Wilsons Sandbox

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "RYAN" wrote:

> > Fellas, > I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks > I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred above > 80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on > the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had this > problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by wind > hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > > More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up > with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. > > I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so > I don't think that is the problem. > > The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is > that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a ton of > vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too > tight? > > Any other ideas what the problem could be: >

A too-tight steering nut should suppress head shake, but will cause a "roll" in the steering that prevents the bike from tracking anywhere near straight. That could be what you are experiencing, hard to say without more information.

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Judson D. Jones" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "RYAN" wrote: > > > > Fellas, > > I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks > > I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > > bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred above > > 80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on > > the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had this > > problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by wind > > hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > > rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > > > > More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > > Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up > > with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. > > > > I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so > > I don't think that is the problem. > > > > The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is > > that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a ton of > > vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too > > tight? > > > > Any other ideas what the problem could be: > > > > > A too-tight steering nut should suppress head shake, but will cause

a "roll" in

> the steering that prevents the bike from tracking anywhere near

straight. That

> could be what you are experiencing, hard to say without more

information. I'm not sure on the correct terminology, but at speed the front wheel (and thus the handle bars) start shaking from side to side (Left to right). When I reduce speed it stops. Gracias

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, RYAN wrote:

> Fellas, > I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks > I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred above > 80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on > the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had this > problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by wind > hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > > More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up > with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem.

Make sure the D606's are fully seated. If they're not fully seated, you can get problems like this. Those beads are *tough* on a D606, and take a lot of air pressure to seat. Note that the bead could have moved during your test rides, so you could get a gradual issue. Also make sure your wheel is reasonably balanced. Put the bike up on a lift and take off the brake caliper and the speedometer cable. Spin the front wheel. Mark where it stops. Spin the front wheel. Mark where it stops. If it consistently stops in a particular place, you need to balance the wheel.

> I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so > I don't think that is the problem.

Where are your fork tubes? Flush with the top clamp?

> The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is > that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a ton of > vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too > tight?

Hmm. Not likely.

> Any other ideas what the problem could be:

Since my KLR is a bit twitchy too at speed, I'd be interested in knowing what the KLRistas come up with too :-}. -E

Could it be a wheel balance or runout problem? Get the front wheel off the ground (Sears jack is perfect for this) and spin it around, if you have a dial indicator or pencil put it against the fork and see if the wheel is bent. Darren Clark 2004 KLR 650 A-18 (Big, Red, and getting ready for a dohicky upgrade) RYAN wrote:

>--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Judson D. Jones" >wrote: > > >>--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "RYAN" wrote: >> >> >>>Fellas, >>> I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks >>>I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle >>>bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred above >>>80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on >>>the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had this >>>problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by wind >>>hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but >>>rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. >>> >>>More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, >>>Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up >>>with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. >>> >>>I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so >>>I don't think that is the problem. >>> >>>The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is >>>that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a ton of >>>vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too >>>tight? >>> >>>Any other ideas what the problem could be: >>> >>> >>> >> A too-tight steering nut should suppress head shake, but will cause >> >> >a "roll" in > > >>the steering that prevents the bike from tracking anywhere near >> >> >straight. That > > >>could be what you are experiencing, hard to say without more >> >> >information. > > >I'm not sure on the correct terminology, but at speed the front wheel >(and thus the handle bars) start shaking from side to side (Left to >right). When I reduce speed it stops. > >Gracias > > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only times I've experienced head shake is with new tires ,less than 500 miles and pressure over 30lbs! A quick fix would be to drop to 20lbs and see what happens! This will prolly cause contraversey but is easy, fast and will give you somethin else to think about! Good luck and don't low side as some have from head shake at 70! Rod --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, RYAN wrote: > > Fellas, > > I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few

weeks

> > I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > > bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred

above

> > 80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000

miles on

> > the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had

this

> > problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by

wind

> > hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > > rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > > > > More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > > Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set

up

> > with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. > > Make sure the D606's are fully seated. If they're not fully seated,

you

> can get problems like this. Those beads are *tough* on a D606, and

take a

> lot of air pressure to seat. Note that the bead could have moved

during

> your test rides, so you could get a gradual issue. > > Also make sure your wheel is reasonably balanced. Put the bike up

on a

> lift and take off the brake caliper and the speedometer cable. Spin

the

> front wheel. Mark where it stops. Spin the front wheel. Mark where

it

> stops. If it consistently stops in a particular place, you need to

balance

> the wheel. > > > I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front

suspension so

> > I don't think that is the problem. > > Where are your fork tubes? Flush with the top clamp? > > > The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake

is

> > that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a

ton of

> > vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem?

