Wilsons Sandbox

-----Original Message----- From: klr650a17l [mailto:carsmidt@...] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 2:11 AM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Best Rear Shock/Spring? What rear shock&spring should a 200 lbs guy get to improve handling on dirt/gravel and bumpy black top roads (and to help reduce back pain)? Carsten Smidt A17 -reply-------------------------------- Info from the FAQ - http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Begin snip------- How can I beef up the rear suspension? If you weigh over 150 lbs, you could benefit from a rear suspension upgrade. For reference, the stock spring is 10" long and 300 lbs/inch. Replacement manufacturers are: Progressive suspension makes a replacement spring, which can make a big difference. The 500/560 spring is p/n 1159-20GT, and may have to be special ordered. It is technically a replacement for their 420 shock, but works with the KLR shock. It doesn't match the spring perches exactly, but that doesn't seem to hurt anything. Note that the stock shock doesn't really have enough rebound damping for a heavier spring, but people get away with it. Eshocks sells springs, and makes a 9" spring that will fit the KLR shock. If you're lighter, you might like this spring as you can get a better preload adjustment. Progressive also makes the Larry Roessler 420 series shock. Note that this shock can not be revalved, and can only be rebuilt by Progressive. Works Performance offers a variety of services. All of their shocks are made to order, and tuned to match the bike and the rider's weight, riding style and skill level. If it doesn't feel right, they will retune it for free if you return it within 30 days. At the low end, they do a "heart transplant," wherein they take your shock and put Works Performance guts in. They also make full shocks, with the Ultracross at the top end, offering an external reservoir, and adjustable preload and rebound damping. Ohlins makes a quality shock, but at last check they were no longer imported to the US. You must make arrangements to have one brought into the US as of this writing. They will pick a spring rate to match your weight, but most people have the shim stack redone after they receive the shock. Gary at GPS Suspension [links] can rebuild/revalve the stock shock, and can build a works shock for you. WP (owned by KTM) also makes a shock, which has ben well-received. To remove the shock, do I really need to remove the battery, subframe, etc.? No. Jack up the bike so the rear wheel is off the ground, and slip a board under the tire to support it. Disconnect the links from the bottom of the shock, and remove the bolt at the top (the nut is welded on the other side). The shock can be dropped out through the underside of the bike. What are the stats on the stock spring? The stock spring is about 56mm/2.2" ID, 254mm/10" long, and the spring rate has been measured at 5.3 kg/300 lb. NOTE: Although the stock spring is 10" long, the shock appears to be built for a 9" spring. That is, installing the stock 10" spring puts an inch of preload on it, which is quite a bit. The consensus is that you are better off with a stiffer, shorter spring. A rate of 450 lbs/inch seems to be ballpark for riders of 180-200 lbs, and 500 or 550 for heavier riders. However, you might want to consult a suspension specialist (or the list) for suggestions on your specific weight and riding style. The proper diameter is 2.25". Close snip----- Also check these links ----- http://www.f1engineering.com/suspension2.html http://www.dual-star.com/index2/Brand/Kawasaki/klr%20650%20shock%20spring.ht m http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6164/rearshock.html http://www.dual-star.com/index2/Brand/Kawasaki/420%20Series%20Shock.htm Mike Torst A16 aka lasvegasrider

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "klr650a17l" wrote:

> > What rear shock&spring should a 200 lbs guy get to improve handling > on dirt/gravel and bumpy black top roads (and to help reduce back > pain)? > > Carsten Smidt > A17

