean it's working at the carb. Did you check the hoses to the carb? Including the vacuum line, the fuel line, and the vent line? Drain the float bowl? Maybe during your cleaning of the air filter, a little dirt got inside the carb? Gas tank vent line? Another angle to look into might be the brakes. Are they dragging? Is there a giant gorilla holding onto the back of your bike when you're not looking? da Vermonster (regularly mistaken for a giant gorilla)

~~~Going back and re-reading your orignal post, it sounds like you have a loss of compression. I say that as i have recently discovered that I have been riding around with a blown cylinder base gasket on my Honda Helix scooter. I had similar symptoms but with mine, it would always lose power (momentarily) when hitting an interstate on ramp, catch and all was fine, but as time marched on, the motor lost top end power and I was using oil in between the 1200 mile oil change intervals. When R&Ring the rear wheel to swap rubber recently, I found oil on the back of the motor and CVT case. After removing the air box I then found the oil on the back side of the air box and around the cylinder base. Now on your KLR it would easier to spot oil coming from the base gasket but check that area thoroughly, and check the head gasket as well. Just a thought... Jake Reddick Fla.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sef156" wrote: > > Thanks for your response so far guys. > > Herewith is a list of things I already checked or did in my > troubleshooting quest: > 1) Cleaned and re-oiled the OE air filter (again). > 2) Changed back and forth between my stock and Big Gun mufflers. > 3) Backed out the pilot air screw 2 turns from the fully seated > position. > 4) Changed the spark plug. > 5) Checked the routing of all cables to be correct. > > I should also mention that I initially over-filled the engine by adding > 2.5 litres of oil. Later I drained some out to bring the level down to > the top of the sight glass. I changed the spark plug again, fearing > that it might be fouled due to possible oil burn-off from the over- > filled engine. > > All of the above had no effect on the phenomenon as described in my > original post. > > The bike has now done more than 18000km, so I have done more than > 3000km so far trying to sort it out. It's getting kinda frustrating. > > Cheers. > Sephton Wolmarans > South Africa > > > Horton Oliphant wrote: > > > > Left too much oil in the air filter? Happens more than you think. > > Al A13 Ia > > > > > > > > sef156 wrote: > > > I have removed the tank to change the plug, then I removed it again > > > afterwards to check the routing of the cables. I couldn't find > > > anything wrong. Both the throttle and choke cables seem to work > > > smoothly. > > > > > >

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sef156" wrote:

> > Hi all, > I seem to have a problem with my A19, but just can't put my finger

on

> it. I've changed the oil and filter every 5000km, cleaned the air > filter regularly, and the valves was inspected by a dealer at

5000km

> and found to be within spec. > At 15000km I again did my usual oil service, filter cleaning and > changed the spark plug. Now, up to this time the bike ran great,

and

> gave me a fuel range of about 360km on a tank. > I went for a test ride after putting everything back together, but > the bike felt a bit powerless. I also noticed that, when I shut the > throttle suddenly after hard acceleration at high revs (above about > 5000rpm) it lags severely for a second or so before returning to > normal closed throttle deceleration. Its quite difficult to

describe

> (especially since I'm not really english speaking) but almost feels > like the engine completely cuts out, or as if all fuel delivery or > spark is momentarily cut. It's bad enough to cause the forks to > compress, and then returns to normal. > Even worse is my fuel mileage. I now only get around 250 - 260km

from

> a tank of fuel before going to reserve. > Any suggestions as to what could be the cause of this would be > greatly appreciated. > Thanks again. >

Sef, I think the key to your problem is in this line right here snip I went for a test ride after putting everything back together, but

> the bike felt a bit powerless. I also noticed that, when I shut the > throttle suddenly after hard acceleration at high revs (above about > 5000rpm) it lags severely for a second or so before returning to > normal closed throttle deceleration. Its quite difficult to

describe

> (especially since I'm not really English speaking) but almost feels > like the engine completely cuts out, or as if all fuel delivery or > spark is momentarily cut.

