first "real" ride today

[ryanwow2000]

Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo (altitude 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the engine, one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar to a car pinging. This generally happens at low RPM, up to 4,500 or so, and increases with lower RPM. It happens only under acceleration, with significant throttle. Perhaps I have been pushing the engine too hard by being lazy (not wanting to bring my feet off the highway pegs to downshift after deceleration) and accelerating with too much throttle at low RPM? I m at altitude again here in Chiapas (7000 ft.) and it s still happening, so I know it s probably not the altitude. Everything with the engine and related components are stock. I've changed the oil at least every 2k mi, often every 1k, and the oil filter every other time. I always check the magnetic plug and never see much metal accumulation. I check my valve clearances every 3k mi. I adjust my balancer mechanism about every 3k mi, no more than 3/4 turn when I do it. Besides, I have heard what it sounds like when this mechanism needs adjustment and my current issue sounds different. The air filter is clean. I checked the spark plug about 2k mi. ago, it looked good. The only change I have made is to close the mixture screw on the carburetor from 3 to 2 1/2 turns, but this problem started at least 300 miles after that change. Haven t yet changed it back yet but I suspect this is not the problem, since the change was marginal. Any ideas? Am I going to have to perform open-heart surgery in the near future? If so, will I be doing damage by waiting? What do you think? Any help is greatly appreciated. Ryan Bock KLR650A12 SF - Prudhoe Bay, AK - Ushuaia, Argentina, May 2002 - ? Currently on a border run to Guatemala to renew a visa...

[Harry Seifert]

Hi Ryan, Try using a higher grade of PeMex. Pinging usually means your octane is too low...or you may have a carbon build-up on or about your cylinder head......or your spark plug is too hot (heat range, that is) If all else fails, if there is an aeropuerto nearby, get some 90+ octane avgas and see if that chases the pings. That's my 2 cents worth Buddy from the enlightened KLR of Harry Seifert bseifert71@...

> [Original Message] > From: ryanwow2000 > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 4/22/04 6:24:59 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Question for the engine experts... > > Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? > > About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo (altitude > 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the engine, > one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar to a > car pinging. > > This generally happens at low RPM, up to 4,500 or so, and increases > with lower RPM. It happens only under acceleration, with > significant throttle. > > Perhaps I have been pushing the engine too hard by being lazy (not > wanting to bring my feet off the highway pegs to downshift after > deceleration) and accelerating with too much throttle at low RPM? > > I m at altitude again here in Chiapas (7000 ft.) and it s still > happening, so I know it s probably not the altitude. > > Everything with the engine and related components are stock. I've > changed the oil at least every 2k mi, often every 1k, and the oil > filter every other time. I always check the magnetic plug and never > see much metal accumulation. I check my valve clearances every 3k > mi. I adjust my balancer mechanism about every 3k mi, no more than > 3/4 turn when I do it. Besides, I have heard what it sounds like > when this mechanism needs adjustment and my current issue sounds > different. The air filter is clean. I checked the spark plug about > 2k mi. ago, it looked good. The only change I have made is to close > the mixture screw on the carburetor from 3 to 2 1/2 turns, but this > problem started at least 300 miles after that change. Haven t yet > changed it back yet but I suspect this is not the problem, since the > change was marginal. > > Any ideas? Am I going to have to perform open-heart surgery in the > near future? If so, will I be doing damage by waiting? > > What do you think? Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Ryan Bock > KLR650A12 > SF - Prudhoe Bay, AK - Ushuaia, Argentina, May 2002 - ? > Currently on a border run to Guatemala to renew a visa... > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ

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[Zachariah Mully]

ryanwow2000 wrote:

> Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? > > About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo (altitude > 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the engine, > one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar to a > car pinging. >

Altitude, or lower octane gas than what you're used to running. My KLRs ping like mofos when I lug them and I only run the cheapest gas I can find in them. If you've not rejetted, the bike might be running really lean at those altitudes. Try turning the carb idle screw back out to richen it slightly and see if it pings then. Z DC A5X A12X

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "ryanwow2000" wrote:

> Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? > > About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo (altitude > 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the engine, > one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar to a > car pinging. > > This generally happens at low RPM, up to 4,500 or so, and increases > with lower RPM. It happens only under acceleration, with > significant throttle. > > Perhaps I have been pushing the engine too hard by being lazy (not > wanting to bring my feet off the highway pegs to downshift after > deceleration) and accelerating with too much throttle at low RPM? > > I m at altitude again here in Chiapas (7000 ft.) and it s still > happening, so I know it s probably not the altitude. > > Everything with the engine and related components are stock. I've > changed the oil at least every 2k mi, often every 1k, and the oil > filter every other time. I always check the magnetic plug and never > see much metal accumulation. I check my valve clearances every 3k > mi. I adjust my balancer mechanism about every 3k mi, no more than > 3/4 turn when I do it. Besides, I have heard what it sounds like > when this mechanism needs adjustment and my current issue sounds > different. The air filter is clean. I checked the spark plug about > 2k mi. ago, it looked good. The only change I have made is to close > the mixture screw on the carburetor from 3 to 2 1/2 turns, but this > problem started at least 300 miles after that change. Haven t yet > changed it back yet but I suspect this is not the problem, since the > change was marginal. > > Any ideas? Am I going to have to perform open-heart surgery in the > near future? If so, will I be doing damage by waiting? > > What do you think? Any help is greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you have answered your own question: you are lugging the engine and it pings. What kind of fuel do you have available down there? Although it usually runs fine on 87 octane, my A12 will ping occasionally i= n hot weather. Atank of premium usually rectifies that. But your riding style can= have a lot to do with it too. Get your feet off the damn highway pegs and b= e kind to your crank.

[rsanders30117]

I agree on backing out the idle screw & high octane fuel. Pinging can be caused by the mixture being too lean. You can't correct your altitude but you can check & do other things. I would check that the carburetor grommet O-rings are still snug to prevent air leaks. Also, mid-range mixture is primarily controlled by the carburetor needle, the idle mixture screw just tweaks a bit in this range. Especially since you ride in a high elevation, I would consider carburetor kit such as Dynojet to get a richer jet & needle, plus have the option of adjusting the needle position. --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Judson D. Jones" wrote:

> --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "ryanwow2000" > wrote: > > Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? > > > > About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo (altitude > > 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the

engine,

> > one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar

to a

> > car pinging. > > > > This generally happens at low RPM, up to 4,500 or so, and

increases

> > with lower RPM. It happens only under acceleration, with > > significant throttle. > > > > Perhaps I have been pushing the engine too hard by being lazy

(not

> > wanting to bring my feet off the highway pegs to downshift after > > deceleration) and accelerating with too much throttle at low RPM? > > > > I m at altitude again here in Chiapas (7000 ft.) and it s still > > happening, so I know it s probably not the altitude. > > > > Everything with the engine and related components are stock. I've > > changed the oil at least every 2k mi, often every 1k, and the oil > > filter every other time. I always check the magnetic plug and

never

> > see much metal accumulation. I check my valve clearances every

3k

> > mi. I adjust my balancer mechanism about every 3k mi, no more

than

> > 3/4 turn when I do it. Besides, I have heard what it sounds like > > when this mechanism needs adjustment and my current issue sounds > > different. The air filter is clean. I checked the spark plug

about

> > 2k mi. ago, it looked good. The only change I have made is to

close

> > the mixture screw on the carburetor from 3 to 2 1/2 turns, but

this

> > problem started at least 300 miles after that change. Haven t

yet

> > changed it back yet but I suspect this is not the problem, since

the

> > change was marginal. > > > > Any ideas? Am I going to have to perform open-heart surgery in

the

> > near future? If so, will I be doing damage by waiting? > > > > What do you think? Any help is greatly appreciated. > > It sounds like you have answered your own question: you are lugging

the

> engine and it pings. What kind of fuel do you have available down

there?

> Although it usually runs fine on 87 octane, my A12 will ping

occasionally i=

> n hot > weather. Atank of premium usually rectifies that. But your riding

style can=

> > have a lot to do with it too. Get your feet off the damn highway

pegs and b=

> e > kind to your crank.

[Stu]

I may be wrong, but I thought altitude makes an engine run fat (rich)? Thanks CA Stu --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "rsanders30117" wrote:

> I agree on backing out the idle screw & high octane fuel. Pinging > can be caused by the mixture being too lean. You can't correct

your

> altitude but you can check & do other things. I would check that

the

> carburetor grommet O-rings are still snug to prevent air leaks. > Also, mid-range mixture is primarily controlled by the carburetor > needle, the idle mixture screw just tweaks a bit in this range. > Especially since you ride in a high elevation, I would consider > carburetor kit such as Dynojet to get a richer jet & needle, plus > have the option of adjusting the needle position. > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Judson D. Jones"

> wrote: > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "ryanwow2000"

> > wrote: > > > Is the engine of my A12 dying at a mere 22k miles? > > > > > > About a thousand miles ago when driving from my pueblo

(altitude

> > > 5000ft.) to Acapulco, I started to notice a pinging from the > engine, > > > one I haven t heard in a motorcycle before but which is similar > to a > > > car pinging. > > > > > > This generally happens at low RPM, up to 4,500 or so, and > increases > > > with lower RPM. It happens only under acceleration, with > > > significant throttle. > > > > > > Perhaps I have been pushing the engine too hard by being lazy > (not > > > wanting to bring my feet off the highway pegs to downshift

after

> > > deceleration) and accelerating with too much throttle at low

RPM?

