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rschulte46
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 8:14 pm

wheel balancing?

Post by rschulte46 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:36 pm

Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have seen anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? I want to pull off some Dunlop 607s and put on something more 50 /50 "ish". Why is there nothing about balancing? Isn't it done on a low speed KLR? How about if you do highway with it? Capt. Bob in CT
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Gary
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:40 am

wheel balancing?

Post by Gary » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:18 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "rschulte46" wrote:
> > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them > themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have
seen
> anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? > > I want to pull off some Dunlop 607s and put on something more 50 /50 > "ish". Why is there nothing about balancing? Isn't it done on a > low speed KLR? How about if you do highway with it? > > > Capt. Bob in CT >
I balance mine a tire change, it does matter. I have a set of Mini- Balancers I got before I took a trip to Alaska, because they were so tiny and we could balance tires as long as we could find a place to throw a rope :). Here's a picture of it. ++ http://community.webshots.com/photo/396806274/1368992182071828300ptmsn D ++ I got it at ++ http://www.pbase.com/rodneff/minibalancer ++ and use peel and stick wheel weights from NAPA Auto parts. I am pretty happy with it all told, it is easy to use and quite accurate. :)
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Robert Chay
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:17 pm

wheel balancing?

Post by Robert Chay » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:22 pm

I have a Marc Parnes balancer. I balanced my wheels when I put the Mefo 99's on. I think you'd like the Mefos for the riding you do. People are getting great mileage out of them. I got my set from TPI but their prices went up a bit since I ordered them. Let me know if you want to borrow the balancer. I have some extra weights but they're the stick-on type. I reused the spoke clamp weight and put one stick on when I balanced mine. -Bobby
> -----Original Message----- > From: rschulte46 > > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed > them themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't > think I have seen anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? > > I want to pull off some Dunlop 607s and put on something more > 50 /50 "ish". Why is there nothing about balancing? Isn't > it done on a low speed KLR? How about if you do highway with it? > > > Capt. Bob in CT
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Alan L Henderson
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 9:10 am

wheel balancing?

Post by Alan L Henderson » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:40 pm

Gary wrote:
> I balance mine a tire change, it does matter. I have a set of Mini- > Balancers I got before I took a trip to Alaska, because they were so > tiny and we could balance tires as long as we could find a place to > throw a rope :). > I got it at ++ http://www.pbase.com/rodneff/minibalancer ++ and use > peel and stick wheel weights from NAPA Auto parts. >
So, can you read the number off of the bearings and tell us what it is?:) Wouldn't be hard to make with bearings, bolts, a little strap and some light weight cable. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa
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E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

wheel balancing?

Post by E.L. Green » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:51 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "rschulte46" wrote:
> > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them > themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have seen > anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? >
You haven't been looking hard. For example: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/message/156227 has a whole big discussion of wheel balancing. How to do it: Assuming the bike is hoisted off the ground on a lift, take the front brake caliper off and hang it from the handbars with a bungee to keep from stressing the brake fittings. Take the speedo cable off, and take the wheel off and remove the speedo drive. Put wheel back on its axle and spin it. Note where it comes to rest. Repeat. If it comes to rest on the same spot a second time, add a 1/4oz weight on the other side (temporarily duct tape it for now). Spin again. If the side with the 1/4oz weight ends up on the bottom, take weight off, you're done :-). Usually you'll find that, if you aligned the dot that denotes the "light spot" on the tire with the valve stem, you'll need at most 1/4 oz of weight to balance it. I find that even if I clean the rim well with brake cleaner, stick-on weights will eventually fly off with a sound like a gunshot unless I top'em with duct tape. So you might want to try the spoke-type weights if you're doing the front. I think you might need some better bearings to get to within 1/8oz, but the stock bearings work fine for getting to within 1/4oz. On the back, the process is similar, but you remove the sprocket assembly as well as the rear brake caliper. The rear typically will take much more weight to balance because the tire has a bigger cross-section and thus small changes in rubber density make a big difference in weight. The practice of putting 18" tubes is especially interesting, because it'll stretch differently every time, requiring a different weight distribution even if you're putting the same tire and tube back on. The most difficult balancing job I had was when I was prying the tire onto the rim, and one of my tire irons flew out and flew somewhere. I looked around and didn't see it, so I grabbed another iron and finished putting the tire on. Then I tried to balance it. There was one side that was really, really heavy. Too heavy. Hmm. Did I somehow manage to put the dot on the wrong side? So I popped one side of the tire back off and started spinning it on the rim... and hear something rattle. Yep, there was my missing tire iron! Lesson: It's really hard to balance a tire if you put a tire iron inside the tire :-). -E
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usa1911a1
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:13 am

wheel balancing?

