Wilsons Sandbox

> > Question -- anybody done any riding around Death Valley on Gripsters? > Would you do it again, or should I just gulp, pay the $$$, and get > some TKC-80's that will mostly languish in storage for most of the > year (since I have very little vacation time in a year, and live > nowhere near any unpaved roads)? >

Never been to Death Valley but I have gone through several sets of Gripsters. Here's my take: Gripsters are OK on trails and hard pack roads that aren't too hairy. For me they're terrible on gravel but people vary as to their sensitivity to the bike sliding around under them. I feel much better with the planted sensation Kenda 270s give me on gravel. If the back roads there are mostly gravel I'd dig into my pockets and get the more aggressive tires you mention; if mostly hard dirt in moderate condition I'd stick with the Gripsters and ride a bit slower - not a bad idea anyway especially if you'll be alone. Bogdan

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bogdan Swider wrote:

> > > > > > > Question -- anybody done any riding around Death Valley on

Gripsters?

> > Would you do it again, or should I just gulp, pay the $$$, and

get

> > some TKC-80's that will mostly languish in storage for most of

the

> > year (since I have very little vacation time in a year, and live > > nowhere near any unpaved roads)? > > > Never been to Death Valley but I have gone through several sets of > Gripsters. Here's my take: Gripsters are OK on trails and hard

pack roads

> that aren't too hairy. For me they're terrible on gravel but

people vary as

> to their sensitivity to the bike sliding around under them. I feel

much

> better with the planted sensation Kenda 270s give me on gravel. If

the back

> roads there are mostly gravel I'd dig into my pockets and get the

more

> aggressive tires you mention; if mostly hard dirt in moderate

condition I'd

> stick with the Gripsters and ride a bit slower - not a bad idea

anyway

> especially if you'll be alone. > > Bogdan >

Almost all of the dirt in Death Valley is loose gravel. Sometimes 6- 8 inches deep or deeper. K270's or MT 21's work well. I would not go there and ride in the dirt with anything less agressive. Adam 04 KLR650 04 KTM450MXC

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Adam" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bogdan Swider wrote: > > > > Question -- anybody done any riding around Death Valley on > Gripsters? > Almost all of the dirt in Death Valley is loose gravel.

Yes, I am aware of that.

> Sometimes 6- > 8 inches deep or deeper. K270's or MT 21's work well. I would not > go there and ride in the dirt with anything less agressive.

I take it that you have NOT ridden there on anything less aggressive, then? Last year I went there on Kenda 761's, which are quite a bit less aggressive than Kenda 270's or MT 21's, and had no problems. Never even dropped the bike -- not once. I aired the front down to 16PSI and the back down to 18PSI, in retrospect I probably could have dropped the tires down another couple PSI but that was enough to get me everywhere, if not very quickly. I'm not concerned with going fast. I don't ride fast on gravel anyhow, I am a slow and cautious rider on anything other than clean dry pavement because I do not like pain (been there, done that, have the missing chunks out of my body to prove it, I do *not* have any desire to spend three months with every breath feeling like a stab in my chest due to broken ribs, or six weeks scrubbing raw meat of an exposed wound to prevent infection as it slowly granulates scar tissue, or any of the other painful things that I've personally experienced and have no desire to experience again). I just want to get there, I don't care if it takes me a while, and I'm wanting to know if, say, airing down the Gripsters will get me to Steel Pass (for example) safely, albeit slowly. The Gripsters are brand new and waiting in my garage for my K761's to finish wearing out their tread (they wore fast for the first 3,000 miles, now seem to have quit wearing). Having never ridden the Gripsters on anything, much less gravel, I don't know exactly how bad they are in Death Valley conditions -- deadly bad, or just normal "take your time" bad? Do you know?

Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the TKC80s and you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a great street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to getting 5K to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters. _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of E.L. Green Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 12:11 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Death Valley on Gripsters Whilst starting preparations to go to Death Valley at the end of the year, I pulled my knobbies out of storage. Ugh. These guys are done. I have a brand new set of Avon Gripsters sitting in the garage, waiting for my Kenda 761's to finish wearing out (thus far, the K761's refusing to wear out -- it wore quickly for the first 2000 miles, then seemingly quit wearing). The 761's are down to where I wouldn't want to take a 1500 mile trip on them so I'm not taking them to Death Vally (besides by that time they'll probably be ready to be changed). Way I see it, I have two choices -- trade in my old knobblies on a pare of TKC-80's, or go ahead on the Gripsters. TKC-80's because Kenda 270's (the usual recommendation) are utterly unacceptable on wet pavement, and it will be the rainy season here where I live by that time. Question -- anybody done any riding around Death Valley on Gripsters? Would you do it again, or should I just gulp, pay the $$$, and get some TKC-80's that will mostly languish in storage for most of the year (since I have very little vacation time in a year, and live nowhere near any unpaved roads)? -E [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with John but my tire of choice is the Dunlop 606. A knob tire will make riding the soft washes enjoyable rather than that gripped feeling that the bike will slide out at any time. Be sure to ride Titus Canyon and Chloride Cliffs. --Jim A-15

> Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the

TKC80s and

> you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a

great

> street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to

getting 5K

> to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters.

I couldn't agree more. I hate Slipsters. I'd much rather give up some on the street and gain more in gravel, sand and mud. I used the 606 once and loved it. I would use them all the time but they are more expensive. I have had the kenda 270's up to 95 mph on the street with no problems and 85 or so with the 606's. Currently I am running the IRC GP1's and like them as well. Probably not a good idea to lean any of these over hard on the street though. I had a buddy fall on his ass doing that right in front of mr with the kendas (which have a reputation of doing that). Broken ribs ..... emmm .....bad. All knobbies wear quick on pavement however. Criswell

On Oct 14, 2006, at 12:23 AM, Jim wrote: > I agree with John but my tire of choice is the Dunlop 606. A knob > tire will make riding the soft washes enjoyable rather than that > gripped feeling that the bike will slide out at any time. > Be sure to ride Titus Canyon and Chloride Cliffs. > --Jim > A-15 > > > Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the > TKC80s and > > you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a > great > > street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to > getting 5K > > to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With regard to your comment that all knobbies wear quickly on pavement. I have a K270 with over 3000 miles on it and the small indentation squares on the surface of the knobs are still visible. Compared to the stock Dunlop, the K270 is super durable. I would guess that the K270 will be good for 10 to 15k miles. I ride 50/50 pavement/gravel. The stock Dunlop was finished at 3000 miles. How well did the D606 hold up? Don Ronald Criswell wrote: I couldn't agree more. I hate Slipsters. I'd much rather give up some on the street and gain more in gravel, sand and mud. I used the 606 once and loved it. I would use them all the time but they are more expensive. I have had the kenda 270's up to 95 mph on the street with no problems and 85 or so with the 606's. Currently I am running the IRC GP1's and like them as well. Probably not a good idea to lean any of these over hard on the street though. I had a buddy fall on his ass doing that right in front of mr with the kendas (which have a reputation of doing that). Broken ribs ..... emmm .....bad. All knobbies wear quick on pavement however. Criswell

