Wilsons Sandbox

Hi, I have a '99 KLR 650, and am looking for the toughest chain and sprockets I can find. If I am able to go to a larger size, I'll do it. Why? About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel sprockets (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast- I've adjusted the axle all the way back, and the chain is still so loose that I can almost remove it from the sprockets by hand. Ouch. My riding style may not be the best on chains, but I got at least 15,000 out of the last chain, so I really doubt it's all me. I use a hawkeoiler and keep the chain lubed properly, and keep it tensioned correctly. Any ideas on what the strongest chain/sprockets are? Do I have to stay with a 520, or can I go to something bigger and stronger? Has anyone fit a chain tensioner to their swingarm? Thanks much, -K ================================================================ Kelly Cash Email: kelly@... Web: http://www.the-clearing.org There is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that life is serious. ================================================================

On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 13:28, Kelly Cash wrote:

> Hi, > > I have a '99 KLR 650, and am looking for the toughest chain and sprockets > I can find. If I am able to go to a larger size, I'll do it. Why? > About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel sprockets > (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast- I've > adjusted the axle all the way back, and the chain is still so loose that I > can almost remove it from the sprockets by hand. Ouch. > > My riding style may not be the best on chains, but I got at least 15,000 > out of the last chain, so I really doubt it's all me. I use a hawkeoiler > and keep the chain lubed properly, and keep it tensioned correctly.

For you to kill a chain that quick, you must be doing something rather odd. Where do you ride, in a mud pit? What brand of sprockets and chain did you use? How tight do you run your chain? What condition are the sprockets in? With that much wear that quickly I'd suspect three things, poor quality chain, wrong sprocket sizes, or improper tensioning. Being that I rarely see a KLR with a properly tensioned chain (always too tight), that's the first thing I'd check. The KLR only puts out 35HP so is no danger to chains, in fact, several listers run no name cheapy non-o-ring chains on their woods beaters and get tens of thousands of miles out of them. Z DC A5X A12X

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Cash wrote:

> Hi, > > I have a '99 KLR 650, and am looking for the toughest chain and

sprockets

> I can find. If I am able to go to a larger size, I'll do it. Why? > About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel

sprockets

> (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast- I've > adjusted the axle all the way back, and the chain is still so loose

that I

> can almost remove it from the sprockets by hand. Ouch. > > My riding style may not be the best on chains, but I got at least

15,000

> out of the last chain, so I really doubt it's all me. I use a

hawkeoiler

> and keep the chain lubed properly, and keep it tensioned correctly. > > Any ideas on what the strongest chain/sprockets are? Do I have to

stay

> with a 520, or can I go to something bigger and stronger? > Has anyone fit a chain tensioner to their swingarm? > > Thanks much, > > -K > > ================================================================ > Kelly Cash Email: kelly@t... > Web: http://www.the-clearing.org > There is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that > life is serious. > ================================================================

Hey listers, on this chain oiling issue, I've seen lots of opinions about chain oilers and different kinds of lubes, but not usually in the context of how they perform in dirt vs. road conditions. I've had a couple of bikes in the 70's and 80's that had chain oilers, and they worked very well--but they were road bikes. In my early dirt bike days, I tried 90wt and motor oil for chain lube, but the stuff was incredibly nasty and seemed to do more dirt magnet duty than chain and sprocket lubing. When PJ1 and others came out with o-ring and standard style specific chain lubes things got a lot better. Through the 80's and up until the present I used o-ring chains on all my road bikes and fluctuated between o-ring and standard chains on my dirt bikes. I mainly rode 250cc long course events in enduro competion, and from the mid-80's I rode XR250s. This is a bike similar to the KLR in the very mild engine horsepower comparison but had a very good chassis and suspension. The point is that I usually used high quality standard chains on the XR250s because of less friction and used standard chain PJ1 chain lube in the black/yellow can. I do the same thing with my KLR but use Maxima Chain Wax. I don't tour on the KLR and basically only use the KLR for very short highway stints. I stay on dirt roads, jeep trails, and such on most of my KLR travels and only use pavement when necessary to get from point to point. I guess what I'm asking or saying is, doesn't the chain oiler issue, lube-type issue, and chain type issue depend a good deal on where the bike is being used as far as what works? It doesn't seem that you could generalize that it's either o-ring vs. standard chains or chain oilers vs. spray-on lubes. In the dirt I really like the higher quality standard chains with proper adjustment and maintenance. The Maxima Chain Wax also seems to penetrate the rollers quite well and then stays put quite well. Let me qualify, especially with the KLR, that I try to avoid riding in extremely muddy conditions. Also has anyone seen any results of comparisons of rear wheel horsepower effects of o-ring chains vs. standard chains? You can easily tell there is some effect, but I wonder how much? Thad Carey A15