Post by usa1911a1 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:48 pm

Sounds like a great idea!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan L Henderson" To: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Wheel balancing? > Gary wrote: > > I balance mine a tire change, it does matter. I have a set of Mini- > > Balancers I got before I took a trip to Alaska, because they were so > > tiny and we could balance tires as long as we could find a place to > > throw a rope :). > > I got it at ++ http://www.pbase.com/rodneff/minibalancer ++ and use > > peel and stick wheel weights from NAPA Auto parts. > > > So, can you read the number off of the bearings and tell us what it > is?:) Wouldn't be hard to make with bearings, bolts, a little strap and > some light weight cable. > Alan Henderson A13 Iowa > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
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James Morrow Sr
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:40 pm

wheel balancing?

Post by James Morrow Sr » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:32 pm

This may work, but I would never trust it. A balancer needs minimal friction. If you don't have grease in your wheel bearings, they won't work very long at speed. If you have grease in your bearings that is too much friction for accurate wheel balancing IMO. A dedicated wheel balancer with minimally lubricated bearings is what the racers use. I will stick with dedicated balancer, I get very good even long wear that way. Technically you only need to balance the wheel once and then permanently mark the heavy spot. I enjoy changing wheels and balancing, so I start from zero every time, wheel then wheel and tire (tire light spot at wheel heavy spot).
On 8/9/06, E.L. Green wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > "rschulte46" wrote: > > > > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them > > themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have seen > > anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? > > > > You haven't been looking hard. For example: > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/message/156227 > > has a whole big discussion of wheel balancing. > > How to do it: Assuming the bike is hoisted off the ground on a lift, > take the front brake caliper off and hang it from the handbars with a > bungee to keep from stressing the brake fittings. Take the speedo > cable off, and take the wheel off and remove the speedo drive. Put > wheel back on its axle and spin it. Note where it comes to rest. > Repeat. If it comes to rest on the same spot a second time, add a > 1/4oz weight on the other side (temporarily duct tape it for now). > Spin again. If the side with the 1/4oz weight ends up on the bottom, > take weight off, you're done :-). Usually you'll find that, if you > aligned the dot that denotes the "light spot" on the tire with the > valve stem, you'll need at most 1/4 oz of weight to balance it. I find > that even if I clean the rim well with brake cleaner, stick-on weights > will eventually fly off with a sound like a gunshot unless I top'em > with duct tape. So you might want to try the spoke-type weights if > you're doing the front. I think you might need some better bearings to > get to within 1/8oz, but the stock bearings work fine for getting to > within 1/4oz. > > On the back, the process is similar, but you remove the sprocket > assembly as well as the rear brake caliper. The rear typically will > take much more weight to balance because the tire has a bigger > cross-section and thus small changes in rubber density make a big > difference in weight. The practice of putting 18" tubes is especially > interesting, because it'll stretch differently every time, requiring a > different weight distribution even if you're putting the same tire and > tube back on. > > The most difficult balancing job I had was when I was prying the tire > onto the rim, and one of my tire irons flew out and flew somewhere. I > looked around and didn't see it, so I grabbed another iron and > finished putting the tire on. Then I tried to balance it. There was > one side that was really, really heavy. Too heavy. Hmm. Did I somehow > manage to put the dot on the wrong side? So I popped one side of the > tire back off and started spinning it on the rim... and hear something > rattle. > > Yep, there was my missing tire iron! > > Lesson: It's really hard to balance a tire if you put a tire iron > inside the tire :-). > > -E > > > -- James Morrow Sr Union, MO '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse '00' BUSA + 15hp '05' KLR650 + big fun factor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

wheel balancing?

