Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2000 5:06 pm**

KORG'ers- Well, I have concluded that the front brake on my A5 is pretty much useless even with the stainless steel brake line. I really don't feel safe with it on the roads (dirt, no prob) and it especially worries me when I am two up with my SO... I test drove an old 86 Connie a couple days ago and I remembered what real motorcycle brakes are like! I was practicing my emergency braking (about 35 to 0) in a parking lot with the Connie and the bike would simply SLOW DOWN quickly. It would not lock up no matter how hard I tried... Quite a revelation for a KLR-only guy like me. I was thinking that MAP makes a good oversize rotor and in order to use it they had to construct an adapter for the current stock caliper, but you're still stuck with the POS stock caliper. So.... What is the difficultly in making another bracket for a larger caliper? I am sure that there must be some fairly standard 2-piston or (heheheh) 4-piston calipers that we could use to upgrade the rather weak caliper that we're plagued by. Are there any standard mounting patterns for front brakes (modern ones, not the 70's technology we're stuck with)? I am wondering if we can exploit common calipers that might be easily found in scrap yards. What are the most common calipers or what would be a good set of calipers to design this for? I would love to hear about what you all feel would be good calipers to replace ours with. Preferably they would be easy to find in scrap yards, or generic enough to purchase new, and have pads, etc. readily available. I know nothing about brakes so all your help is most appreciated! My other idea is to entirely avoid the costly MAP rotor and simply graft a larger caliper onto the existing rotor. Now that I think about it, this would be preferable initially as it would be much less expensive. What I am not sure about is the ramifications of this on the stock rotor. To me a larger braking surface (pads) will only work better if the stock rotor can effectively disperse the increased thermal loading. So this would not be any better if I end up overheating the pads and glazing them over. Also would the difference between the arc of the caliper (or pads) and the arc of the rotor cause any problems? I am ready to dump some money into developing this idea if you all think that it would be worthwhile and could offer some help with the more technical aspects of it. I figure that an adapter made for a relatively standard mounting layout could offer us a whole slew of different calipers to use. Watcha all think? Is it a sound idea, or am I being totally brain-dead (it has been that kind of day at work)? Honest feedback and all suggestions appreciated! Thanks, Zack 1991 KLR650 1986 Concours (today!) SE DC

Posted: **Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:11 am**

>From: Zachariah Mully >Date: Tue Sep 12, 2000 3:06pm >Subject: Need help with ideas for better brakes! >KORG'ers- > Well, I have concluded that the front brake on my A5 is >pretty much useless even with the stainless steel brake line. I >really don't feel safe with it on the roads (dirt, no prob) and it >especially worries me when I am two up with my SO... > I am ready to dump some money into developing this idea if >you all think that it would be worthwhile and could offer some help >with the more technical aspects of it. I figure that an adapter made >for a relatively standard mounting layout could offer us a whole >slew of different calipers to use. > Watcha all think? Is it a sound idea, or am I being totally >brain-dead (it has been that kind of day at work)? Honest feedback >and all suggestions appreciated! >Thanks, >Zack >1991 KLR650 >1986 Concours (today!) >SE DC

I've met a guy who put the front fork and wheel of Honda's Africa Twin on his KLR. The wheel has two discs and brakes much better. What is more important, there is no twist when breaking hard - it just slows down radically. But, there's only one thing. The guy said the fork material (metal) is crap. Said he couldn't believe it when he bent the fork with pliers! Wanted to leave the upper part of the Kawa fork but had some problem with diameters. Got the Honda fork&wheel secondhand for 200$. One other thing when it comes to dual discs front on Kawas. A few months ago I saw a Kawasaki KLE twin just outside my flat. But, it wasn't a 500! The tank was KLR650 definitely, the carbs were CVK Keihin 40 mm - just like ours but two of them. It seemed like 850ccm. Had inverted front forks with dual discs (I myself don't like inverted forks, wonder how those were) and dual pads. The rear was just like our KLRs, only this bike had two pipes. Since it had no liscence plate and shined clean, I assumed the bike was new. But I haven't seen this KLE850 or whatever on the Internet. Only KLE and Twin was written on it and the V machine was silver, not black. Is it a new 2001 model or was it a selfmade bike? Anyone seen it? Good luck to Zachariah and others who solve the problem of our front brake, Deks, Croatia

Posted: **Wed Sep 13, 2000 5:47 pm**

> (one of the employees was once talking about a new engine that had > two > pistons per cylinder and said it was an 8 stroke. I swear to God.

