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indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:50 pm
by sbcglobal
Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, past the rings, into the crankcase.
What happened was that I had been riding around CO for about nine days (absolutely spectacular ride - Grand Junction, Gateway, Dolores, Ouray, Silverton, back to Grand Junction for a clutch cable for my buddy's BMW, Glenwood Springs, Boulder, Pueblo - wow!!!!!). Bike wasn't using oil, getting a little over 50 mpg, somewhere between 150 and 250 miles per day. Being a somewhat anal accountant type, the chain was lubed every day, the oil was checked every time I took a break. Coolant had been replaced before the ride with Water Wetter and never got past mid-temp gauge the entire trip. Petcock innards had all just been replaced. Big Cee petcock diaphragm installed. Carb disassembled and cleaned. The bike was just running great!
The day the rod snapped I was riding from Pueblo to Gunnison, by way of Salida and Monarch pass. I had been riding about three hours and was near the bottom of Monarch, which is a relatively steep pass, sailing along at about 80mph, roughly 5,200 RPM, throttle rolled full off. All of a sudden the bike "clicked" and began shaking pretty violently. Really got my attention.
My questions are, has anybody ever had a rod snap, or heard of a rod snapping on a KLR? Has anybody heard of "hydro-lock", to the extent of snapping a rod, especially under the conditions I've described?
I know I'm asking for it, but all comments, thoughts, help appreciated.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: sbcglobal
To:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Julian Tech Question
Buddy,
When I took my trip in CO at the end of August my bike developed a small hole in the front of the engine case. Just about in front of the lower rod end. I was being nice to it, honest.
Think we have enough time to do a complete teardown and rebuild?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Conall
To:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 1:31 PM
Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Julian Tech Question
Are you offering Nitrogen refills for tires yet? Costco has them. I
can here the PR now.
Conall
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert"
wrote:
> We can do what ever needs to be done at the Tech Day..........we'll even
> change the air in your tires, too!! We also allow a little "SwapMeet"
> action if it doesn't get too out of hand as well.
>
> See you on the 1st.
>
> Buddy
> bseifert71@m...
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indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:03 pm
by Randy Shultz
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sbcglobal" wrote:
>
> They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused as
to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then snaps.
>
---
I've never heard that description attached to "hydrolock", has anyone
else? I always associatesd hydro with water: as in water hetting
sucked into the engine through the air intake and the piston or rod
breaking due to the non-compressability of water.
Igniting fuel in the crankcase sounds like a plain old explosion to
me...
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:08 pm
by Tengai Mark Van Horn
At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
>Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
>bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
>determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
>both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
>cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
>Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
>
>They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
>resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
>as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
>snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
>by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
>off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
>past the rings, into the crankcase.
Smells like horse$hit. The crankcase has breather tube with no kind
of valving in the crankcase ventilation system. If you check your
sight glass in the morning, you would notice the increased volume and
decreased viscosity of the fuel-diluted oil in the crankcase. You'd
also be blowing the mix out the breather such that a puddle would be
under the bike from the airbox drain. The oil-fuel mix in the
crankcase would have a higher flashpoint than gas alone and I doubt
it would ignite. Even if it did, you'd probably blow off the
crankcase breather tube and toast your air filter if enough pressure
was built up to break the rod.
Mark
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:22 pm
by Greg Guithues
At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
> >
> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
> >past the rings, into the crankcase.
On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:
> Smells like horse$hit.
(snip)
> Mark
>
>
>
> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of warranty.
bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were running
the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were running it
underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod
.
-Greg.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:35 pm
by dolomoto@peoplepc.com
I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a piston tries
to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means water vs.
hydraulic which indicates a liquid.
It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the carb and
into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter button...whammo.
Something has gotta give.
It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock.
Just my two cents.
Austin
89 KLR 650
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Guithues"
To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn"
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at just over
2K miles
> At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
>> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
>> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
>> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
>> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
>> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
>> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
>> >
>> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
>> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
>> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
>> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
>> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
>> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
>> >past the rings, into the crankcase.
>
>
>
> On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:
>> Smells like horse$hit.
>
>
> (snip)
>
>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of warranty.
> bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were running
> the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were running it
> underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod
.
>
> -Greg.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Archive Quicksearch at:
>
http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html
> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at:
www.dualsportnews.com
> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:11 pm
by wannabsmooth1
Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could
break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the
crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows
oil, etc, on the road, right?
BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the
crankase??? PUHLEEZE!!
Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke.
Bottom line - gotta get the engine fixed. $2800 is too much!! We'll
find a way.......
all the best,
Mike
Eagle Mfg & Eng since 1990
San Diego, Ca.
wrote:
> I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a
piston tries
> to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means
water vs.
> hydraulic which indicates a liquid.
>
> It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the
carb and
> into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter
button...whammo.
> Something has gotta give.
>
> It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Austin
> 89 KLR 650
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Guithues"
> To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn"
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at
just over
> 2K miles
>
>
> > At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
> >> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
> >> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
> >> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
> >> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
> >> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
> >> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
> >> >
> >> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
> >> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
> >> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
> >> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
> >> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
> >> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
> >> >past the rings, into the crankcase.
> >
> > On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:
> >> Smells like horse$hit.
> > (snip)
> >> Mark
> >> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of
warranty.
> > bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were
running
> > the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were
running it
> > underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod
.
> >
> > -Greg.
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:03 pm
by Russell Scott
Any chance the mechanic was perusing a mountain bike magazine, reading an ad
for the Camelbak Hydrolock feature, when you asked him what was wrong with
your motor?
R
-----Original Message-----
From:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Greg Guithues
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:22 PM
To: clcooper@...;
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Tengai Mark Van Horn
Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at just
over 2K miles
At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
> >
> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
> >past the rings, into the crankcase.
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:24 am
by GW De Lacey
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:11:26 -0000, you wrote:
Agreed
Interestingly, SOP for starting big radial engines on aeroplanes
includes hand/starter motor rotating before turning the ignition on.
Seems oil and fuel can accumulate in the combustion space of the lower
cylinders, reducing the size of the space, and this can cause severe
detonation. The results can vary from a smashed head to a bent push
rod etc.
Also if water enters the air intake of a diesel, the result can be a
bent pushrod or a smashed piston or a broken crankshaft etc.
Both of these are referred to as "hydraulic king".
I don't know what "detonation in the crankcase" would be called, but
my guess is that it is so rare that it doesn't have a name
--
GW
>Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could
>break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the
>crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows
>oil, etc, on the road, right?
>
>BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the
>crankase??? PUHLEEZE!!
>
>Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke.
>
>Bottom line - gotta get the engine fixed. $2800 is too much!! We'll
>find a way.......
>
>all the best,
>
>Mike
>Eagle Mfg & Eng since 1990
>San Diego, Ca.
> wrote:
>> I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a
>piston tries
>> to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means
>water vs.
>> hydraulic which indicates a liquid.
>>
>> It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the
>carb and
>> into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter
>button...whammo.
>> Something has gotta give.
>>
>> It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> Austin
>> 89 KLR 650
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Greg Guithues"
>> To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>
>> Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn"
>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at
>just over
>> 2K miles
>>
>>
>> > At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:
>> >> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my
>> >> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to
>> >> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine,
>> >> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the
>> >> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock".
>> >> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor.
>> >> >
>> >> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase
>> >> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused
>> >> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then
>> >> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused
>> >> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on,
>> >> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder,
>> >> >past the rings, into the crankcase.
>> >
>> > On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:
>> >> Smells like horse$hit.
>> > (snip)
>> >> Mark
>> >> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of
>warranty.
>> > bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were
>running
>> > the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were
>running it
>> > underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod
.
>> >
>> > -Greg.
>
>
>
>
>
>Archive Quicksearch at:
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>List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:31 am
by Gee Ja
Wouldn't the automatic compression release (KACR) bleed off some of the
fluid in the cylinder from the initial cranking, assuming the gas from an
overflowing carb went sideways into the cylinder? Seems more likely with a
downdraft carb setup, and unlikely in this case.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
indestructible a15 klr 650 snaps rod at just over 2k miles
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:46 am
by Jud Jones
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "wannabsmooth1" wrote:
> Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could
> break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the
> crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows
> oil, etc, on the road, right?
>
> BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the
> crankase??? PUHLEEZE!!
>
> Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke.
>
I don't buy detonation in the crankcase either. But an episode or two of liquid in the
combustion chamber could have stressed the rod to where it broke later. Wasn't there
recently a thread on ADVRider or where a guy dropped his Tiger repeatedly on the White
Rim Trail, each time filling the combustion chamber with oil and having difficulty starting
it? Then on the ride home he threw a rod someplace in Mew Mexico. The dealer thought it
fit a familiar pattern.