Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:48 pm**

I have an 89 klr 650 that was given to me by my friends sister. Her husband died and I dont think she even knew where he kept the title, I guess I will have to find a frame with title or something. Background: After he died it sat for 8 years. I got it running in a day but it blew smoke (blueblack) and went through oil like crazy. I took the head apart and did a valve job, still had the problem. It ran ok but burning oil was not good. valve guides looked good, so I put a different top end and different rings. the rings had been stuck. Problem: Now I let it sit for another year and It has no spark. Last fall it had very weak spark to the point it wouldn't fire but now none. The kickstand switch is bypassed, the clutch switch is also. the handlebar kill switch broke so I bypassed it too. now I must use the key to kill it. neutral light goes on. coil tested good at dealer, new plug, plug end good, lead good. New battery charged up. Questions: I cant seem to test the cdi because the plug ends are different than the manual, manual shows one plug, I have one with five wires, one with two and a single. is there another way to test the cdi with my setup? I cant find the ignition pickup coil/exciter coil, shouldn't it be located by the cdi somewhere? on my snowmobiles the exciter coil is in the magneto. Can the neutral switch not work even if the light comes on? I am going to retest all the bypassed switches and the ignition switch, look for any broken or worn wires and so on, anything else I should check that is prone to go bad? Any help greatly appreciated. kyfhoms2 _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:17 pm**

>Problem: Now I let it sit for another year and It >has no spark.

How did you determine the "no spark"?

>Last fall it

had very weak spark to the point it wouldn't fire >but now none. I suggest that you disconnect the ignition switch plug which is the black (middle) plug of the connector plugs under the wiring cover below the instruments. This will ensure that the ignition kill circuit is not active through the ignition switch. If this does not solve the no spark, and you are sure that the other safety switches are disabled, more testing is needed.

>The >kickstand switch is bypassed, the clutch switch >is also. the handlebar kill >switch broke so I bypassed it too. now I must >use the key to kill it.

Could you clarify the above since you seem to have indicated that there is no spark but the above suggests that it runs and you "must >use the key to kill it. "

>neutral light goes on.

Neutral indicator) light is not involved with the ignition excepting that the operation of the light appears to show that the switch is cycling. This may not prove that the neutral switch's effect on the ignition kill circuit is functioning correctly.

>coil tested good at dealer, new plug, plug end >good, lead good. >New battery charged up.

Battery does not affect the ignition system.

>Questions: >I cant seem to test the cdi because the plug >ends are different than the >manual, manual shows one plug, I have one >with five wires, one with two and >a single. is there another way to test the cdi >with my setup? >I cant find the ignition pickup coil/exciter coil, >shouldn't it be located >by the cdi somewhere? on my snowmobiles >the exciter coil is in the magneto.

The ignition pickup coil/exciter (also called the "trigger coil") is located in the left hand engine cover separate from the alternator stator. The alternator stator contains the 12 volt system charging coils and two separate coils which provide charging current for the ignition CDI. There are two wiring harness cables which exit the stator cover. One set has the three AC current stator wires and the two ignition circuit charge coil wires. The other cable contains a set of two wires which are the ignition "trigger coil" leads.

>Can the neutral switch not work even if the light >comes on?

The ignition system's portion can not work even though the light comes on.

>I am going to retest all the bypassed switches >and the ignition switch, look >for any broken or worn wires and so on, >anything else I should check that is >prone to go bad?

I'm going for a ride now as it is getting late. Please keep us posted as to your progress. Do you have a wiring diagram? There is a nice one which is colour coded on Mark's site. Keep in mind that the 12 volt and ignition circuits are not interdependent. Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:43 pm**

Thanks for the help Norm, Ok, to clarify a few things, I checked the spark by previously, and now, by placing the plug threads against an unpainted or scratched area on the head and turning it over. I had it running with all the kickstand switch, clutch switch and kill switch bypassed or disabled last year. By the end of the year it had weak spark, now none this year. It does not currently run. I have a nice color wiring diagram but a few wire colors seem to be different. Not sure if this ones for a newer model, I thought they would all be the same. I am hoping to get to testing tomorrow. All the bypasses, the neutral safety switch itself, the ignition switch, the harnesses coming from the left side. I still don t have a clue as to how to test the cdi. I guess test everything possible first and go from there since it s the most expensive piece of this bike at this point(assuming its not bad). Thanks, Kyfhoms2

