Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:25 am**

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:48:22 -0000 "James" writes:

> I have notice a couple of different brands of jumper cables made > for > motorcycles. They are said to be easier to carry, have smaller > alligator > style grips, etc. > > I believe both of them are 6 feet long, and use 10 gauge wire. A > friend > of mine doubts that the 10 gauge wire is heavy enough for amps. > Perhaps > it could trickle charge the battery but probably not jump it. > > What do you guys think, and has anyone been carrying/using portable > options? > > On a similar vein, I've considered putting some wires on the > battery > posts and running it out from under the seat, permanently affixed. > The > idea is just to make jumping/charging easy to do without removing > the > seat, etc. Some jumper cables I've tried to connect are so big that > its > hard to clip them on. > > Thanks > > James > > KLR650/1997

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> James, I bought some very flexible wire from a sound shop that caters to the folks that put monster type stereos in vehicles. I don't remember the gauge of the wire but it was 10 ga I think. I picked up some smaller alligator clips at Radio Shack and carry a set of jumpers that are about 7 feet long. I've only had to use them once and they worked great. I didn't wait for the battery to charge even a little bit. Just hooked them up and pushed the starter button. This was last spring before I bought a new battery and Martin Earl was out and we wanted to go for a ride. I hadn't had the bike out for a month probably and the battery was dead. I don't think we were slowed up for more than maybe 5 minutes tops from the time I figured out the battery was dead until we were ready to go. I'd be concerned if the bike didn't start in a few seconds that the cables might get hot but for a one second load like it takes to get my KLR running it was no problem. When I jump a KLR I hook the positive jumper to the battery side of the solenoid. The negative just goes to a good ground. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:11 am**

#10 wire should be ok if only used for a few seconds at a time; hook up the jumpers, crank the engine for no more then 5 sec's, wait about 60 seconds before trying again, etc. If I recall my power calculations: P=VxA (Power = Volts x Amps) The max power allowed for #10 wire is 20 amps at 120 volts, this equals 120x20=2400watts, at 12 volts, you get: 2400 (max power)/12 volts = 200amps Everyone feel free to jump in and correct me, Denis

On 7/6/06, Jeff Saline wrote: > > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:48:22 -0000 "James" > > writes: > > I have notice a couple of different brands of jumper cables made > > for > > motorcycles. They are said to be easier to carry, have smaller > > alligator > > style grips, etc. > > > > I believe both of them are 6 feet long, and use 10 gauge wire. A > > friend > > of mine doubts that the 10 gauge wire is heavy enough for amps. > > Perhaps > > it could trickle charge the battery but probably not jump it. > > > > What do you guys think, and has anyone been carrying/using portable > > options? > > > > On a similar vein, I've considered putting some wires on the > > battery > > posts and running it out from under the seat, permanently affixed. > > The > > idea is just to make jumping/charging easy to do without removing > > the > > seat, etc. Some jumper cables I've tried to connect are so big that > > its > > hard to clip them on. > > > > Thanks > > > > James > > > > KLR650/1997 > <><><><><><><><> > <><><><><><><><> > > James, > > I bought some very flexible wire from a sound shop that caters to the > folks that put monster type stereos in vehicles. I don't remember the > gauge of the wire but it was 10 ga I think. I picked up some smaller > alligator clips at Radio Shack and carry a set of jumpers that are about > 7 feet long. I've only had to use them once and they worked great. I > didn't wait for the battery to charge even a little bit. Just hooked > them up and pushed the starter button. This was last spring before I > bought a new battery and Martin Earl was out and we wanted to go for a > ride. I hadn't had the bike out for a month probably and the battery was > dead. I don't think we were slowed up for more than maybe 5 minutes tops > from the time I figured out the battery was dead until we were ready to > go. I'd be concerned if the bike didn't start in a few seconds that the > cables might get hot but for a one second load like it takes to get my > KLR running it was no problem. > > When I jump a KLR I hook the positive jumper to the battery side of the > solenoid. The negative just goes to a good ground. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:34 am**

Jeff, Great. That's a helpfully detailed reply, and good news as well. Can you tell me more about the alligator clips that you bought? Any chance for a model number? I've noted that some alligator clips are "rated" for the amps they can carry. I'm curious to know what sort of clip/amp situation you had that good luck with. Best regards, James KLR650/1997/California Jeff Saline wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:48:22 -0000 "James" writes: > > >>I have notice a couple of different brands of jumper cables made >>for >>motorcycles. They are said to be easier to carry, have smaller >>alligator >>style grips, etc. >> >>I believe both of them are 6 feet long, and use 10 gauge wire. A >>friend >>of mine doubts that the 10 gauge wire is heavy enough for amps. >>Perhaps >>it could trickle charge the battery but probably not jump it. >> >>What do you guys think, and has anyone been carrying/using portable >>options? >> >>On a similar vein, I've considered putting some wires on the >>battery >>posts and running it out from under the seat, permanently affixed. >>The >>idea is just to make jumping/charging easy to do without removing >>the >>seat, etc. Some jumper cables I've tried to connect are so big that >>its >>hard to clip them on. >> >>Thanks >> >>James >> >>KLR650/1997 >> >> ><><><><><><><><> ><><><><><><><><> > >James, > >I bought some very flexible wire from a sound shop that caters to the >folks that put monster type stereos in vehicles. I don't remember the >gauge of the wire but it was 10 ga I think. I picked up some smaller >alligator clips at Radio Shack and carry a set of jumpers that are about >7 feet long. I've only had to use them once and they worked great. I >didn't wait for the battery to charge even a little bit. Just hooked >them up and pushed the starter button. This was last spring before I >bought a new battery and Martin Earl was out and we wanted to go for a >ride. I hadn't had the bike out for a month probably and the battery was >dead. I don't think we were slowed up for more than maybe 5 minutes tops >from the time I figured out the battery was dead until we were ready to >go. I'd be concerned if the bike didn't start in a few seconds that the >cables might get hot but for a one second load like it takes to get my >KLR running it was no problem. > >When I jump a KLR I hook the positive jumper to the battery side of the >solenoid. The negative just goes to a good ground. > >Best, > >Jeff Saline >ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org >The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:11 am**