Too

> > tight? > > Hmm. Not likely. > > > Any other ideas what the problem could be: > > Since my KLR is a bit twitchy too at speed, I'd be interested in

knowing

> what the KLRistas come up with too :-}. > > -E

> >>--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "RYAN" wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Fellas, > >>> I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks > >>>I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > >>>bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred

above

> >>>80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on > >>>the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had

this

> >>>problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by

wind

> >>>hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > >>>rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > >>> > >>>More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > >>>Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up > >>>with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. > >>> > >>>I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so > >>>I don't think that is the problem. > >>> > >>>The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is > >>>that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a

ton of

> >>>vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too > >>>tight?

First off, the big nut on top of the steering stem is not the adjustment nut. That nut sits below a claw washer, below the upper fork holder and needs a special tool to adjust it (or a punch and hammer, wielded very gingerly). Did you loosen the upper fork pinch bolts when adjusting the steering stem? I recently did the same maintenance to mine, not because of weaving but because of clunking in the front end. My steering stem nut was finger tight (oops). Do you have the manual? I suggest getting one. Is the SRC brace adjustable or fixed? I would loosen and retorque the entire assembley, including the front axle. Something tells me it's probably not a non-seated tire, I think those are prettty easy to notice at low speeds. And if I'm reading your post correct, you're getting a kind of tail wag/head shake effect, right? It is easily fixable, don't stress. Thanks CA Stu PS I attach an earlier post to the list below: Message: 2 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 07:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric L. Green" Subject: My KLR wags its head As I noted earlier, after putting the Kings KT-966 on my bike it has a tendency to wag its head at high speeds (starting at around 67-68 indicated). I speculated that the taller height of the rear tire was making the fork rake steeper, and that maybe backing off the spring pretension would help. Nope. Even with a full load and 4 inches of sag, it still wants to wag. What does help is riding close to the tank on the narrow "blade" part of the seat and making sure my knees are firmly grasping the tank. This will make it stable at any speed with any load. But isn't particularly comfortable on those long superslab trips, where I'd love to move around a bit without having to keep a death grip on the tank. I went for a five hour ride today to find some rutted gravel roads that somebody had told me about to see how my new tires handled that kind of terrain (alas, somebody paved them over while we weren't looking, but at least it was acceptably curvy -- even if I was looking 1,000 feet straight down at some points and thus riding far too carefully at times to enjoy it!). Coming back on the superslab after 4 hours of hot slogging on tight mountain curvies in 90 degree weather (thank gawd for mesh gear!) was somewhat miserable, because my tushie REALLY would have preferred being on the "fat" part of the seat after all that... The fork bolts are properly tensioned. The fork brace is properly tightened. The axle bolt is properly torqued. The fork pivot moves smoothly and appears properly adusted, with no detectable play of any sort. What's the next thing I should check? Hmm, maybe I should check to see whether my front wheel is straight? Oh - when I put the back wheel back on, I also checked to make sure that my pivots did not have any play in them. My swingarms have no play in them other than in the direction they're supposed to have play (heh!). My bearings were all good too (though I gave them a dollop of grease to keep them happy). Hmm, wonder about wheel balancing, could that make my bike wag at high speed? Just puzzled, I guess. Wheel balance and straightness seems all that's left to check. -E

Google- Steering Head Bearing Adjustment- Do it yourself or get someone qualified to do it,BUT,do it!! You guys are headed for a tank slapper and you don't want to go there!!! Wayne " The difference between an adventure and an ordeal is attitude"(unknown) KLR650A14-1976 R60/6-1995 R100RT-ABC 6461 MOA-71007

----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric L. Green" To: "RYAN" Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Steering Head Shake-Need Advice!!! > > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, RYAN wrote: > > Fellas, > > I've developed a new problem with my '04. In the last few weeks > > I've been experiencing a lot of head shake (the front wheel/handle > > bars oscillating back and forth) at speed. At first it occurred above > > 80 mph but now is kicking in above 75 miles. I've put 6,000 miles on > > the bike- and many of those at speeds above 85 and have never had this > > problem. Accordingly, I can rule out the problem being caused by wind > > hitting the fender. I do have LR progressive springs up front but > > rode 3,000 miles on without the head shake problem. > > > > More recently, I threw on a SRC fork brack and D606's. However, > > Initally I did ride at speed for extended periods on this new set up > > with out incident- so I don't really think that is the problem. > > Make sure the D606's are fully seated. If they're not fully seated, you > can get problems like this. Those beads are *tough* on a D606, and take a > lot of air pressure to seat. Note that the bead could have moved during > your test rides, so you could get a gradual issue. > > Also make sure your wheel is reasonably balanced. Put the bike up on a > lift and take off the brake caliper and the speedometer cable. Spin the > front wheel. Mark where it stops. Spin the front wheel. Mark where it > stops. If it consistently stops in a particular place, you need to balance > the wheel. > > > I did go back and retorque pinch bolts etc on the front suspension so > > I don't think that is the problem. > > Where are your fork tubes? Flush with the top clamp? > > > The only thing I can think of that may have cause this head shake is > > that I cranked the ADJUST NUT all the way down after noticing a ton of > > vertical play in the steering stem. Could this be the problem? Too > > tight? > > Hmm. Not likely. > > > Any other ideas what the problem could be: > > Since my KLR is a bit twitchy too at speed, I'd be interested in knowing > what the KLRistas come up with too :-}. > > -E

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, CA Stu wrote:

> First off, the big nut on top of the steering stem is not the > adjustment nut. > That nut sits below a claw washer, below the upper fork holder and > needs a special tool to adjust it (or a punch and hammer, wielded very > gingerly).

