Wilsons Sandbox

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "blazerhair" wrote:

> Yeah I know hes gonna want to see my licence/registration but what is > the best way to handle the law, while on your KLR? > > What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, or > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom? > > Im sure somethings change state to state also.

1. Pull over as soon as you safely can. Pull well off the road, so he/she doesn't have to limit their exposure to traffic. If he's coming the other way and lights you up, pull over before he turns around, if possible. 2. Helmet and sunglasses off, but stay on the bike, sidestand down. If you need to get off, say something, if necessary, but don't dismount in a way that could be perceived as threatening. Have your license ready, or tell him where it is if you have to go someplace like an inside pocket to get it out. 3. Lose the attitude; that is to say, don't be pissed or outraged at the stop. You did something that got his attention. At the same time, don't be obsequious. I find that a congenial, perhaps mildly bemused attitude carries me through most stops quite well. Remember that you cannot control the outcome, but you can create conditions that will let the cop decide to let you off. 4. Don't insult his intelligence. He had a reason to pull you over. If you have a good idea why he pulled you, sometimes it's a good idea to lead with it: "It was those pedestrians, wasn't it. I was almost past them before I noticed them." Extra points if you can get that out before he asks: "Do you know why I stopped you?" 5. Be ready for the other questions with no right answer: Q:" Do you know how fast you were going?" a. "Not a tick over 55." b. "No." c.. "Well, I guess I was getting along pretty good there." d. "88.5, by my gps." 6. The correct answer is c. Don't deny the obvious, but don't admit it either. If you say you don't know, he can testify to that later. Do you think the judge will believe him? 7. If you do get a ticket, accept it in good grace, and fight it. A few hundred bucks to an experienced lawyer can be well worth the money, even if the cost exceeds the amount of the fine. Look for a disposition that keeps the tag off your record, but be realistic. If you were doing a buck and a quarter, 79 in a 55 might be a very good deal. (In Wisconsin, it lets you keep your license). If the prosecutor doesn't offer you something good, set the case for trial. The settlement offers get better on the day of trial, or if you lucky, the cop might not show. My credentials: I am a lawyer with 27 years experience in weaseling out of tickets, for myself as well as my clients. I get stopped about three times a year, usually for speed; my driving record is clean, however, back to 1997. I rarely have to take my own tickets to court. When I do, I always bring a lawyer.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, blazerhair wrote:

> What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, or > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom?

Off the top of my head I think it should be helmet and gloves off but stay on the bike. Helmet off so they can fully see your face. Then you have to not be a jerk and remember that they are human. Gloves off to help reinforce that you are clearly not about to run (meaning race away on your bike). Staying on the bike is to make sure the officer has the advantage in a fight. You don't want to start to walk toward the office without even realizing it. Remember that to stay alive they have to be prepared for the worst from everybody they pull over. If you start to take that personally then things can start to go bad for you. This is from a white male in the San Francisco bay area, who does know that things can be very different for different sorts of people and in different places. -- Doug Herr doug@...

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Doug Herr wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, blazerhair wrote: > > > What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, or > > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom? > > > Off the top of my head I think it should be helmet and gloves > off but stay on the bike. > > Helmet off so they can fully see your face. Then you have to not > be a jerk and remember that they are human. > > Gloves off to help reinforce that you are clearly not about to > run (meaning race away on your bike). > > Staying on the bike is to make sure the officer has the advantage > in a fight. You don't want to start to walk toward the office > without even realizing it. Remember that to stay alive they have > to be prepared for the worst from everybody they pull over. If > you start to take that personally then things can start to go bad > for you. > > This is from a white male in the San Francisco bay area, who does > know that things can be very different for different sorts of > people and in different places. >

Excellent advice. Remember that your first objective should be to survive the encounter. Not hard to do, but it helps to defuse the undercurrent of fear on the part of the officer that attends every traffic stop. They have a dangerous job. The other thing to remember is that not many people talk themselves out of tickets, but lots of people talk themselves into them, when they were going to get a free pass. This from a retired cop buddy of mine.