If

> anyone knows something about it let me know cause I`m really > confused. > Was he right about this or was he just plain STUPID?????????)

There are indeed 8-stroke two piston motors and there are also six- stroke two piston motors, and probably lots of other motor designs we've never heard about. Inventors are called that because they are inventive.

Posted: **Wed Sep 13, 2000 6:56 pm**

By DOT 5, do you mean silicone brake fluid? If you want to use silicone brake fluid you will have to completely disassemble ALL of your brake components and remove ALL the old brake fluid and residue. This means takeing the seals off the caliper pistons, disassembling the master cylinder, Removing the brake lines etc. Anything that can come apart needs to to be cleaned. You can't mix DOT 3 or Dot 4 fluid with silicone. I did this to my old 69 Corvette and I think silicone works better. It costs alot more but doesn't absorb water and rust the steal parts. I don't know if the KLR has any steal parts in thier brakes but my Corvette did. Silicone also has a higher boiling point.

--- In DSN_klr650@egroups.com, "Razvan B" wrote: > Hi All. > > The newest KLR650-C6 at my dealer (I`m in Canada) has a dual piston > caliper in the front. > > Has anybody tried DOT 5 brake fluid. I`m pretty sure it will make a > diference. > > > Ride her hard. > > Raz > A8

Posted: **Thu Sep 14, 2000 3:18 am**

>From: Razvan B >Date: Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:24pm >Subject: Need help with ideas for better brakes! >Hi All. >The newest KLR650-C6 at my dealer (I`m in Canada) has a dual piston >caliper in the front. The disk looks something larger but I could be >wrong. I asked the dealer if it would fit on the A model but he said >NO. As I dont really trust my dealer...

The C model caliper would definitely not fit the A model. Not only that the disc is wider and larger, the whole front fork is different in size(around 40 mm) and material(metal). The C model is supposed to be a cheaper version of the KTM Duke and you can see that in the design of this model - it's a Funbike more than a DS/Enduro. What bothers is the lack of a tachometer (no rpm) which I believe is a must on any bike. The C model is more popular in France&Italy while the A model in Germany, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia.

>(one of the employees was once talking about a new engine that had >two pistons per cylinder and said it was an 8 stroke. I swear to >God. If anyone knows something about it let me know cause I`m really >confused. >Was he right about this or was he just plain STUPID?????????)

I spoke to a bike collector (70 and still riding) with more than 20 bikes in his home. He told me about the existence of such engines, even engines with one cylinder and two pistons. But all those designs were abandoned due to lousy efficiency.

>...I would like to see it for myself. If anyone has access to the >model C type calipers, could they try to see if it fits on a A model >KLR.

Since the disc is cca 2cm larger and 1-2 mm wider, even if you fit the caliper on the A fork, it would be no use.

>You can see the C model at www.kawasaki.ca >The KL650-C6. If you look at the front caliper, it is almost double >the size of the KLR650-A14 caliper. >One day if I have the time and money I will rent the KL650-C6 bring >it >to my house and try to fit the caliper on my A8... And if I have the >guts bring back the C model with my old caliper..and laugh like DR. >Evil HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...... >Also I`m wondering if the caliper of any other Kawasaki would fit >on the KLR. Or maybe the whole front end of lets say a Concours... If >the Honda front end worked then why not.

Changing the caliper does not necessarily mean the braking will improve. It could even result in more fork twisting while braking hard. And then what? You wanna slow down from 120kmh to 60kmh and the whole front end starts singing "Dancing With Myself"... I would rather change the whole front end - it may be more expensive (sometimes not, if secondhand) but more secure.