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Dimick" wrote:

> > #10 wire should be ok if only used for a few seconds at a time;

hook up the

> jumpers, crank the engine for no more then 5 sec's, wait about 60

seconds

> before trying again, etc. > > If I recall my power calculations: P=VxA (Power = Volts x Amps) > > The max power allowed for #10 wire is 20 amps at 120 volts, this

equals

> 120x20=2400watts, at 12 volts, you get: 2400 (max power)/12 volts =

200amps

> > Everyone feel free to jump in and correct me, > > Denis >

Hi Dennis, The math I understand, (understand it as much as I understand the hillbilly formula of, eMr hogs or eMr snakes) but how did you determine that the wire at max load would be safe for 5 sec's and not 4 or 10 sec's? Why not go to an 8-gauge wire and have a safety margin? Doesn't most code require you to carry ~70% of max expected load instead of full load? Just curious (again). revmaaatin. electrikery challenged, but always curious. Looking at the math again, it would seem that you would not ever want to use a battery that was over 200a? I seem to remember that using a car battery was considered OK to jump start the KLR....would that be true of false?

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:54 am**

I came up with the 5 sec's from just my personal rule of not wanting to overheat the starter motor. As for going with #8, sure you could, it wouldn't hurt anything, bigger is better, but the original post was asking about the smallest wire size that could be used to jump start a KLR. While 70% of rated load is correct, it's normally for wire used in an enclosed system, say house wiring. You don't need to worry about taking the load to 100% or higher for a short period of time. (disclaimer - if you take the load over too far, you will melt the wires). When jumping a car or a bike, the amount of amperage drawn by the engine should remain the same (while cranking), so using a car battery is OK, the markings are normally in "cold cranking amps," this is the max amperage the battery will put out for a short period of time, a much larger number then a KLR is going to require while cranking. HtH, Denis

On 7/6/06, revmaaatin wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "Denis > Dimick" > > wrote: > > > > #10 wire should be ok if only used for a few seconds at a time; > hook up the > > jumpers, crank the engine for no more then 5 sec's, wait about 60 > seconds > > before trying again, etc. > > > > If I recall my power calculations: P=VxA (Power = Volts x Amps) > > > > The max power allowed for #10 wire is 20 amps at 120 volts, this > equals > > 120x20=2400watts, at 12 volts, you get: 2400 (max power)/12 volts = > 200amps > > > > Everyone feel free to jump in and correct me, > > > > Denis > > > Hi Dennis, > The math I understand, (understand it as much as I understand the > hillbilly formula of, eMr hogs or eMr snakes) but how did you > determine that the wire at max load would be safe for 5 sec's and not > 4 or 10 sec's? > > Why not go to an 8-gauge wire and have a safety margin? Doesn't most > code require you to carry ~70% of max expected load instead of full > load? > > Just curious (again). > > revmaaatin. electrikery challenged, but always curious. > > Looking at the math again, it would seem that you would not ever want > to use a battery that was over 200a? I seem to remember that using a > car battery was considered OK to jump start the KLR....would that be > true of false? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:48 pm**

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 07:41:32 -0700 James Cook writes:

> > Jeff, > > Great. That's a helpfully detailed reply, and good news as well. > > Can you tell me more about the alligator clips that you bought? > Any chance for a model number? I've noted that some alligator clips > are > "rated" for the amps they can carry. I'm curious to know what sort > of > clip/amp situation you had that good luck with. > > Best regards, > James > KLR650/1997/California

