Wilsons Sandbox

At 4:51 AM +0000 10/31/03, klr_a4 wrote:

>Let's say I'm outfitting a KLR with studded tires for winter snow >pack and ice over dirt and pavement. To ride during the winter in >Maine. True multisurface. How would it be to stud my existing AM24 >Gripsters? Or are knobbies better? I need a quick primer on this >subject. >Anyone?

I definitely wouldn't use an AM24 because odds are in Maine, if there's ice, there's snow. You want a knobby for the snow. I can ride in 8" of snow on the street on new Kenda K270s. Devon is currently doing a project studding tires with automotive studs. I'm not sure which tire he's using. I used a Barum c27 because it has holes cast into the knobs so there's no drilling to do. However, these are too small for automotive studs (unless there's one's I don't know about). I used 4d sinker nails, inserted in the same fashion as atuomotive studs and snipped of 1/16" above the tread surface. My front tire has 800 of these in it. It hooks up AWESOMELY (I can comfortably do 45-50mph on sheet ice), but the nails wear down quickly and the center ones have to be changed every 200 miles. I'm looking for a hardened nail that will work, of for a tiny automotive stud. Barum doesn't have a 17" rear, so I use 120 #4x3/8" sheet metal screws. These get changed out every 150 miles. Mark -- http://www.personal.psu.edu/mjv2/studly.jpg

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "klr_a4" wrote:

> Let's say I'm outfitting a KLR with studded tires for winter snow > pack and ice over dirt and pavement. To ride during the winter in > Maine. True multisurface. How would it be to stud my existing AM24 > Gripsters? Or are knobbies better? I need a quick primer on this > subject. > Anyone? > > Conall

If you do this, I give you a big thumbs up! I would do it for sure. I just have to ride that bad. Besides, the looks on the cagers faces as I pass them would be priceless! I rode through 2 sets of gripsters, and although they do very, very well on dry road, and very good on wet road, off road they pretty much sucked. Sure I could get the bike to go, it's just that controlling it was a real bitch. This was on mostly hard pack dirt roads, with alot of gravel and dirt here and there. When I put on the IRC GP 110's, it got alot better for off road. When I put on the Maxxis 6006 rear knobbie, is was WAY better off road. I suspect that I would be doing studs in knobbies for snowy winter months up there, but I would always try to stay away from ice, and hard packed snow. By the way, although I reside in year round riding Northern California, I did spend the first 17 years of my life in Pittsburg Pa, so I do know snow. My brother still lives there, and has worked in a tire store for decades. He rides BMX bicycles year round, and he sticks studs on his knobbie bicycle tires. MrMoose A8 (Barbie and Ken special)

In '77, I married and between us had already accumulated nine kids. Carol had the station wagon and I had the RD350 (not the most tractable engine ever built). I went to work and she did the home logistics. This was in Denver and there were many rides to and from work where there was glare ice and/or deep snow. No studs, street tires. The answer to the question is 'very carefully'. Actually, it was quite fun (and exciting). We 20th century people do not get the opportunity for much adventure unless we seek it out. Sometimes it seeks us out. -Jim in AZ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tengai Mark Van Horn" To: "klr_a4" Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] winter Tire Choice for studs > I definitely wouldn't use an AM24 because odds are in Maine, if > there's ice, there's snow. You want a knobby for the snow. I can ride > in 8" of snow on the street on new Kenda K270s. > Devon is currently doing a project studding tires with automotive > studs. I'm not sure which tire he's using. > I used a Barum c27 because it has holes cast into the knobs so > there's no drilling to do. However, these are too small for > automotive studs (unless there's one's I don't know about). I used 4d > sinker nails, inserted in the same fashion as atuomotive studs and > snipped of 1/16" above the tread surface. My front tire has 800 of > these in it. It hooks up AWESOMELY (I can comfortably do 45-50mph on > sheet ice), but the nails wear down quickly and the center ones have > to be changed every 200 miles. I'm looking for a hardened nail that > will work, of for a tiny automotive stud. > Barum doesn't have a 17" rear, so I use 120 #4x3/8" sheet metal > screws. These get changed out every 150 miles. > Mark

The automotive studs I'm using require a hole about 13mm deep, drilled with either a 1/4" or 5/16" bit (I'll check next chance I get). So you need a tire with at least 15mm before you hit cords. I'm using a Dunlop D606 front, which is BARELY going to work- in a couple of the holes, I can just barely see cords in the center of the bottom. The rear is a Kenda K760, which has plenty of room. You would definitely want knobbies, and you definitely want to run the lowest tire pressure you can safely manage if you're in snow. I am using rim locks on both wheels, so I've been using 8psi front and 10psi rear when offroad. The traction you get with that much contact patch makes up for the minor extra hassle doing tire changes. Devon klr650dotcom@... wrote:

