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klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2001 9:17 pm
by Mike Roell
Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be a
retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that matter.
Oh well, it isn't my list and I don't make the rules.
For some KLRC, has anyone converted their KLR to a motard-style
bike? If so, how do you like it? What difficulties did you have, if
any?
Mike
San Diego, CA
--- In
DSN_klr650@egroups.com, "Kurt Simpson" wrote:
> Andy, you're beginning to tread a fine line with spamming the list
which is
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:47 pm
by cairnpath@yahoo.com
> Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be a
> retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that
matter.
i agree with you mike.i am not the most list savy person around but
isnt spam unwanted solicitation?if there is a new product out there
and a list member has some information about it(like taking the time
to photograph and write a review)shouldnt that person share their
experience with the rest of us?dont get me wrong ,the people managing
the list have the final say but do we want to belong to a list where
enthusiasts/owners dont share?
> Oh well, it isn't my list and I don't make the rules.
so who does?>
wrote:
oh.... that would be who......
> > Andy, you're beginning to tread a fine line with spamming the
list
> which is
eric
A7 KLR
A1 EX500
92 851
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 12:01 am
by Kurt Simpson (Dual Sport News)
> Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be a
> retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that
matter.
i agree with you mike.i am not the most list savy person around but
isnt spam unwanted solicitation?if there is a new product out there
and a list member has some information about it(like taking the time
to photograph and write a review)shouldnt that person share their
experience with the rest of us?dont get me wrong ,the people managing
the list have the final say but do we want to belong to a list where
enthusiasts/owners dont share?
_______
Andy and I've written off-line and we will continue to do that to arrive at
clarity. I have nothing against him personally, the point is it is a
commercial site that he is promoting. I don't know how it is all connected
and I don't need to...an enthusiast's site isn't covered with copyright
limitations, promotional literature, listings of sponsors...an enthusiasts
site will have mixed reviews, "here is my Big Gun...I'm in love with
it...before that I had an xyz and it was built poorly and gave me no end of
trouble..." I've just spent an hour looking at Andy's site and have yet to
find a bad word about any product....
There are over 1,000 listers here and it is prime territory for
marketers...Andy's site references motorsports marketing...we've been
writing, praising, critiquing and sharing about Cobra's, Big Gun's, Laser
Pro Duro's, etc for two years next month. There is a KLR webring....there is
file space on the egroups site for uploading pictures...I could go on...
I sit on six to nine lists at all times, none of them allow commercials for
any lister's enterprise...we're no different.
Kurt
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 5:35 am
by Don Detloff
I am another that agrees. I enjoyed reading the info on the changes
made to the Big Gun exhaust and I am sure others on this list did too.
On a similar note, a few days ago, Lew was politely warned about
sending some of his messages to a group off-list. Again, I find a lot
of the messages I read on this list informative and interesting.
As has been mentioned several times, if the message doesn't pertain
toally to our KLR's, use NKLR in the subject line. I think most
people on the list are pretty good about this. Some slip once in a
while, but it sure isn't the end of the world when it happens.
When all else fails, there is always the delete key.
I think some people should ease up on their strict beliefs on what is
posted to this list and what isn't. I would hate to see it become
like other lists where there are only a handful of messages posted
each month.
Don Detloff
Fair Haven, MI A14
--- In
DSN_klr650@egroups.com, cairnpath@y... wrote:
> > Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be
a
> > retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that
> matter.
> i agree with you mike.i am not the most list savy person around but
> isnt spam unwanted solicitation?if there is a new product out there
> and a list member has some information about it(like taking the
time
> to photograph and write a review)shouldnt that person share their
> experience with the rest of us?dont get me wrong ,the people
managing
> the list have the final say but do we want to belong to a list
where
> enthusiasts/owners dont share?
> > Oh well, it isn't my list and I don't make the rules.
> so who does?>
>
> > --- In
DSN_klr650@egroups.com, "Kurt Simpson"
> wrote:
> oh.... that would be who......
> > > Andy, you're beginning to tread a fine line with spamming the
> list
> > which is
>
>
> eric
> A7 KLR
> A1 EX500
> 92 851
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 7:07 am
by Fred Hink
[b]
Listers:[/b] [b]
[/b] [b]
I support Kurt in his efforts here on this list. You have to look at the results after all these years of how this list has been run and how it is thriving. If it weren't for Kurt's hard work, wit and persistence, we wouldn't be where we are today. I commend Kurt for all his efforts towards making this one of the finest motorcycle lists on the net.[/b] [b]
[/b] [b]
On another note. I have done newsletters in the past and have learned from others that have done them. The hardest part in keeping a publication successful is having new material to write about. I am sure Kurt would appreciate any and all reports for the Dual Sport News. Andy's report on the new Big Gun comes to mind. If anyone has a product review or trip report that would be of interest to us all, please send it to Kurt so that the DSN will continue. I would sure hate to see this fine publication disappear because of the lack of "NEWS".[/b] [b]
[/b] [b]
Fred[/b] [b]
[/b] [b]
[/b]
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] dsneditor@... [b]To:[/b] cairnpath@... ;
DSN_klr650@egroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, January 19, 2001 10:01 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: KLR Stuff...List Notes and a question
> Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be a
> retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that
matter.
i agree with you mike.i am not the most list savy person around but
isnt spam unwanted solicitation?if there is a new product out there
and a list member has some information about it(like taking the time
to photograph and write a review)shouldnt that person share their
experience with the rest of us?dont get me wrong ,the people managing
the list have the final say but do we want to belong to a list where
enthusiasts/owners dont share?