I'm sorry to say you don't have a whole lot of choices. I've been looking into this for a while and have become very discouraged with the choices. Basically, you have four options that I know of: 1. Progressive 420 Series. 2. Rebuild OEM shock and get a stiffer spring. 3. Buy from Works Performance. They have a few options at various cost levels. 4. F-1 Engineering (maker of the Diesel KLR) Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate a fifth option, the WP4681, that was recommended by a very reliable source (KDXKawboy) and manufactured by a Dutch company called WP (White Power); not to be confused with Works Performance (WP). It's all quite confusing. Apparently, WP (the Dutch company) was bought by KTM. I've been unsuccessful getting any information from KTM USA, the local KTM dealership or any of my local parts guys. The problems as I've "read" with each option are: Option 1: The shock can only be rebuilt by the manufacturer. The shock is not much better than stock. A progressive rear spring doesn't work well with the KLR. (Dual-Star even has a warning on their web site.) But I have heard favorable reviews from KLRLista's. Option 2: Probably the best alternative for the money. However, the shock really doesn't have enough dampening for a stiffer spring, but works according to many KLRlista's and the FAQ. Somewhat a pain in the butt ordering parts, rebuilding, swapping springs, finding a nitrogen charge, etc. Option 3: I talked to these people at the motorcycle show in San Mateo last week. I have no doubt they know how to build shocks, but I'm not convinced they have much experience with the KLR. Their questions for a $700 purchase seemed pretty generic to me. They said it's a little more detailed and customized once you whip out the plastic ;

> Option 2: Probably the best alternative for the money. However, the > shock really doesn't have enough dampening for a stiffer spring, but > works according to many KLRlista's and the FAQ. Somewhat a pain in > the butt ordering parts, rebuilding, swapping springs, finding a > nitrogen charge, etc.

Nice review of the options. Having replaced the spring on the stock shock, I'd add that it actually wasn't much trouble at all. You can order a spring from eshocks.com (~$80) and have it installed on the shock by someone who can service the shock at the same time ($70+). Ordering the spring is no trouble at all, and having it mounted is no more trouble than having the shock serviced. Of course, it's quite easy to mount the spring yourself, too. -Lujo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/12/04 8:42:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, mwl_95623@... writes:

> Basically, you have four options that I know of: > > 1. Progressive 420 Series. > 2. Rebuild OEM shock and get a stiffer spring. > 3. Buy from Works Performance. They have a few options at various > cost levels. > 4. F-1 Engineering (maker of the Diesel KLR)

I've got about 7000 miles on F1 shocks and am very pleased. I did a short article on the shock for the June issue of Dual Sport News. I've got a very plush ride with good damping. I'm in the minority here on spring rate, I've always thought that the 500# and heavier springs are way too stiff despite my being 280 lbs. The 400# spring on the F1 with the preload cranked up a bit works just fine for me. I have never bottomed the shock and the ride height seems about right. Prior to getting the F1 I was using a rebuilt stock shock with the Progressive 350/450 spring. With that I also used a 7mm thick preload spacer (a local suspension shop measured the spring and said I could go that far without coil bind) which gave me a better preload adjustment, I ran it at the first click riding without luggage and went up two clicks with the bike loaded, damping was set at position #3. For the money that was a very good setup for me. I have no experience with the Works shock but have heard good things, I have always felt the Progressive 420 was too stiff but again I seem to be in the minority with that opinion. More info on the F1 shock is at www.suspensionconceptsinc.com Kurt Grife [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

NOTE: Although the stock spring is 10"

> long, the shock appears to be built for a 9" spring. That is, installing > the stock 10" spring puts an inch of preload on it, which is quite a bit.

Mike ( or anyone though Mike seems to be the spring/shock meister ), what does putting in links to lower the bike do to the spring ? I assumed that it compresses the spring but in a previous discussion Jud said it didn't. Any thoughts ? Bogdan

Installing lowering links increases the mechanical leverage, and makes it seem as though the spring is softer than it actually is. i.e. if you put links on the stock shock spring it will seem as though you now have a softer spring installed. Or, at least, that is my experience. With the stock spring and 2" lowering links my 255 lbs (yeah, a lard tail) was constantly bottoming the rear suspension. Taking things just a little too far, I installed a 600 lbs/inch Hypercoil spring. Works fantastic on the road, is just a bit much on fire roads and rough two-track, but I have to really work at bottoming the suspension now. I might consider the 550 lb spring if I were to do it again. And this is on a stock shock with ~25K miles. Greg Roberts ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Bogdan Swider Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:59:17 -0700