About the only things I know that will kill a chain that fast are beach riding and bad sprockets. You said you used 'good steel' sprockets. What do your sprockets look like? Are they worn out, too, or just the chain? Were they the correct size for the chain? Was the chain the right length to begin with? Does the chain pull off the back of the sprockets, or is it just loose at the bottom? Have you measured it with a chain checker like Doc Krok sells? Sorry, more questions than answers, but hopefully they will lead you somewhere. I'd buy the OEM parts next time and start with a good fresh chain. Kawi sprockets wear like, uh, steel and IMO are worth the price. __Arden

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Kelly Cash wrote: > Hi, > > I have a '99 KLR 650, and am looking for the toughest chain and sprockets > I can find. If I am able to go to a larger size, I'll do it. Why? > About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel sprockets > (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast- I've > adjusted the axle all the way back, and the chain is still so loose that I > can almost remove it from the sprockets by hand. Ouch. > > My riding style may not be the best on chains, but I got at least 15,000 > out of the last chain, so I really doubt it's all me. I use a hawkeoiler > and keep the chain lubed properly, and keep it tensioned correctly. > > Any ideas on what the strongest chain/sprockets are? Do I have to stay > with a 520, or can I go to something bigger and stronger? > Has anyone fit a chain tensioner to their swingarm? > > Thanks much, > > -K > > ================================================================ > Kelly Cash Email: kelly@t... > Web: http://www.the-clearing.org > There is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that > life is serious. > ================================================================

> > About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel sprockets > > (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast > For you to kill a chain that quick, you must be doing something rather > odd. Where do you ride, in a mud pit?

Actually no- Most of those miles were on asphalt. Granted, I was moving pretty fast with a headwind a lot of the time (and I have jesse bags), but I can't imagine that wind drag would have taken as much a toll as it did. Maybe so- I adjusted and lubed it properly, then rode it to Death Valley. It was pretty loose in 450 miles. Probably rode another 200 miles, 1/3 of that off asphalt, and again it was so loose it was jumping teeth under hard acceleration. As for my doing something wrong, I suppose that's possible. But I've had chain-drive bikes for a lot of years, and this is the only one that's had a problem.

> What brand of sprockets and chain did you use?

Can't recall- Either RK or DID chain, I do recall it was an X-ring. Don't know about the sprockets.

> How tight do you run your chain?

About standard. Even if I'd had it too tight, it stretched out REALLY fast, and should theoretically stop stretching once it wasn't too tight, right?

> What condition are the sprockets in?

Back is slightly hooked, and the notches look a little big for the chain rollers. Front looks the same, but with no hooking.

> With that much wear that quickly I'd suspect three things, > poor quality chain, wrong sprocket sizes, or improper tensioning.

Hmmm. I can see the wrong sprockets as a possibility, or defective chain or sprocket.

> Being > that I rarely see a KLR with a properly tensioned chain (always too > tight), that's the first thing I'd check.

Hmmm. I adjust it to specs in the manual, and previous chains have lasted much longer, with more miles in the dirt.

> The KLR only puts out 35HP so is no danger to chains, in fact, several > listers run no name cheapy non-o-ring chains on their woods beaters and > get tens of thousands of miles out of them.

Good to know. Maybe I'll try that. And carry an extra set of sprockets/chain when I go out on the road. Thanks, -K ================================================================ Kelly Cash Email: kelly@... Web: http://www.the-clearing.org There is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that life is serious. ================================================================

I get about 13,000mi from a chain and sprocket set, using nothing but WD40 baths when I leave the woods, and the odd spraying on the street. Considering the serious mud and sand baths that I subject it to, you might get significantly more mileage than 13,000 if you're talking mostly street use. tip- if you've been offroading, hose out the countershaft sprocket cover, sprocket, etc with WD40 before hitting the highway. A lot of sand and muck gets trapped in their. Devon Mlewishome@... wrote:

>I've put 800 miles on my chain without touching it. I spray WD-40 on >it twice a week. It still looks new and hasn't streached at all as >far as I can tell. I know this isn't a lot of miles but I figure >that with the money I save on chain lube I can buy a new chain and >sprocket set every year or so. > > >

> About the only things I know that will kill a chain that fast are > beach riding and bad sprockets.

No beach riding, and the sprockets were new. I'm starting to wonder if the shop gave me the wrong ones.

> You said you used 'good steel' > sprockets. What do your sprockets look like? Are they worn out, too, > or just the chain?