_______
Andy and I've written off-line and we will continue to do that to arrive at
clarity. I have nothing against him personally, the point is it is a
commercial site that he is promoting. I don't know how it is all connected
and I don't need to...an enthusiast's site isn't covered with copyright
limitations, promotional literature, listings of sponsors...an enthusiasts
site will have mixed reviews, "here is my Big Gun...I'm in love with
it...before that I had an xyz and it was built poorly and gave me no end of
trouble..." I've just spent an hour looking at Andy's site and have yet to
find a bad word about any product....
There are over 1,000 listers here and it is prime territory for
marketers...Andy's site references motorsports marketing...we've been
writing, praising, critiquing and sharing about Cobra's, Big Gun's, Laser
Pro Duro's, etc for two years next month. There is a KLR webring....there is
file space on the egroups site for uploading pictures...I could go on...
I sit on six to nine lists at all times, none of them allow commercials for
any lister's enterprise...we're no different.
Kurt
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 8:31 am
by jirvine@nmsu.edu
At 03:17 AM 1/20/01 +0000, Mike Roell wrote:
>Wow. That was a bit harsh considering Andy doesn't appear to be a
>retailer/distributor for Big Gun, or anything else for that matter.
>Oh well, it isn't my list and I don't make the rules.
I looked at the website and found it interesting. Does andy (do you) have a
financial stake inthis?
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 9:30 am
by Jim Barthell
Ok, Ok hold on now or we're going to make things worse by blindly following
rules....
1) Andy's info, (commercial or otherwise), is one of the most useful I've
read on this list in a long time. Except is 90db good or bad? What is the
KLR OEM rated at?
2) All the other lists I have been on do have some tolerance for this kind
of stuff, it _seems_ to depend on whether or not the bottom line info is
something the listers may want to know about.
3) Probably the worst effect of your chastising Andy is that Fred no longer
includes a like to his commercial site. This is a major bad thing. Several
times I have gone to the list searched for a Fred Hink post just to find a
link to his site. Now that's gone and the overall usefulness of the list is
diminished.
Your a good man Kurt, but I think I need to disagree with you on this call.
Jim Barthell
-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Simpson (Dual Sport News) [mailto:dsneditor@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 12:01 AM
To: cairnpath@...;
DSN_klr650@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: KLR Stuff...List Notes and a question
Andy and I've written off-line and we will continue to do that to arrive at
clarity. I have nothing against him personally, the point is it is a
commercial site that he is promoting. I don't know how it is all connected
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 9:33 am
by Richard Ohnstad
I don't agree. I do think that Andy was beginning to approach the fine line
of spamming on the list. I would rather see Kurt or Arne error on the side
of too little spamming, rather than too much. Secondly, there was nothing
harsh in Kurt's request to "cease and desist", he wrote factually and with
tact.
Richard in Tucson
94 KLR650
86 VFR750
> I am another that agrees. I enjoyed reading the info on the changes
> > > > Andy, you're beginning to tread a fine line with spamming the
> > list
> > > which is
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 10:13 am
by Kurt Simpson (Dual Sport News)
Ok, Ok hold on now or we're going to make things worse by blindly following
rules....
1) Andy's info, (commercial or otherwise), is one of the most useful I've
read on this list in a long time. Except is 90db good or bad? What is the
KLR OEM rated at?
2) All the other lists I have been on do have some tolerance for this kind
of stuff, it _seems_ to depend on whether or not the bottom line info is
something the listers may want to know about.
3) Probably the worst effect of your chastising Andy is that Fred no longer
includes a like to his commercial site. This is a major bad thing. Several
times I have gone to the list searched for a Fred Hink post just to find a
link to his site. Now that's gone and the overall usefulness of the list is
diminished.
Your a good man Kurt, but I think I need to disagree with you on this call.
Jim Barthell
______________
Jim, I'm open to continuing to talk about this and other issues of direction
with the entire list (with you and others so long as it is a respectful
dialogue). While you and I have never met in person I've always enjoyed
your posts and will always remember the help you gave me when I was trying
to get Corbin to be more responsive to our needs.
I hadn't noticed about Fred, on the other hand, I told Andy offlist that
what happens is that people will do the work for him after they come to
value his contributions, "hey... check out Andy's new post on the Big Gun at
www...." This is what happened with Fred and Tim Bernard and Arne.... There
are (by my count) at minimum a dozen "vendors" who are present on this
list...present in the sense of subscribing and monitoring the messages and
having a stake in the dualsport market. If each of them referenced their own
enterprise at the rate of 1 in 4 posts (Andy's approximate ratio after
studying the archives)...the flavor of this list would be very very
different.
When Gino offered Dual Sport News to me one of the things he told me was the
hardest was balancing the intense interests of the various vendors that are
part of the dual sport enterprise. He wasn't wrong. It is one of the hardest
things. Each of them are entrepreneurs and very sensitive to perceived
favorite treatment. The approach I've always suggested is not "a blind
following of the rules" but to become part of the list community be actively
and generously sharing. Then when a moment comes when they can't resist
sharing a new product or article or solution the list will understand it as
a balanced contribution along with their many other posts. In fact, Andy is
starting on this path, a path that has been blazed first and foremost by
Fred, Arne, Tim, Chris, Tom Meyers and a few others I'm sure I'm missing. I
just had this same conversation with Mike at Dual Star, who suffers so badly
when his service or products are critqued. I said, "Mike, become a part of
the list, share your love of the sport...and let everything else take its
course."
Kurt
klr stuff...list notes and a question
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2001 11:35 am
by punkynsquirt@cs.com
Hi kurt: Damn good thinking -- I think. Keep up the good work. Your
explanation was perfect. It's a difficult job and I'm glad your doing it to
the best of your ability. You can't please all the people all the
time...........
Lew Waterman