unsnip If everything happened just as you reported, then the problem is self- induced, i.e. you caused it or contributed to the sluggishness. 1) Check that the tank and gas cap is venting correctly 2) That the vacuum line to the petcock is not crimped; you may not be getting fuel 3) With a flash light, look at the screen in the tank at the petcock 4) On the US models, there is a screen between the air filter and the carburetor--is that clean and free of debris? 5) Do you have a fuel filter? Is it free flowing? Take it off and see if that helps. My bike will not run with a fuel filter. shrug. It caused me to go to reserve almost 100 miles early, and shortly afterward, it acted like it had no fuel in the tank, i.e. it died!-- with 2 gals remaining in the tank. 6) I would take a look at those valve clearance again. Tight valves mean that they are not open long enough to get full volumes of air/fuel into the cylinders. One indication of tight valves, they often seem to 'suddenly' tighten up, ususally indicated by stalling-- no run- when coming to a stop sign and it fails to idle. 7) Is there any chance you damaged plug or plug wire while doing your maintenance? 8) Do you have the product SEAFOAM where you live? It is a fuel additive that works wonders on 'sticky wickets' and dirty carburetors. 9) Drain the fuel bowl and catch the fluid. Did it contain any water. Do the easy ones first. smile. Again, I would suggest that if the bike was running fine before you did the maintenance, it was something you did to affect fuel or air flow. Let us know what you find out. revmaaatin. who has never ridden in South Africa or speak Afrikaans, but did ride Kaw's last Oct on South Dakota gravel roads with a South African guest worker

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote:

> > Sef, > I think the key to your problem is in this line right here > > snip > > I went for a test ride after putting everything back together, but > > the bike felt a bit powerless. I also noticed that, when I shut

the

> > throttle suddenly after hard acceleration at high revs (above

about

> > 5000rpm) it lags severely for a second or so before returning to > > normal closed throttle deceleration. Its quite difficult to > describe > > (especially since I'm not really English speaking) but almost

feels

> > like the engine completely cuts out, or as if all fuel delivery

or

> > spark is momentarily cut. > > unsnip > > If everything happened just as you reported, then the problem is

self-

> induced, i.e. you caused it or contributed to the sluggishness. > > 1) Check that the tank and gas cap is venting correctly > 2) That the vacuum line to the petcock is not crimped; you may not

be

> getting fuel > 3) With a flash light, look at the screen in the tank at the petcock > 4) On the US models, there is a screen between the air filter and

the

> carburetor--is that clean and free of debris? > 5) Do you have a fuel filter? Is it free flowing? Take it off and > see if that helps. My bike will not run with a fuel filter.

shrug.

> It caused me to go to reserve almost 100 miles early, and shortly > afterward, it acted like it had no fuel in the tank, i.e. it died!-- > with 2 gals remaining in the tank. > 6) I would take a look at those valve clearance again. Tight

valves

> mean that they are not open long enough to get full volumes of > air/fuel into the cylinders. One indication of tight valves, they > often seem to 'suddenly' tighten up, ususally indicated by stalling-

-

> no run- when coming to a stop sign and it fails to idle. > 7) Is there any chance you damaged plug or plug wire while doing

your

> maintenance? > 8) Do you have the product SEAFOAM where you live? It is a fuel > additive that works wonders on 'sticky wickets' and dirty

carburetors.

> 9) Drain the fuel bowl and catch the fluid. Did it contain any > water. > > Do the easy ones first. smile. > > Again, I would suggest that if the bike was running fine before you > did the maintenance, it was something you did to affect fuel or air > flow. > > Let us know what you find out. > > revmaaatin. who has never ridden in South Africa or speak

Afrikaans,

> but did ride Kaw's last Oct on South Dakota gravel roads with a

South

> African guest worker >

Sef, It appears that I have mis-stated #6 snip

> 6) I would take a look at those valve clearance again. Tight

valves

> > mean that they are not open long enough to get full volumes of > air/fuel into the cylinders. One indication of tight valves, they > often seem to 'suddenly' tighten up, ususally indicated by > stalling-- > no run- when coming to a stop sign and it fails to idle.

As pointed out (kindly) to me; ---If the valves are tight they'll stay open longer. Loose is shorter open time.--- ....and the point is: if the valves are to tight, the bike is not breathing right, resulting in low power, and that makes for an unhappy pilot. smile. revmaaatin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Wilson" wrote:

> ~~~Going back and re-reading your orignal post, it sounds like you > have a loss of compression. I say that as i have recently discovered > that I have been riding around with a blown cylinder base gasket on > my Honda Helix scooter.

Cylinder base gasket doesn't have any effect upon compression in a KLR 650 -- or, for that matter, in a Honda Helix. Your blown cylinder base gasket was a symptom (of excessive blow-by past the rings), not a cause. Now there *is* a case where a blown cylinder base gasket can cause loss of power -- in a two-stroke single-cylinder motor that uses crankcase vacuum on the upstroke to suck charge into the crankcase, then crankcase pressure on the downstroke to send the charge into the cylinder when the piston falls below the intake/exhaust ports. The KLR, however, isn't a two-stroke, and neither is your Helix. Now, the cylinder *head* gasket can decidedly have an effect upon compression. Check oil and see if you have water in it, and check your radiator fluid to see if you have oil in it, these are common symptoms of a cylinder head gasket gone AWOL on a water-cooled vehicle. But Suzuki DR650's had bad cylinder base gaskets for seven years before Suzuki fixed the design, and the only problem it caused was a mess as oil wept out -- didn't affect the engine power at all.