Rear is slightly hooked, and the gaps for the rollers look a little big on both sprockets. They'll be replaced with the chain.

> Were they the correct size for the chain?

I'd assumed so, but am beginning to wonder. The shop I get parts from is generally pretty good, but I suppose mistakes can be made.

> Was the chain the right length to begin with?

I don't think I pulled two links off of it before installing, but also didn't count them. regardless, the amount of stretch in just 500 miles was phenomenal. The extra links would just mean I had less adjustment to play with, it doesn't account for the tremendous stretch.

> Does the chain pull off the > back of the sprockets, or is it just loose at the bottom?

Pulls off the back. I can almost take the chain off by hand without loosening the axle. I've gotten this much stretch TWICE in 1500 miles. Pretty amazing. (and I hope I never see THAT again)

> Have you measured it with a chain checker like Doc Krok sells?

No, I haven't. maybe I should get one.

> Sorry, more > questions than answers, but hopefully they will lead you somewhere.

No problem, with questions and answers come enlightenment. (I've had too many fortune cookies recently)

> I'd buy the OEM parts next time and start with a good fresh chain. > Kawi sprockets wear like, uh, steel and IMO are worth the price.

Indeed. I don't mind paying more money for products that I know won't let me down. I think I got the sprockets from an accessory shop (Road Rider, San Jose, CA) because the local Kaw shops were closed. Thanks, -K ================================================================ Kelly Cash Email: kelly@... Web: http://www.the-clearing.org Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means government by the badly educated. -G. K. Chesterton ================================================================

> I get about 13,000mi from a chain and sprocket set, using nothing but > WD40 baths when I leave the woods, and the odd spraying on the street.

Even with the hawkeoiler I still clean the chain with WD-40 and lube it with chain wax regularly.

> Considering the serious mud and sand baths that I subject it to, you > might get significantly more mileage than 13,000 if you're talking > mostly street use.

I'd expect that too. In light of all the discussion of axle alignment, I'm thinking that might be my problem. I assumed the marks were reasonably accurate (as they are on my GTS-1000). But if the wheel really is canted, that'd wear out the chain in short order. Particularly at the speeds I was riding, with the weight of the loaded bags, and wind drag from same.

> tip- if you've been offroading, hose out the countershaft sprocket > cover, sprocket, etc with WD40 before hitting the highway. A lot of sand > and muck gets trapped in their.

Makes sense. Particularly with a wet chain catching all sorts of flying debris. The one saving grace this past trip is that I was always in front, and didn't have to eat anyone else's dust.

> Devon

Thanks, Devon. (And everyone else who's offered help!) -K ================================================================ Kelly Cash Email: kelly@... Web: http://www.the-clearing.org The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. -Josef Stalin ================================================================

I'm at nearly 17000 on my chain and rear sprocket on the 03 Hoss. I've replaced the front sprocket twice. I tried the wd 40 thang for the first 10K, but noticed the rollers getting very loose on the chain, and decided for good chain lube. Now I'm at 16900 and will be sure to hit 20K out of the rear and chain. What more can I expect. No aluminum sprocket stuff for me! Too much clawin the sky! I'll stick to what works! Rod, lovin how little this scooter costs me to maintain! Hell, only on the second set of new tires, with only 500 miles on them! --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Zachariah Mully wrote:

> On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 13:28, Kelly Cash wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a '99 KLR 650, and am looking for the toughest chain and

sprockets

> > I can find. If I am able to go to a larger size, I'll do it. Why? > > About 2500 miles ago I replaced the old set with good steel

sprockets

> > (stock ratio) and good quality X-ring chain. It's now toast-

I've

> > adjusted the axle all the way back, and the chain is still so

loose that I

> > can almost remove it from the sprockets by hand. Ouch. > > > > My riding style may not be the best on chains, but I got at least

15,000

> > out of the last chain, so I really doubt it's all me. I use a

hawkeoiler

> > and keep the chain lubed properly, and keep it tensioned

correctly.

> > For you to kill a chain that quick, you must be doing something

rather

> odd. Where do you ride, in a mud pit? What brand of sprockets and

chain

> did you use? How tight do you run your chain? What condition are the > sprockets in? With that much wear that quickly I'd suspect three

things,

> poor quality chain, wrong sprocket sizes, or improper tensioning.

Being

> that I rarely see a KLR with a properly tensioned chain (always too > tight), that's the first thing I'd check. > > The KLR only puts out 35HP so is no danger to chains, in fact,

several

> listers run no name cheapy non-o-ring chains on their woods beaters

and

> get tens of thousands of miles out of them. > > Z > DC > A5X > A12X