The things we talk about in this group. Your a big boy, work it out.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Doug Herr wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, blazerhair wrote: > > > What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, or > > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom? > > > Off the top of my head I think it should be helmet and gloves > off but stay on the bike. > > Helmet off so they can fully see your face. Then you have to not > be a jerk and remember that they are human. > > Gloves off to help reinforce that you are clearly not about to > run (meaning race away on your bike). > > Staying on the bike is to make sure the officer has the advantage > in a fight. You don't want to start to walk toward the office > without even realizing it. Remember that to stay alive they have > to be prepared for the worst from everybody they pull over. If > you start to take that personally then things can start to go bad > for you. > > This is from a white male in the San Francisco bay area, who does > know that things can be very different for different sorts of > people and in different places. > > -- > Doug Herr > doug@w...

Jeez, you kids actually stop when Johnny Law lights you up? Shrug, MarkB

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "dspuffer" wrote: > The things we talk about in this group. Your a big boy, work it out. > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Doug Herr wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, blazerhair wrote: > > > > > What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, > or > > > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom? > > > > > > Off the top of my head I think it should be helmet and gloves > > off but stay on the bike. > > > > Helmet off so they can fully see your face. Then you have to not > > be a jerk and remember that they are human. > > > > Gloves off to help reinforce that you are clearly not about to > > run (meaning race away on your bike). > > > > Staying on the bike is to make sure the officer has the advantage > > in a fight. You don't want to start to walk toward the office > > without even realizing it. Remember that to stay alive they have > > to be prepared for the worst from everybody they pull over. If > > you start to take that personally then things can start to go bad > > for you. > > > > This is from a white male in the San Francisco bay area, who does > > know that things can be very different for different sorts of > > people and in different places. > > > > -- > > Doug Herr > > doug@w...

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Jud Jones wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "blazerhair" wrote: >> Yeah I know hes gonna want to see my licence/registration but what is >> the best way to handle the law, while on your KLR? >> >> What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get off the bike, or >> stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of wisdom?

Get to a safe area, then do whatever he tells you to do. Since what is accepted practice changes with the decades and the jurisdiction, I don't feel safe saying more than that.

> 2. Helmet and sunglasses off, but stay on the bike, sidestand down. If you need to get off, > say something, if necessary, but don't dismount in a way that could be perceived as > threatening. Have your license ready, or tell him where it is if you have to go someplace > like an inside pocket to get it out.

Again, do what he says to do. Cops nowdays have a seige mentality. They operate under the belief that everybody is out to get them, and that the way to survive the streets is if there is any doubt, shoot first, and apologize to the survivors later, repeating the cop mantra "I thought he had a gun" over and over again. The days when cops would go their entire career without removing their .38 caliber revolver from their holster are long gone. Nowdays they have a 9mm pistol with 17 shots in the magazine, and they pull it at the first sign that something might not be right. Getting fragged by a nervous cop is not something I want to have happen to me, so I behave accordingly -- i.e., very carefully, doing exactly what he tells me to do.

> 3. Lose the attitude; that is to say, don't be pissed or outraged at the stop.

My daddy always told me, "Son, never argue with a man with a gun." Whether he has a badge on or not is irrelevant. A man with a gun stops me, I'm going to treat the event with the attitude of sombre and polite reflection required.

> You did > something that got his attention.