> > > > > > I m at altitude again here in Chiapas (7000 ft.) and it s still > > > happening, so I know it s probably not the altitude. > > > > > > Everything with the engine and related components are stock.

I've

> > > changed the oil at least every 2k mi, often every 1k, and the

oil

> > > filter every other time. I always check the magnetic plug and > never > > > see much metal accumulation. I check my valve clearances every > 3k > > > mi. I adjust my balancer mechanism about every 3k mi, no more > than > > > 3/4 turn when I do it. Besides, I have heard what it sounds

like

> > > when this mechanism needs adjustment and my current issue

sounds

> > > different. The air filter is clean. I checked the spark plug > about > > > 2k mi. ago, it looked good. The only change I have made is to > close > > > the mixture screw on the carburetor from 3 to 2 1/2 turns, but > this > > > problem started at least 300 miles after that change. Haven t > yet > > > changed it back yet but I suspect this is not the problem,

since

> the > > > change was marginal. > > > > > > Any ideas? Am I going to have to perform open-heart surgery in > the > > > near future? If so, will I be doing damage by waiting? > > > > > > What do you think? Any help is greatly appreciated. > > > > It sounds like you have answered your own question: you are

lugging

> the > > engine and it pings. What kind of fuel do you have available down > there? > > Although it usually runs fine on 87 octane, my A12 will ping > occasionally i= > > n hot > > weather. Atank of premium usually rectifies that. But your riding > style can= > > > > have a lot to do with it too. Get your feet off the damn highway > pegs and b= > > e > > kind to your crank.

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "rsanders30117" wrote:

> I agree on backing out the idle screw & high octane fuel. Pinging > can be caused by the mixture being too lean. You can't correct your > altitude but you can check & do other things. I would check that the > carburetor grommet O-rings are still snug to prevent air leaks. > Also, mid-range mixture is primarily controlled by the carburetor > needle, the idle mixture screw just tweaks a bit in this range. > Especially since you ride in a high elevation, I would consider > carburetor kit such as Dynojet to get a richer jet & needle, plus > have the option of adjusting the needle position.

You don't need to richen your mixture to compensate for high altitude. The thin air tends to richen it, so any compensation would be to the lean side. With the vacuum-slide carb, the stock KLR runs pretty well at high altitudes, especially with the stock lean pilot mixture. As you suggest,though, air leaks in the intake tract could create a condition too lean even for high altitudes. Better to track those down and fix them. If you start to rejet richer in order to compensate for leaks, you will have a bike that will rarely if ever run right. In addition, since combustion pressures are lower, you can usually get by with a lower octane rating at higher altitudes. But third-world fuels with octane ratings below 85 may be more than even the KLR can stand, unless you are conscientious about not lugging your motor.

[Devon]

rsand_@... wrote:

>I agree on backing out the idle screw & high octane fuel. Pinging >can be caused by the mixture being too lean. >

Yeah, but the higher you go the richer the mixture gets (thinner air + same volume of fuel = rich mixture). That said, turning out the mixture screw is almost free. Why not see if it helps. Or just downshift. Devon

[The Mule]