>From: "Norm Keller" >> > >Problem: Now I let it sit for another year and It >has no spark. > >How did you determine the "no spark"? > > >Last fall it >had very weak spark to the point it wouldn't fire >but now none. > >I suggest that you disconnect the ignition switch plug which is the black >(middle) plug of the connector plugs under the wiring cover below the >instruments. This will ensure that the ignition kill circuit is not active >through the ignition switch. > >If this does not solve the no spark, and you are sure that the other safety >switches are disabled, more testing is needed. > > >The > >kickstand switch is bypassed, the clutch switch >is also. the handlebar >kill > >switch broke so I bypassed it too. now I must >use the key to kill it. > >Could you clarify the above since you seem to have indicated that there is >no spark but the above suggests that it runs and you "must >use the key to >kill it. " > > > >neutral light goes on. > >Neutral indicator) light is not involved with the ignition excepting that >the operation of the light appears to show that the switch is cycling. This >may not prove that the neutral switch's effect on the ignition kill circuit >is functioning correctly. > > >coil tested good at dealer, new plug, plug end >good, lead good. > > >New battery charged up. > >Battery does not affect the ignition system. > > >Questions: > >I cant seem to test the cdi because the plug >ends are different than the > >manual, manual shows one plug, I have one >with five wires, one with two >and > >a single. is there another way to test the cdi >with my setup? > > >I cant find the ignition pickup coil/exciter coil, >shouldn't it be >located > >by the cdi somewhere? on my snowmobiles >the exciter coil is in the >magneto. > >The ignition pickup coil/exciter (also called the "trigger coil") is >located in the left hand engine cover separate from the alternator stator. >The alternator stator contains the 12 volt system charging coils and two >separate coils which provide charging current for the ignition CDI. There >are two wiring harness cables which exit the stator cover. One set has the >three AC current stator wires and the two ignition circuit charge coil >wires. The other cable contains a set of two wires which are the ignition >"trigger coil" leads. > > >Can the neutral switch not work even if the light >comes on? > >The ignition system's portion can not work even though the light comes on. > > >I am going to retest all the bypassed switches >and the ignition switch, >look > >for any broken or worn wires and so on, >anything else I should check >that is > >prone to go bad? > > >I'm going for a ride now as it is getting late. Please keep us posted as to >your progress. Do you have a wiring diagram? There is a nice one which is >colour coded on Mark's site. > >Keep in mind that the 12 volt and ignition circuits are not interdependent. > >Norm > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

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Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:01 pm**

Unless you have a dedicated CDI tester it is most often the practice to test the unit by excluding other causes. An alternative would be to set up a test circuit by using jumpers to connect the CDI to a known good, coil and using an AC magnetic source to charge and trigger the CDI. The practical problem with this exercise is that one needs to use known good components to tweak the test circuit in order to operate. We usually do resistance tests and short circuit tests on the ignition coil, trigger coil and stator charge coil to ensure that these components are in (apparent good order). Next, try connecting a test light in place of the ignition coil and look for flashing as the engine is cranked. Flashing should indicate that the ignition circuit is charging and discharging. If there is an indication of flashing, try a known good coil. Following that I usually prefer to try by connecting another (known good) ignition coil to the no-spark bike to see if this resolves the problem. It is less preferable to try the no-spark coil on another bike because an undetected coil problem could (possibly) damage the CDI on the good bike. Having confirmed that the coil is not the problem, use a voltmeter to ensure that there is no power on any pin of the wiring harness which is connected to the ignition system. This is desirable because a shorted wire pair in the harness could introduce 12 volt power to the ignition system and so burn out the trigger coil or the CDI. If no power is detected, connect the no-spark CDI to an operating bike and check for spark. The reason for connecting the no-spark CDI to the operating system is that it is less likely that a bad CDI could damage the charge coil or pick-up coil of a good system. If the CDI appears to function on the good bike, the problem is unlikely to be in the CDI. Next, connect a voltmeter which has an analog scale to the trigger coil and check for signs of a signal. Ditto the charge coil. If a signal appears from both coils you will have to decide whether you wish to pursue the possibility of a wiring fault in the bike or try substituting a trigger coil from another bike. I guess that one of us should take the time to produce come quantitative figures in terms of output from the trigger and charge coils. It would also be interesting to develop a mock-up test procedure for the CDI. So much to do, so far from retirement.... Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:08 pm**

Also make sure you have a good batteery!

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:46 am**

Thanks again for all the help Norm, I checked all the switch bypasses today and they were fine, the dealer said that the ignition coil was within spec, but I never got to see him test it... I tested the internal coils according to the manual I got ahold of and the resistance readings(there were only two in the manual) were off, this is probably the culpret. It showed infinate for one resistance test which it shouldn't have, leading me to believe its grounded out somewhere or its internal(shot). I wish I had someone around missoula MT with a bike I could test some parts on for comparison but Ive only seen a few around... Ran out of light today so testing continues tomorrow. I will be trying most of the things you suggested. Thanks again. Kyfhoms2