Which unfortunately could be as simple as being young and riding a red motorcycle. Back when I was in college, I was riding down the highway at 55mph (for a change -- it was cool outside, and I wasn't dressed for it, thus was riding slower to reduce the windchill). I look in my rear view mirror, and there's a cop car with lights going. So I pull off at the next safe place to pull off. He tells me to turn off my motorcycle, I do so. He tells me to take off my helmet, I do so. He tells me to stand beside my motorcycle away from traffic, I do so. He sits in his car for a while, presumably running the plate, then he comes up and asks me for my driver's license and insurance, I give them to him. He compares the driver's license with his notepad, gives the license and insurance card back to me, and says "Thank you, you're free to go" and walks away. WTF?! But I didn't argue with the man . Again, my policy is to do exactly what I'm told to do. Nothing unexpected. No moves that the cop hasn't told me to make. Don't make a man with a gun nervous, whether he has a badge on or not.

> At the same time, don't be obsequious. I find that a > congenial, perhaps mildly bemused attitude carries me through most stops quite well.

Or confused puzzlement.

> 4. Don't insult his intelligence. He had a reason to pull you over.

Such as, you're young and riding a fast-looking red motorcycle. Or you're black and riding a fast-looking red motorcycle. Don't deny that it happens. It happened to me. I know it happens. But the time to whine, moan, groan and complain is not while a man with a gun is looking you over to decide whether you're a threat to him or not.

> were going?" > a. "Not a tick over 55." > b. "No." > c.. "Well, I guess I was getting along pretty good there." > d. "88.5, by my gps." > 6. The correct answer is c. Don't deny the obvious, but don't admit it > either. If you say you don't know, he can testify to that later. Do you > think the judge will believe him?

Remember, if it's a cop's word against yours, the cop wins. Period. My dad ran a "cop shop" way back in the day, i.e., a local hangout where the cops gathered. Cops had a word for it, "testilying". If they made a bad stop, and the person pissed them off, they'd swear up and down that the radar gun read 85mph even if it said no such thing. One cop's kid showed me his dad's knife collection. It was pretty impressive. His dad apparently would go do stop'n'frisks on local hoods that he knew were on probation. If he caught one with a knife, he'd confiscate it on the spot, telling the hood, "You know you're not supposed to have this! Get the f*** out of here, and don't let me catch you with a knife again or I'll turn you in to your probation officer!" He apparently carried a big switchblade confiscated from one of the local hoods with him at all times, so that if he ever made a shoot and it wasn't a righteous shoot, he could slip the switchblade into the hand of the dead man and claim the dead man had a knife and was lunging at him. Maybe he was just telling tall tales, who knows? But the very fact that such tall tales circulate in cop circles is telling -- don't piss off a cop, he has ways to make your life miserable.

> 7. If you do get a ticket, accept it in good grace, and fight it. A few > hundred bucks to an experienced lawyer can be well worth the money, even > if the cost exceeds the amount of the fine. Look for a disposition that > keeps the tag off your record, but be realistic. If you were doing a > buck and a quarter, 79 in a 55 might be a very good deal. (In Wisconsin, > it lets you keep your license). If the prosecutor doesn't offer you > something good, set the case for trial. The settlement offers get better > on the day of trial, or if you lucky, the cop might not show.

And don't forget the insurance costs if you're in a "points" state. A single ticket can raise insurance costs by up to $200 per month. One thing I will say, though. If you're stopped by a small-town cop in the South, don't bother trying to fight it. Just pay. It won't get reported to the state and won't go on your driving record (these guys are running speed traps and they know it, but they don't want the state to have the stats to prove it), and if you go to fight it, you'll be up against the cop's cousin Bubba the town magistrate, who will charge you an extra few hundred bucks for court costs for making him get out of bed and rule in favor of his cousin.

> My credentials: I am a lawyer with 27 years experience in weaseling out of tickets, for > myself as well as my clients. I get stopped about three times a year, usually for speed; my > driving record is clean, however, back to 1997. I rarely have to take my own tickets to > court. When I do, I always bring a lawyer.