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> James, I took a look at the clamps I'm using and also took a few measurements. The clamps are made in Hong Kong. They are 3" long, 7/16" wide, open 7/8", the pivot to tip is 1 1/4". I looked them up in my Radio Shack catalog and it looks like they are rated at 10 amps but the description says they are only 2 1/4" long. Radio Shack part number is #270-344. I checked the wire I'm using too. It is 10 AWG. I used one section of red and one of black. I keep them together by putting heat shrink tubing about 2" long every foot or so. I made the clothe case for them and it's about 5" by 8" or so and has a flap secured with Velcro. Someone or ones was/were asking about a fuse in jumper cables. I'd guess it would have to be probably 100 amps and a slow blow type for the KLR. It's not needed. Instead of using a fuse folks should use their heads. If the current isn't very high you can crank longer. If the current is high then crank for shorter periods of time. As for the battery to use to jump the KLR. It could be a 10,000 amp battery. The vehicle being jumped will only take as much current as it needs. What is important is the voltage. I suggest if folks are jumping a vehicle the engine and electrical equipment in both vehicles be turned off. Then hook up the jumper cables and start the vehicle with the dead battery. After the cables are disconnected the vehicle with the good battery can be started. This should prevent most electrical problems with computer controlled systems or delicate electronic systems. The battery in the good vehicle should have no problem starting the vehicle with the dead battery if that's all that's wrong. And it really shouldn't have any trouble starting the vehicle it's in afterwards. I've been doing this for over 30 years with never a problem. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Posted: **Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:16 pm**

Denis Dimick wrote:

> #10 wire should be ok if only used for a few seconds at a time; hook up the > jumpers, crank the engine for no more then 5 sec's, wait about 60 seconds > before trying again, etc. > > If I recall my power calculations: P=VxA (Power = Volts x Amps) > > The max power allowed for #10 wire is 20 amps at 120 volts, this equals > 120x20=2400watts, at 12 volts, you get: 2400 (max power)/12 volts = 200amps > > Everyone feel free to jump in and correct me,

10 gauge copper wire is good for 30 amps. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa

Posted: **Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:53 pm**

Wire Gauge - Ampacities The following information may have errors; It is not permissible to be read or used by anyone who has ever met a lawyer. Use is also confined to Engineers with more than 370 course hours of electronic engineering and should only be used for theoretical studies. AWG American Wire Gauge (AWG) Diameters )=.005 92^((36-AWG)/39) inch. Load Carrying Capacities or ampacities In part from /Reference Data for Engineers: Radio, Electronics, Computer and Communications 7th Ed/ Max ambient 60C AWG Dia Inch Cir Mil Dia cm Area Inch^2 lb/kft ohms /kft Ohms /km CU Max free-air Amps CU Max enclosed Amps 12 0.081 6,529.9 0.205 5.129E-03 19.77 1.932 6.336 41 23 10 0.102 10,383.0 0.259 8.155E-03 31.43 1.215 3.985 55 33 8 0.128 16,509.7 0.326 1.297E-02 49.98 0.764 2.506 73 46 6 0.162 26,251.4 0.412 2.062E-02 79.46 0.481 1.576 101 60 4 0.204 41,741.3 0.519 3.278E-02 126.35 0.302 0.991 135 80 2 0.258 66,371.3 0.654 5.213E-02 200.91 0.190 0.623 181 100 1 0.289 83,692.7 0.735 6.573E-02 253.34 0.151 0.494 211 125 0 0.325 105,534.5 0.825 8.289E-02 319.46 0.120 0.392 245 150 00 0.365 133,076.5 0.927 1.045E-01 402.83 0.095 0.311 283 175 000 0.410 167,806.4 1.040 1.318E-01 507.96 0.075 0.247 328 200

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:32 pm**

Thanks Dave: Can we get that in metric? Rob '06

----- Original Message ----- From: David Marzullo Cc: klr Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"??? Wire Gauge - Ampacities The following information may have errors; It is not permissible to be read or used by anyone who has ever met a lawyer. Use is also confined to Engineers with more than 370 course hours of electronic engineering and should only be used for theoretical studies. AWG American Wire Gauge (AWG) Diameters )=.005 92^((36-AWG)/39) inch. Load Carrying Capacities or ampacities In part from /Reference Data for Engineers: Radio, Electronics, Computer and Communications 7th Ed/ Max ambient 60C AWG Dia Inch Cir Mil Dia cm Area Inch^2 lb/kft ohms /kft Ohms /km CU Max free-air Amps CU Max enclosed Amps 12 0.081 6,529.9 0.205 5.129E-03 19.77 1.932 6.336 41 23 10 0.102 10,383.0 0.259 8.155E-03 31.43 1.215 3.985 55 33 8 0.128 16,509.7 0.326 1.297E-02 49.98 0.764 2.506 73 46 6 0.162 26,251.4 0.412 2.062E-02 79.46 0.481 1.576 101 60 4 0.204 41,741.3 0.519 3.278E-02 126.35 0.302 0.991 135 80 2 0.258 66,371.3 0.654 5.213E-02 200.91 0.190 0.623 181 100 1 0.289 83,692.7 0.735 6.573E-02 253.34 0.151 0.494 211 125 0 0.325 105,534.5 0.825 8.289E-02 319.46 0.120 0.392 245 150 00 0.365 133,076.5 0.927 1.045E-01 402.83 0.095 0.311 283 175 000 0.410 167,806.4 1.040 1.318E-01 507.96 0.075 0.247 328 200 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07/07/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:18 am**

What tire pressures have you found best for highway/off-road? Bigdroptwo

Wilsons Sandbox

tire pressure

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

minimum gauge wire for "portable jumper cables"???

tire pressure