>From: "Norm Keller" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: No spark troubleshooting >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:10:50 -0700 > >Unless you have a dedicated CDI tester it is most often the practice to >test the unit by excluding other causes. > >An alternative would be to set up a test circuit by using jumpers to >connect the CDI to a known good, coil and using an AC magnetic source to >charge and trigger the CDI. > >The practical problem with this exercise is that one needs to use known >good components to tweak the test circuit in order to operate. > >We usually do resistance tests and short circuit tests on the ignition >coil, trigger coil and stator charge coil to ensure that these components >are in (apparent good order). > >Next, try connecting a test light in place of the ignition coil and look >for flashing as the engine is cranked. Flashing should indicate that the >ignition circuit is charging and discharging. If there is an indication of >flashing, try a known good coil. > >Following that I usually prefer to try by connecting another (known good) >ignition coil to the no-spark bike to see if this resolves the problem. It >is less preferable to try the no-spark coil on another bike because an >undetected coil problem could (possibly) damage the CDI on the good bike. > >Having confirmed that the coil is not the problem, use a voltmeter to >ensure that there is no power on any pin of the wiring harness which is >connected to the ignition system. This is desirable because a shorted wire >pair in the harness could introduce 12 volt power to the ignition system >and so burn out the trigger coil or the CDI. > >If no power is detected, connect the no-spark CDI to an operating bike and >check for spark. The reason for connecting the no-spark CDI to the >operating system is that it is less likely that a bad CDI could damage the >charge coil or pick-up coil of a good system. > >If the CDI appears to function on the good bike, the problem is unlikely to >be in the CDI. > >Next, connect a voltmeter which has an analog scale to the trigger coil and >check for signs of a signal. > >Ditto the charge coil. > >If a signal appears from both coils you will have to decide whether you >wish to pursue the possibility of a wiring fault in the bike or try >substituting a trigger coil from another bike. > >I guess that one of us should take the time to produce come quantitative >figures in terms of output from the trigger and charge coils. It would also >be interesting to develop a mock-up test procedure for the CDI. > >So much to do, so far from retirement.... > >Norm > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

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Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:51 am**

I think it's a lot easier to buy a new ride. LOL (:-) Capt. Bob in Durham, CT. USA http://www.essexsteamtrain.com/ http://seniorbiker.blogspot.com 2006 A6F KLR Green Tires: Mefo 99 Explorers Country roads (20% dirt), dual tracks. NY State and Northern New England

----- Original Message ----- From: Norm Keller To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: No spark troubleshooting Unless you have a dedicated CDI tester it is most often the practice to test the unit by excluding other causes. An alternative would be to set up a test circuit by using jumpers to connect the CDI to a known good, coil and using an AC magnetic source to charge and trigger the CDI. The practical problem with this exercise is that one needs to use known good components to tweak the test circuit in order to operate. We usually do resistance tests and short circuit tests on the ignition coil, trigger coil and stator charge coil to ensure that these components are in (apparent good order). Next, try connecting a test light in place of the ignition coil and look for flashing as the engine is cranked. Flashing should indicate that the ignition circuit is charging and discharging. If there is an indication of flashing, try a known good coil. Following that I usually prefer to try by connecting another (known good) ignition coil to the no-spark bike to see if this resolves the problem. It is less preferable to try the no-spark coil on another bike because an undetected coil problem could (possibly) damage the CDI on the good bike. Having confirmed that the coil is not the problem, use a voltmeter to ensure that there is no power on any pin of the wiring harness which is connected to the ignition system. This is desirable because a shorted wire pair in the harness could introduce 12 volt power to the ignition system and so burn out the trigger coil or the CDI. If no power is detected, connect the no-spark CDI to an operating bike and check for spark. The reason for connecting the no-spark CDI to the operating system is that it is less likely that a bad CDI could damage the charge coil or pick-up coil of a good system. If the CDI appears to function on the good bike, the problem is unlikely to be in the CDI. Next, connect a voltmeter which has an analog scale to the trigger coil and check for signs of a signal. Ditto the charge coil. If a signal appears from both coils you will have to decide whether you wish to pursue the possibility of a wiring fault in the bike or try substituting a trigger coil from another bike. I guess that one of us should take the time to produce come quantitative figures in terms of output from the trigger and charge coils. It would also be interesting to develop a mock-up test procedure for the CDI. So much to do, so far from retirement.... Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:59 am**

Which coil has the bad reading? Charge coil (part of the stator) or trigger coil which is separate? If you need a stator it may be possible to obtain one from someone who has done a 300 watt or 400 watt upgrade. Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:46 pm**

Try BajaDesigns they may have what you need. http://www.bajadesigns.com/ https://www.bajadesigns.com/NET/mainframe2.aspx?login=YES&category=DSKS paladin_1176 wrote: Has anybody found a kit for the old KX's that make them street legal? I'm looking at a 1993 KX 250 that I want to put just enough lights on to make street legal. I don't think it'll be THAT hard, but i've been known to be wrong. Thanks Moose WVDoran Scottsdale, AZ --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wilsons Sandbox

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