Almost always put 93 in The Mule. It costs a little more, but at around 50MPG, why be a miser and get pinging? Mixture screw tweaking is a no-brainer considering cost (free!), ease (just twist the carb and drill off that cover), and effectiveness (more positive, glitch-free results than Dynojetting so far). Devon helped (once again) installing the Dynojet kit last night in The Mule. Drilled slide lift hole (supposedly for quicker throttle response, which there was after all changes), Replaced stock needle w/Dynojet needle e-clipped 3rd from top and two washers, and replaced stock main jet w/DJ140 (richer than stock). Also drilled 4 X 1" holes in top of airbox, and removed rubber intake restrictor from airbox opening. Put fresh stock foam filter w/Filterskin in. Mixture screw was already out about 2.25 turns (from 1 turn stock), which was a vast improvement at the time with all else stock. Bike started without choke, as it did with just the mixture screw out 2.25 turns. Idles steady, but stumbles when blipping the throttle in lower RPM and lower gears. Seems to get worse after warmed up. Logic would say too rich. Once over 4,000 RPM and in third gear or higher, there's a noticeable improvement in power over stock, which is very smooth. We tried backing the mix screw out further (3 turns total), which oddly seemed to make it run better, but that was at high speed coming back to NYC from Jersey. The airbox and main jet seem tuned nicely for high speed/high RPM performance. Once I hit the city traffic, the low gear/low RPM stumbling was worse than ever. Crank the throttle and it bogs (almost stalling) for 1/2 a second and then BANG!, comes on super strong, popping the front end up like a nitrous boost. Earlier today, I adjusted the mix screw back to the stock 1 turn out, which seemed to make it run beautifully cold, but most of the stumble/surge thing came back in low gears/low RPM once warmed up. Another oddity: the stumble/surge nearly disappers with the choke on, which would logically mean the problem is being too LEAN. I'm a bit confused now, but I'm thinking of raising the clip anyway to second from top, or even to the very top to lean out the low-mid response. The taper of the Dynojet needle is far more extreme than the stocker, which is thicker most of the length and has the abrupt shoulder near the end making a thin tip. I'm not sure of the mechanics of how the needle shape affects things, but I have a feeling the Dynojet shape causes a much richer mix particularly in the lower throttle/RPM region. If anyone can explain this, please pass it on. I'm going to try opening the airbox more (access door off) and removing Filterskin to see what this does first. Hope this account helps other tinkerers out there, and suggestions on where to make the adjustments from here are most welcome......... Steve The Mule A17

> >I agree on backing out the idle screw & high octane fuel. Pinging > >can be caused by the mixture being too lean. > > > Yeah, but the higher you go the richer the mixture gets (thinner air + > same volume of fuel = rich mixture). > > That said, turning out the mixture screw is almost free. Why not see if > it helps. > > Or just downshift. > > Devon

[Paul Wilson]

I was able to take my month-old purchase, my 1996 KLR, out for its first "real" ride today (as in getting it muddy), out to a nearby National Forest area in Virginia. My 250-mile ride ran the gamut from the slab of I-66 to a backwoods trail. Some photos here: http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1 (Massanutten folder) First out 66, Kenda K270s humming away on the slab. I notice something new. The Metrorail yard at West Falls Church. On the VFR I'm too low to see much over the Jersey wall. Not on this bike. VA 647, then 211, the usual suspects. Thumper buzz and 50/50 tires strike again. Outside of Marshall, Va., I glance down at speedo. 0 mph. Funny, seems like we're still moving. :-/ Then I see the speedo cable swaying in the breeze. It had come undone from the speedo housing. An easy fix, and we're back on the road. I have a blast on VA 647, your basic chip seal rural road with lots of tight blind corners. I ride it frequently on my VFR and the KLR is a bit different experience. Stop at the Forest Service visitors center on 211 at New Market Gap to get some maps of the national forest. I pick some routes and start noodling around. The Trails Unlimited map shows all the moto-eligible trails. Off Edinburg Gap Rd., at what's called the Tasker's Gap OHV Complex, are some dirt bike/ATV trails I'd like to try out, and I take a couple of gravel Forest Service roads to get there. The only vehicle I pass getting there is a motorcycle. Looks like I came to the right place. I do notice on gravel the front end feels a little light, floaty and unplanted. Could be the Givi top case is fine for around-town use, but maybe a tank bag is the better choice for a ride like this, to get more weight between the wheels, not hanging off the back of the bike. Dunno. Forest Service OHV trail link: http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/gwj/lee/forest/maps/ohv_brochure.shtml Map of Tasker's Gap http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/gwj/lee/forest/maps/images/ohv/taskers_g ap_map.jpg The trail I picked was blazed orange, meaning "easy." It's plenty demanding, for me. Don't think I'll be taking the heavy KLR on anything more challenging any time soon, with my skill level. Lots of mud, boggy and soft areas, boulders and deep ruts. I definitely need more practice. After a couple of miles, I've had enough, so I turn around and get back to the main road. Turn left and go down the mountain into Edinburg, in search of lunch. After lunch, north a bit, to Woodstock and pick up the road to the Woodstock fire tower. The road goes up the mountain on a series of very steep switchbacks. The gravel in the turns looks very loose, but then I spot the ooze of tar. Turns out to be chip seal and there's plenty of traction. The switchbacks are steep unless you swing way wide. Found myself in second gear once, when I should have been in first. Lugged and stalled the engine. Oops. Descend the other side and then cruise the main road through the Fort Valley, ending on 55 west of Front Royal. Overall a beautiful day to be out and this is a beautiful area for dual sporting and all within an easy two hours of DC. I hope to go back soon and explore some more roads. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org