Post by E.L. Green » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:47 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "James Morrow Sr" wrote:
> > This may work, but I would never trust it. A balancer needs minimal > friction. If you don't have grease in your wheel bearings, they
won't work
> very long at speed.
Well, all I can tell you is that I can balance my tires to within 1/4 oz using the stock bearings. That is, if I add a 1/4 oz weight to some random point on one of my (balanced) wheels using the method I described, the wheel will slowly rotate until that 1/4 oz weight is at the bottom of the wheel. My stock bearings have been operating just fine at speed for 32,000 miles now. I check my bearings every time I change tires to make sure they don't have too much play and that there are no rough spots. It may be that the dry climate I live in (well, during half the year!), and the fact that my bearings have never spent any time underwater, has something to do with their long life.
> friction for accurate wheel balancing IMO. A dedicated wheel
balancer with
> minimally lubricated bearings is what the racers use.
Yes, they also balance to within 1/16 oz. Given that my KLR will never see 90mph (much less the 150mph that the racers reach!), I'm going to spend my money on something else. Personally I think within 1/4 oz is fine for a KLR.
> Technically you only need to balance the wheel once and then permanently > mark the heavy spot.
Err, no. Tires have a heavy spot too, due to the mold design and how rubber is injected into the mold. Typically there will be a yellow mark opposite the heavy spot which, if you match it up with your tube's air valve, will result in a tire-wheel combo that is much better matched than if you don't use the yellow mark. Also note that since we have tube-type tires, our tubes change the balance also, especially if you are using an 18" tube in your rear tire. That tube will have heavy spots where the rubber isn't stretched as far as in other spots. I've found that if I pop one side of my tire off, pull out the tube, and put the exact same tube back in and re-inflate, my balance changes. (Yes, I did that, when testing how much work it'd be to put a new tube in while in the field).
> I enjoy changing wheels and balancing, so I start from > zero every time, wheel then wheel and tire (tire light spot at wheel
heavy
> spot).
That sounds like it would work better with tubeless tires than with tube-type tires. I find that lining up the light spot on the tire with the heavy spot on the tube (the valve) tends to work best, I rarely have to put any weight at all on the front tire when I do this because it is balanced to within 1/4 oz.
> On 8/9/06, E.L. Green wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "rschulte46" wrote: > > > > > > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them > > > themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have
seen
> > > anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? > > > > > > > You haven't been looking hard. For example: > > > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/message/156227 > > > > has a whole big discussion of wheel balancing. > > > > How to do it: Assuming the bike is hoisted off the ground on a lift, > > take the front brake caliper off and hang it from the handbars with a > > bungee to keep from stressing the brake fittings. Take the speedo > > cable off, and take the wheel off and remove the speedo drive. Put > > wheel back on its axle and spin it. Note where it comes to rest. > > Repeat. If it comes to rest on the same spot a second time, add a > > 1/4oz weight on the other side (temporarily duct tape it for now). > > Spin again. If the side with the 1/4oz weight ends up on the bottom, > > take weight off, you're done :-). Usually you'll find that, if you > > aligned the dot that denotes the "light spot" on the tire with the > > valve stem, you'll need at most 1/4 oz of weight to balance it. I find > > that even if I clean the rim well with brake cleaner, stick-on weights > > will eventually fly off with a sound like a gunshot unless I top'em > > with duct tape. So you might want to try the spoke-type weights if > > you're doing the front. I think you might need some better bearings to > > get to within 1/8oz, but the stock bearings work fine for getting to > > within 1/4oz. > > > > On the back, the process is similar, but you remove the sprocket > > assembly as well as the rear brake caliper. The rear typically will > > take much more weight to balance because the tire has a bigger > > cross-section and thus small changes in rubber density make a big > > difference in weight. The practice of putting 18" tubes is especially > > interesting, because it'll stretch differently every time, requiring a > > different weight distribution even if you're putting the same tire and > > tube back on. > > > > The most difficult balancing job I had was when I was prying the tire > > onto the rim, and one of my tire irons flew out and flew somewhere. I > > looked around and didn't see it, so I grabbed another iron and > > finished putting the tire on. Then I tried to balance it. There was > > one side that was really, really heavy. Too heavy. Hmm. Did I somehow > > manage to put the dot on the wrong side? So I popped one side of the > > tire back off and started spinning it on the rim... and hear something > > rattle. > > > > Yep, there was my missing tire iron! > > > > Lesson: It's really hard to balance a tire if you put a tire iron > > inside the tire :-). > > > > -E > > > > > > > > > > -- > James Morrow Sr > Union, MO > '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse > '00' BUSA + 15hp > '05' KLR650 + big fun factor > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
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James Morrow Sr
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:40 pm

wheel balancing?