>Let's say I'm outfitting a KLR with studded tires for winter snow >pack and ice over dirt and pavement. To ride during the winter in >Maine. True multisurface. How would it be to stud my existing AM24 >Gripsters? Or are knobbies better? I need a quick primer on this >subject. >Anyone? > >Conall > > >

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will try the Kenda K270 or another knobby. I'm moving to Maine after a great 19 years in NOR CAL and look forward to some meeting & riding back east with you some of you guys. I am still keeping a KLR in CA for visits. I wish I could ride the cycle cross-country but I already have a KLR back east. Conall-

>From: Devon >To: klr650dotcom@..., KLR650 group DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] winter Tire Choice for studs >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:42:33 -0500 > >The automotive studs I'm using require a hole about 13mm deep, drilled with >either a 1/4" or 5/16" bit (I'll check next chance I get). > >So you need a tire with at least 15mm before you hit cords. I'm using a >Dunlop D606 front, which is BARELY going to work- in a couple of the holes, >I can just barely see cords in the center of the bottom. The rear is a >Kenda K760, which has plenty of room. > >You would definitely want knobbies, and you definitely want to run the >lowest tire pressure you can safely manage if you're in snow. I am using >rim locks on both wheels, so I've been using 8psi front and 10psi rear when >offroad. The traction you get with that much contact patch makes up for the >minor extra hassle doing tire changes. > >Devon

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klr650dotcom@... wrote:

> > Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will try the Kenda K270 or > another knobby. I'm moving to Maine after a great 19 years in NOR CAL > and look forward to some meeting & riding back east with you some of > you guys. I am still keeping a KLR in CA for visits. I wish I could > ride the cycle cross-country but I already have a KLR back east. > > Conall- >

If you're using the Kendas in the snow, a 270 probably won't clean very well AND you'll absolutely need rim lock to use a low enough pressure with those thin sidewalls. The 270 front doesn't seem to have deep enough knobs for studs. If you can keep your riding to 90% gravel or non-hard-surfaced roads, sheet metal screws with the sharp-edged hex heads are UNBELIEVABLE on ice. The bike tracks like road tires on dry pavement. Devon

Devon, Regarding the sharp edged sheet metal screws. How long can they be before you damage the tire/tube? What size can you recommend ? I assume you screw them in until the head hits the nobbies? How many would you use? One on every nobbi? I am running a Kenda K-257D in the rear (brand new). Front is a Dunlop K750A (50% left). With winter coming, I still want to be able to get to my local trails (not much road driving inbetween, no highspeed concern since I can and will keep it under 50 mph). Vvolker -----Original Message----- From: sentto-488385-85633-1067624675-vtraudt=compuserve.com@....c om [mailto:sentto-488385-85633-1067624675-vtraudt=compuserve.com@... .yahoo.com] On Behalf Of Devon Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:23 PM To: klr650dotcom@... Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] winter Tire Choice for studs klr650dotcom@... wrote:

> > Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will try the Kenda K270 or > another knobby. I'm moving to Maine after a great 19 years in NOR CAL > and look forward to some meeting & riding back east with you some of > you guys. I am still keeping a KLR in CA for visits. I wish I could > ride the cycle cross-country but I already have a KLR back east. > > Conall- >

If you're using the Kendas in the snow, a 270 probably won't clean very well AND you'll absolutely need rim lock to use a low enough pressure with those thin sidewalls. The 270 front doesn't seem to have deep enough knobs for studs. If you can keep your riding to 90% gravel or non-hard-surfaced roads, sheet metal screws with the sharp-edged hex heads are UNBELIEVABLE on ice. The bike tracks like road tires on dry pavement. Devon List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Mr Moose Could you send tell me what carb jets and needle settings you ended up with. It would give me a good starting point. I have removed the air box screen, drilled the L shaped openings in the top of the box. Also have adjusted the pilot needle. and have a .065" shim under the stock needle. I have the KLX needle, holder, and clip ready to go in. Also have a selection of main jets and I'm waiting for a 42 pilot jet (ordered from a Harley dealer) before I start making the changes. Plan to install a Laser as soon as the budget will allow. thanks in advance Doug Pippin (new KLR owner) A16 At 12:48 AM 11/2/03 +0000, you wrote:

>I concur. Taking out the airbox was a bit of a pain, taking out the >screen was a pain, fine tuning the jetting was time intensive, >putting on the Laser Pro Duro cost me some bucks, and was a pain to >line it all up "just right". > >But put it all together and you get just what Thad said. No >underwear stainer, just that extra punch, that for me anyway, was the >difference between a bike that you have to work to lift the front >wheel, and one that will do it reletively easily. The top end is a >little better, and my milage is a little better. When I put my 14 >tooth counter shaft sprocket on, it's very hard for me to keep the >front end on the ground when taking off from a dead stop. It's just >too easy to "dial an angle" with that twisty thingy on the right side >of the handlebar. > >MrMoose >A8 (Barbie and Ken special)

---------- Doug Pippin 828-684-8488 dpippin5@... ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]