And of course you know that the laws regarding speeding tickets and how they're treated differ from state to state and even from municipality to municipality. I'd like to see you show up in front of Officer Joe-bob's cousin Bubba the town magistrate and fight a ticket successfully! It ain't happening, unless you went to school with Sheriff Jim-bob who drops a word to Magistrate Bubba saying, "Let my cousin Ellen off, she gave her word she ain't gonna speed thru your town no more and I believe her." Note: This isn't fiction. Names have been changed to protect the guilty, but it happened to one of my aunts, who went to school with the sheriff and asked him to talk to Magistrate Bubba. And when my driving record was pulled after getting a couple of tickets from small-town cops like this, neither of the tickets was on there (I was applying for a driving job, so that was of concern to me), just like those cops had promised (said one, "You get your money to the town magistrate, son, and this ticket ain't goin' down to the state. You don't get your money to the town magistrate, it does, and you can't get your license renewed until you pay us. Take your pick."). Yessiree, Magistrate Bubba and cousin Joe-bob have a fancy word for city slicker lawyers who come down there and try to teach them some law, and it ain't one that's repeatable here in this forum! -E

While I have a perfect driving record now, I can assure you in my youth I had more tickets than anyone you ever knew. I am certain that there are 5 states I'd better not get pulled over in. Though it was decades ago. But, I learned. I have been pulled over many times since, but I rarely ever get a ticket. 1. They are not sir, call them officer. Be honest. If you were speeding, admit it right away, and apologize for wasting his/her time. Terms like "I was just being an idiot" are helpful. 2. If you have "ozzy Rocks" or "Budweiser" stickers on your bike/car, forget it, yoour busted. I personally have a.) a county sherrifs badge on my rear fender b.) US Submarine Veteran sticker on my front fairing c.) Support our troops magnets on my tank. 3. Be nice. If you were speeding, you are in fact an asshole, and knew you were risking the ticket. It is your fault, not the cops. Understand this and you may get off. Argue and suffer the wrath. All of my cop freinds will in fact show up to court for someone who was belligerant, but likely wont for someone who made no waves. 4. Slow the hell down. Look, I am old enough now to know life is fragile. You can die in the blink of an eye, and stressing over getting somewhere to fast is a heart attack waiting to happen. Leave early, slow down, enjoy the veiw. --- blazerhair wrote:

> Yeah I know hes gonna want to see my > licence/registration but what is > the best way to handle the law, while on your KLR? > > What do you guys do? Take your helmet off?..... Get > off the bike, or > stay on? things like that.....storys, or words of > wisdom? > > Im sure somethings change state to state also. > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

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--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> And of course you know that the laws regarding speeding tickets and how > they're treated differ from state to state and even from municipality to > municipality.

It's not about knowing the law. it's about giving the system a chance to let something good happen.

> I'd like to see you show up in front of Officer Joe-bob's cousin Bubba the > town magistrate and fight a ticket successfully! It ain't happening, > unless you went to school with Sheriff Jim-bob who drops a word to > Magistrate Bubba saying, "Let my cousin Ellen off, she gave her word she > ain't gonna speed thru your town no more and I believe her." Note: This > isn't fiction. Names have been changed to protect the guilty, but it > happened to one of my aunts, who went to school with the sheriff and asked > him to talk to Magistrate Bubba. And when my driving record was pulled > after getting a couple of tickets from small-town cops like this, neither > of the tickets was on there (I was applying for a driving job, so that was > of concern to me), just like those cops had promised (said one, "You get > your money to the town magistrate, son, and this ticket ain't goin' down > to the state. You don't get your money to the town magistrate, it does, > and you can't get your license renewed until you pay us. Take your > pick."). > > Yessiree, Magistrate Bubba and cousin Joe-bob have a fancy word for city > slicker lawyers who come down there and try to teach them some law, and it > ain't one that's repeatable here in this forum!

That;s why I recommend that you hire a local lawyer if you need to beat a citation in a remote location. Give him a couple hundred bucks and ley him apply it as he sees fit. The small-town guys are even better at getting results, and are a lot cheaper.