> > NOTE: Although the stock spring is 10" >> long, the shock appears to be built for a 9" spring. That is, installing >> the stock 10" spring puts an inch of preload on it, which is quite a bit. > >Mike ( or anyone though Mike seems to be the spring/shock meister ), what >does putting in links to lower the bike do to the spring ? I assumed that it >compresses the spring but in a previous discussion Jud said it didn't. Any >thoughts ? > >Bogdan > > >

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> plush ride with good damping. I'm in the minority here on spring rate, I've > always thought that the 500# and heavier springs are way too stiff despite my > being 280 lbs. The 400# spring on the F1 with the preload cranked up a bit works > just fine for me. I have never bottomed the shock and the ride height seems

I don't think you're necessarily in the minority: it's just that the 500-560 spring is the most easily available upgrade, so that's what most people have tried. I agree completely that that's way too much for most circumstances. -Lujo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Kurt> wrote:

> > plush ride with good damping. I'm in the minority here on spring

rate, I've

> > always thought that the 500# and heavier springs are way too stiff

despite my

> > being 280 lbs. The 400# spring on the F1 with the preload cranked

up a bit works

> > just fine for me. I have never bottomed the shock and the ride

height seems

> --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Lujo Bauer wrote: > I don't think you're necessarily in the minority: it's just that the > 500-560 spring is the most easily available upgrade, so that's what most > people have tried. I agree completely that that's way too much for most > circumstances. > > -Lujo > Hey! Where were you guys last week when I asked the following question? See below: racetech.com has an online spring rate calculator. I realize there is no such thing as a free lunch, and I also realize this calculator over simplifies spring rate calculations, but I am curious why the recommendations on this list and the FAQ are so different from the Race Tech calculations. Example. I plugged into the calculator my weight (195 lbs.) and riding style (Desert/Enduro/Trail). It came back recommending a spring rate of 5.38 kg/mm. It also stated the stock spring rate was 5.1 kg/mm. Based on my calculations this converts to 301 lbs/in and 286 lbs/in; respectively. Now based on these calculations I really shouldn't need to replace my OEM spring unless 15 lbs per inch makes that much difference. It probably does, but that is not my question. My question is why the FAQ suggests, and I quote ... "The consensus is that you are better off with a stiffer, shorter spring. A rate of 450 lbs/inch seems to be ballpark for riders of 180-200 lbs, and 500 or 550 for heavier riders. However, you might want to consult a suspension specialist (or the list) for suggestions on your specific weight and riding style." 450 to 500 lbs/in seems considerably stiffer. Why is this? My first thought was because the stock spring is 10 inches long with one inch of preload, while the replacement is 9 inches with very little preload. But this really shouldn't matter with a straight rate spring; should it? What is it we know that Race Tech doesn't? Matt

I was around. However, I have no idea why racetech's calculator suggests what it does. I think the FAQ's recommendation is better. -Lujo

> Hey! Where were you guys last week when I asked the following > question? See below: > > racetech.com has an online spring rate calculator. I realize there is > no such thing as a free lunch, and I also realize this calculator over > simplifies spring rate calculations, but I am curious why the > recommendations on this list and the FAQ are so different from the > Race Tech calculations. > > Example. I plugged into the calculator my weight (195 lbs.) and > riding style (Desert/Enduro/Trail). It came back recommending a > spring rate of 5.38 kg/mm. It also stated the stock spring rate was > 5.1 kg/mm. Based on my calculations this converts to 301 lbs/in and > 286 lbs/in; respectively. > > Now based on these calculations I really shouldn't need to replace my > OEM spring unless 15 lbs per inch makes that much difference. It > probably does, but that is not my question. My question is why the > FAQ suggests, and I quote ... "The consensus is that you are better > off with a stiffer, shorter spring. A rate of 450 lbs/inch seems to > be ballpark for riders of 180-200 lbs, and 500 or 550 for heavier > riders. However, you might want to consult a suspension specialist > (or the list) for suggestions on your specific weight and riding style." > > 450 to 500 lbs/in seems considerably stiffer. Why is this? My first > thought was because the stock spring is 10 inches long with one inch > of preload, while the replacement is 9 inches with very little > preload. But this really shouldn't matter with a straight rate > spring; should it? What is it we know that Race Tech doesn't? > > Matt

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