On Oct 14, 2006, at 12:23 AM, Jim wrote: > I agree with John but my tire of choice is the Dunlop 606. A knob > tire will make riding the soft washes enjoyable rather than that > gripped feeling that the bike will slide out at any time. > Be sure to ride Titus Canyon and Chloride Cliffs. > --Jim > A-15 > > > Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the > TKC80s and > > you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a > great > > street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to > getting 5K > > to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With D606s I usually get about 5K to a rear and just less than that on the front. The D606 is the only tire that I have used where I find that I wear the front out before the rear. I think that the wear to the front is mostly from braking with the big (320mm) rotor. As the D606 front wears I find the noise objectionable when riding straight, crank in just a bit of lean and they quiet down. Even with good earplugs and a full face Shoei the whine gets to me after 50 or so miles! I don't see this issue with TKC80s, one of the reasons I prefer them to the D606s. Running TKC80s I get about 5K to a rear and 8K or so to a front. I find the D606 to be just marginally better than the TKC80s offroad but much inferior to the TKC80s on road so the TKC80 is a better DUAL sport tire IMHO. _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don S Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 6:32 AM To: Ronald Criswell; Jim Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Death Valley on Gripsters With regard to your comment that all knobbies wear quickly on pavement. I have a K270 with over 3000 miles on it and the small indentation squares on the surface of the knobs are still visible. Compared to the stock Dunlop, the K270 is super durable. I would guess that the K270 will be good for 10 to 15k miles. I ride 50/50 pavement/gravel. The stock Dunlop was finished at 3000 miles. How well did the D606 hold up? Don Ronald Criswell sbcglobal.net> wrote: I couldn't agree more. I hate Slipsters. I'd much rather give up some on the street and gain more in gravel, sand and mud. I used the 606 once and loved it. I would use them all the time but they are more expensive. I have had the kenda 270's up to 95 mph on the street with no problems and 85 or so with the 606's. Currently I am running the IRC GP1's and like them as well. Probably not a good idea to lean any of these over hard on the street though. I had a buddy fall on his ass doing that right in front of mr with the kendas (which have a reputation of doing that). Broken ribs ..... emmm .....bad. All knobbies wear quick on pavement however. Criswell

On Oct 14, 2006, at 12:23 AM, Jim wrote: > I agree with John but my tire of choice is the Dunlop 606. A knob > tire will make riding the soft washes enjoyable rather than that > gripped feeling that the bike will slide out at any time. > Be sure to ride Titus Canyon and Chloride Cliffs. > --Jim > A-15 > > > Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the > TKC80s and > > you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a > great > > street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to > getting 5K > > to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi John. The TKC80 has several sizes that would fit a 17" rim. What size do you use? Would the 140/80 - 17 fit? The tire sure looks a lot like a D606. Don John Biccum wrote: With D606s I usually get about 5K to a rear and just less than that on the front. The D606 is the only tire that I have used where I find that I wear the front out before the rear. I think that the wear to the front is mostly from braking with the big (320mm) rotor. As the D606 front wears I find the noise objectionable when riding straight, crank in just a bit of lean and they quiet down. Even with good earplugs and a full face Shoei the whine gets to me after 50 or so miles! I don't see this issue with TKC80s, one of the reasons I prefer them to the D606s. Running TKC80s I get about 5K to a rear and 8K or so to a front. I find the D606 to be just marginally better than the TKC80s offroad but much inferior to the TKC80s on road so the TKC80 is a better DUAL sport tire IMHO. _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don S Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 6:32 AM To: Ronald Criswell; Jim Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Death Valley on Gripsters With regard to your comment that all knobbies wear quickly on pavement. I have a K270 with over 3000 miles on it and the small indentation squares on the surface of the knobs are still visible. Compared to the stock Dunlop, the K270 is super durable. I would guess that the K270 will be good for 10 to 15k miles. I ride 50/50 pavement/gravel. The stock Dunlop was finished at 3000 miles. How well did the D606 hold up? Don Ronald Criswell sbcglobal.net> wrote: I couldn't agree more. I hate Slipsters. I'd much rather give up some on the street and gain more in gravel, sand and mud. I used the 606 once and loved it. I would use them all the time but they are more expensive. I have had the kenda 270's up to 95 mph on the street with no problems and 85 or so with the 606's. Currently I am running the IRC GP1's and like them as well. Probably not a good idea to lean any of these over hard on the street though. I had a buddy fall on his ass doing that right in front of mr with the kendas (which have a reputation of doing that). Broken ribs ..... emmm .....bad. All knobbies wear quick on pavement however. Criswell

On Oct 14, 2006, at 12:23 AM, Jim wrote: > I agree with John but my tire of choice is the Dunlop 606. A knob > tire will make riding the soft washes enjoyable rather than that > gripped feeling that the bike will slide out at any time. > Be sure to ride Titus Canyon and Chloride Cliffs. > --Jim > A-15 > > > Gripsters would limit your options in Death Valley. Put on the > TKC80s and > > you will have more fun in DV. You will also be surprised at what a > great > > street tires the TKC80 prove to be. You might just get used to > getting 5K > > to a rear and 8K to a front and never go back to Gripsters. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]