Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 12:30 am**

on cnn today http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/04/older.injuries/index.html ........cosmo

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:34 am**

2 Words... Poker Runs. I could have added 2 more words (Harley Davidson) but I won't. Brad J. Morris A16 Illinois

> http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/04/older.injuries/index.html

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:53 am**

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "bradmorris64" wrote:

> 2 Words... > > Poker Runs. > > I could have added 2 more words (Harley Davidson) but I won't. > > Brad J. Morris > A16 Illinois

I'll add two more. "natural selection"

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 12:48 pm**

I read the USA Today version of the story, and they pointed out that MSF said that in 1999 92 percent of all bike accidents involved untrained (or trained by friends) riders. The article went on to say that most bike training courses were booked months in advance. I can't help but wondering if the MSF is overstating their stats here (but I always am curious about the source of data), but I know that I'm really glad that I did two things when I returned to riding: 1) Took an MSF Basic Riding Course 2) Started out on a KLR without too much power and too much weight. ----

>2 Words... > >Poker Runs.

Earlier articles about this phenomenon have pointed out that the 40-something riders are also going out on much more ambitious rides early on than are the 16-25-year-olds. More miles = more accidents. Ralph who is starting to think about an experienced rider course this year.

> >> http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/04/older.injuries/index.html

Ralph E. Hanson rhanson40@... 99 KLR 650 http://www.wvu.edu/~journal2/west

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:11 pm**

In a message dated 1/11/02 1:50:54 PM EST, rhanson40@... writes: << read the USA Today version of the story, and they pointed out that MSF said that in 1999 92 percent of all bike accidents involved untrained (or trained by friends) riders. >> NO NO NO I read that most accidents happen within 2 miles of your home, I am safe now I moved 5 miles from my old home, No accidents for me better safe than sorry. Mike

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:15 pm**

This is a classic chicken or the egg debate- Does the riding class make people that much safer, or are the kind of people who think a safety class is a good idea less likely to have an accident? The more relevant statistic is to compare the total percentage of riders who have gotten formal training, vs the percentage of riders involved in accidents who have gotten formal training. This is where you hear the word "under-represented"- Maybe 15% of new riders get formal training, yet only 8% are involved in accidents. Which means that the class certainly helps, but maybe not "92%". Something like 30% of street riders have had dirt riding experience, but riders with dirt experience are only involved in 10% of the accidents. These statistics are pulled from memory, from articles I've read and taking the MSF-ERC class two years back. They're not exactly right, but they do reflect the statistical trends properly. Devon A15 Ralph Hanson wrote:

> > I read the USA Today version of the story, and they pointed out that MSF > said that in 1999 92 percent of all bike accidents involved untrained (or > trained by friends) riders. The article went on to say that most bike > training courses were booked months in advance. > > I can't help but wondering if the MSF is overstating their stats here (but > I always am curious about the source of data), but I know that I'm really > glad that I did two things when I returned to riding: > > 1) Took an MSF Basic Riding Course > 2) Started out on a KLR without too much power and too much weight. > > ---- > > >2 Words... > > > >Poker Runs. > > Earlier articles about this phenomenon have pointed out that the > 40-something riders are also going out on much more ambitious rides early > on than are the 16-25-year-olds. More miles = more accidents. > > Ralph > who is starting to think about an experienced rider course this year. > > > > >> http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/04/older.injuries/index.html > > Ralph E. Hanson > rhanson40@... > 99 KLR 650 > http://www.wvu.edu/~journal2/west > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 3:00 pm**

Either CNN or the The New York Times had an article recently about a survey which claims that the only rider class in which there has recently been a rise in accident rate is the baby-boomers-riding- large-displacement-v-twins class (OK, so they did have it quantified a bit better than that), and most people in that class were supposedly quite disciplined about taking the MSF course and wearing protective gear. On the other hand, despite the precautions they were often riding motorcycles that they coudln't fully control, and they often drove them after drinking. The average age of people getting into accidents was 38 (up from maybe 30 a decade ago) and typical accidents took place on rural roads and were caused by driver error. I think it's pretty certain that the MSF course helps people avoid lots of newbie mistakes, most commonly perhaps trying to steer only by leaning and trying to stop with the front wheel not straight. -Lujo

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Devon Jarvis wrote: > This is a classic chicken or the egg debate- Does the riding class make > people that much safer, or are the kind of people who think a safety > class is a good idea less likely to have an accident? > > The more relevant statistic is to compare the total percentage of riders > who have gotten formal training, vs the percentage of riders involved > in accidents who have gotten formal training. This is where you hear the > word "under-represented"- Maybe 15% of new riders get formal training, > yet only 8% are involved in accidents. Which means that the class > certainly helps, but maybe not "92%". Something like 30% of street > riders have had dirt riding experience, but riders with dirt experience > are only involved in 10% of the accidents. > > These statistics are pulled from memory, from articles I've read and > taking the MSF-ERC class two years back. They're not exactly right, but > they do reflect the statistical trends properly. > > Devon > A15

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:51 pm**

Devon writes:

>This is a classic chicken or the egg debate- Does the riding class make >people that much safer, or are the kind of people who think a safety >class is a good idea less likely to have an accident?

No question that there is a self-selection bias coming in here. That's a huge factor. I also know, howver, that I learned a lot from the class, especially the braking drills. I know that I've prevented at least one single vehicle accident because of what I learned in class. But the old selection bias will continue to confound us until we have a population of about 1000 riders or so whom we're willing to sacrifice to a controlled experiment....

Ralph Ralph E. Hanson rhanson40@... 99 KLR 650 http://www.wvu.edu/~journal2/west

Posted: **Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:44 pm**

How about "Drunken RUBs"? -- Marc Illsley Clarke, Kawasaki KLR650 A12, Loveland, Colorado, USA Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:53:40 -0000 From: "monahanwb" Subject: Re: NKLR crash stats

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "bradmorris64" wrote: > 2 Words... > Poker Runs. > > I could have added 2 more words (Harley Davidson) but I won't. > Brad J. Morris > A16 Illinois I'll add two more. "natural selection"

Posted: **Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:24 am**

Cloyce & all, Thanks for all the info. Will get the chance to pull the bowl off on Wed. next. Tried the tapping method, no luck. Don't know what caused the problem, but my best guess is that the bike was laid over on its right side (from basically zero mph). It took a couple of minutes for me to pull off my helmet and gloves, then turn off the fuel, and lift the bike upright. I rode the 84 miles round trip to and from work, the bike ran a little "off" from how I am used to it, but I didn't notice the fuel spill till after I parked it for the night. I usually turn off the fuel at the petcock as soon after I dismount. Just habit I guess. Marshall in Slidell, La 95 KLXC3"Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served)

Wilsons Sandbox

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slidell?