Post by James Morrow Sr » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:20 pm

On 8/9/06, E.L. Green wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > "James Morrow Sr" > wrote: > > > > This may work, but I would never trust it. A balancer needs minimal > > friction. If you don't have grease in your wheel bearings, they > won't work > > very long at speed. > > Well, all I can tell you is that I can balance my tires to within 1/4 > oz using the stock bearings. That is, if I add a 1/4 oz weight to some > random point on one of my (balanced) wheels using the method I > described, the wheel will slowly rotate until that 1/4 oz weight is at > the bottom of the wheel. My stock bearings have been operating just > fine at speed for 32,000 miles now. I check my bearings every time I > change tires to make sure they don't have too much play and that there > are no rough spots. It may be that the dry climate I live in (well, > during half the year!), and the fact that my bearings have never spent > any time underwater, has something to do with their long life. > > > friction for accurate wheel balancing IMO. A dedicated wheel > balancer with > > minimally lubricated bearings is what the racers use. > > Yes, they also balance to within 1/16 oz. Given that my KLR will never > see 90mph (much less the 150mph that the racers reach!), I'm going to > spend my money on something else. Personally I think within 1/4 oz is > fine for a KLR. > > > Technically you only need to balance the wheel once and then permanently > > mark the heavy spot. > > Err, no. Tires have a heavy spot too, due to the mold design and how > rubber is injected into the mold. Typically there will be a yellow > mark opposite the heavy spot which, if you match it up with your > tube's air valve, will result in a tire-wheel combo that is much > better matched than if you don't use the yellow mark. Also note that > since we have tube-type tires, our tubes change the balance also, > especially if you are using an 18" tube in your rear tire. That tube > will have heavy spots where the rubber isn't stretched as far as in > other spots. I've found that if I pop one side of my tire off, pull > out the tube, and put the exact same tube back in and re-inflate, my > balance changes. (Yes, I did that, when testing how much work it'd be > to put a new tube in while in the field). > > > I enjoy changing wheels and balancing, so I start from > > zero every time, wheel then wheel and tire (tire light spot at wheel > heavy > > spot). > > That sounds like it would work better with tubeless tires than with > tube-type tires. I find that lining up the light spot on the tire with > the heavy spot on the tube (the valve) tends to work best, I rarely > have to put any weight at all on the front tire when I do this because > it is balanced to within 1/4 oz. > > > On 8/9/06, E.L. Green wrote: > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > > "rschulte46" wrote: > > > > > > > > Everyone talks a lot about tires and how they have changed them > > > > themselves under a myriad of circumstances. I don't think I have > seen > > > > anyone talk about balancing the wheel. Why? > > > > > > > > > > You haven't been looking hard. For example: > > > > > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/message/156227 > > > > > > has a whole big discussion of wheel balancing. > > > > > > How to do it: Assuming the bike is hoisted off the ground on a lift, > > > take the front brake caliper off and hang it from the handbars with a > > > bungee to keep from stressing the brake fittings. Take the speedo > > > cable off, and take the wheel off and remove the speedo drive. Put > > > wheel back on its axle and spin it. Note where it comes to rest. > > > Repeat. If it comes to rest on the same spot a second time, add a > > > 1/4oz weight on the other side (temporarily duct tape it for now). > > > Spin again. If the side with the 1/4oz weight ends up on the bottom, > > > take weight off, you're done :-). Usually you'll find that, if you > > > aligned the dot that denotes the "light spot" on the tire with the > > > valve stem, you'll need at most 1/4 oz of weight to balance it. I find > > > that even if I clean the rim well with brake cleaner, stick-on weights > > > will eventually fly off with a sound like a gunshot unless I top'em > > > with duct tape. So you might want to try the spoke-type weights if > > > you're doing the front. I think you might need some better bearings to > > > get to within 1/8oz, but the stock bearings work fine for getting to > > > within 1/4oz. > > > > > > On the back, the process is similar, but you remove the sprocket > > > assembly as well as the rear brake caliper. The rear typically will > > > take much more weight to balance because the tire has a bigger > > > cross-section and thus small changes in rubber density make a big > > > difference in weight. The practice of putting 18" tubes is especially > > > interesting, because it'll stretch differently every time, requiring a > > > different weight distribution even if you're putting the same tire and > > > tube back on. > > > > > > The most difficult balancing job I had was when I was prying the tire > > > onto the rim, and one of my tire irons flew out and flew somewhere. I > > > looked around and didn't see it, so I grabbed another iron and > > > finished putting the tire on. Then I tried to balance it. There was > > > one side that was really, really heavy. Too heavy. Hmm. Did I somehow > > > manage to put the dot on the wrong side? So I popped one side of the > > > tire back off and started spinning it on the rim... and hear something > > > rattle. > > > > > > Yep, there was my missing tire iron! > > > > > > Lesson: It's really hard to balance a tire if you put a tire iron > > > inside the tire :-). > > > > > > -E > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > James Morrow Sr > > Union, MO > > '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse > > '00' BUSA + 15hp > > '05' KLR650 + big fun factor > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > -- James Morrow Sr Union, MO '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse '00' BUSA + 15hp '05' KLR650 + big fun factor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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