Actually, you can loosen the top nut, loosen the upper fork pinch bolts, and slide the top of the yoke up enough to get at the adjustment nut with a pair of channel locks. It doesn't take a special tool, just some wiggling around.

> I recently did the same maintenance to mine, not because of weaving > but because of clunking in the front end. My steering stem nut was > finger tight (oops). > > Do you have the manual? > I suggest getting one.

Unfortunately, the manual is not very helpful here. It just says "adjust the bolt to the proper tightness". It doesn't say *HOW* tight. The usual advice I see on the web is to tighten it until it drags a bit, then back off until it moves freely again. Other people say it's okay to leave it dragging just a small amount and will provide better stability on the highway. I left it with just a bit of drag, and I guess it works, or maybe not, I'm not sure.

> I would loosen and retorque the entire assembley, including the front > axle.

I already did that on mine. I'm still getting a bit of wag.

> And if I'm reading your post correct, you're getting a kind of tail > wag/head shake effect, right? > > It is easily fixable, don't stress. > > Thanks > CA Stu > > PS I attach an earlier post to the list below:

Yes, that was for me. And my bike still has a little wag to it. I was going to take it to the NoCal wrenchfest to see if anybody else had an idea, unfortunately a torn-up knee interfered with that plan . My front wheel had a hitch so I basically rebuilt my front wheel to as perfect as humanly possible (that bubba is STRAIGHT, I hadn't done a wheel in years, but I may be older and I may be slower, but I ain't lost it entirely!), my back wheel was already perfect (by "perfect" I mean that my gauge shows I'm about 10 times more accurate than the manual spec), and while my back wheel isn't perfectly balanced (I don't have a large enough selection of stick-on weights) it's close (and the front wheel is pretty close to perfect). In six weeks or so when my knee is a bit better I may try doing more work, the rear wheel alignment is one thing to check (is the rear wheel pointed straight?), the next is going to be to change out the tires, one at a time starting with the front, for more street-oriented tires (since dirt riding season is pretty much over here on the California coast) and see if that helps make it more stable at speed. Hopefully I'll find that it was a tire that was the problem, at which point the issue then becomes one of getting Kings Tire to provide me with a tire that doesn't make my bike wag :-}.

> Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 07:58:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Eric L. Green" > Subject: My KLR wags its head > > As I noted earlier, after putting the Kings KT-966 on my bike it has a > tendency to wag its head at high speeds (starting at around 67-68 > indicated). I speculated that the taller height of the rear tire was > making the fork rake steeper, and that maybe backing off the spring > pretension would help. Nope. Even with a full load and 4 inches of > sag, it > still wants to wag. > > What does help is riding close to the tank on the narrow "blade" part of > the seat and making sure my knees are firmly grasping the tank. This will > make it stable at any speed with any load. But isn't particularly > comfortable on those long superslab trips, where I'd love to move > around a > bit without having to keep a death grip on the tank. I went for a five > hour ride today to find some rutted gravel roads that somebody had > told me > about to see how my new tires handled that kind of terrain (alas, > somebody > paved them over while we weren't looking, but at least it was acceptably > curvy -- even if I was looking 1,000 feet straight down at some points > and > thus riding far too carefully at times to enjoy it!). Coming back on the > superslab after 4 hours of hot slogging on tight mountain curvies in 90 > degree weather (thank gawd for mesh gear!) was somewhat miserable, > because > my tushie REALLY would have preferred being on the "fat" part of the seat > after all that... > > The fork bolts are properly tensioned. The fork brace is properly > tightened. The axle bolt is properly torqued. The fork pivot moves > smoothly and appears properly adusted, with no detectable play of any > sort. What's the next thing I should check? Hmm, maybe I should check to > see whether my front wheel is straight? > > Oh - when I put the back wheel back on, I also checked to make sure that > my pivots did not have any play in them. My swingarms have no play in them > other than in the direction they're supposed to have play (heh!). My > bearings were all good too (though I gave them a dollop of grease to keep > them happy). Hmm, wonder about wheel balancing, could that make my bike > wag at high speed? > > Just puzzled, I guess. Wheel balance and straightness seems all that's > left to check. > > -E > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "RYAN" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Judson D. Jones"

snip snip

> I'm not sure on the correct terminology, but at speed the front wheel > (and thus the handle bars) start shaking from side to side (Left to > right). When I reduce speed it stops. > > Gracias

Try changing the air pressure on the tires ? just a thought Dooden A15 Green Ape