>Has anybody tried DOT 5 brake fluid. I`m pretty sure it will make a >diference.

I dont have problems with front brake oil overheating. Why change brake oil? Might be better to change the line or the brake pads. And less fuss.

>Ride her hard.

Oh yeah. That's the way she likes it.

>Raz >A8

Good wind & riding, Deks, Croatia

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2000 8:48 pm**

Razvan B wrote:

> > Hi All. > > The newest KLR650-C6 at my dealer (I`m in Canada) has a dual piston > caliper in the front. The disk looks something larger but I could be > wrong. I asked the dealer if it would fit on the A model but he said > NO. As I dont really trust my dealer... > > (one of the employees was once talking about a new engine that had > two > pistons per cylinder and said it was an 8 stroke. I swear to God. If > anyone knows something about it let me know cause I`m really > confused. > Was he right about this or was he just plain STUPID?????????) > > ...I would like to see it for myself. If anyone has access to the > model C type calipers, could they try to see if it fits on a A model > KLR. > > You can see the C model at www.kawasaki.ca > > The KL650-C6. If you look at the front caliper, it is almost double > the size of the KLR650-A14 caliper. > > One day if I have the time and money I will rent the KL650-C6 bring > it > to my house and try to fit the caliper on my A8... And if I have the > guts bring back the C model with my old caliper..and laugh like DR. > Evil HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...... > > Also I`m wondering if the caliper of any other Kawasaki would fit on > the KLR. Or maybe the whole front end of lets say a Concours... If

Mmm...looks like the Canadians are now getting the "UK", "Euro" or "Aussi" version, as we Americans would call them. I wonder if were next? Bet you money that it is the same caliper that they used on the Tengai, and thus non interchangeable. -Tom Right? '96 KLR 650

Posted: **Mon Sep 18, 2000 8:56 pm**

Zachariah Mully wrote:

> I was thinking that MAP makes a good oversize rotor and in order to use it > they had to construct an adapter for the current stock caliper, but you're > still stuck with the POS stock caliper. So.... What is the difficultly in > making another bracket for a larger caliper? I am sure that there must be > some fairly standard 2-piston or (heheheh) 4-piston calipers that we could > use to upgrade the rather weak caliper that we're plagued by. > My other idea is to entirely avoid the costly MAP rotor and simply graft a > larger caliper onto the existing rotor. Now that I think about it, this > would be preferable initially as it would be much less expensive. What I am > not sure about is the ramifications of this on the stock rotor. To me a > larger braking surface (pads) will only work better if the stock rotor can > effectively disperse the increased thermal loading. So this would not be any > better if I end up overheating the pads and glazing them over. Also would > the difference between the arc of the caliper (or pads) and the arc of the > rotor cause any problems?

If you push that little non-floating rotor hard with that big 'ole vice grip of a caliper, you will pump so much heat into it that it will be warped to destruction in very short order. Get the MAP rotor and use quality pads (I prefer DP) and it will do pretty darned well at getting you stopped. No two-finger stoppies, but impressive enough. And I haven't warped the hell out of it yet, either. -Tom '96 KLR 650

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2000 6:57 am**

Tom Simpson wrote: [...]

> If you push that little non-floating rotor hard with that big 'ole vice > grip of a caliper, you will pump so much heat into it that it will be > warped to destruction in very short order.

Not in my KLR600 experience. I've had my bike on a race track and faded the both brakes at every lap, first turn was a hairpin at the end of a long straight and which made the second turn a bit more interesting. One long hard use from 100mph is enough to fade the little pads, the fluid was ok. I never got a warp out of it, but did get some bluing on the disc. Mister_T

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2000 7:08 am**

Ted Palmer wrote:

> > Tom Simpson wrote: > [...] > > If you push that little non-floating rotor hard with that big 'ole vice > > grip of a caliper, you will pump so much heat into it that it will be > > warped to destruction in very short order. > > Not in my KLR600 experience. I've had my bike on a race track and > faded the both brakes at every lap, first turn was a hairpin at the > end of a long straight and which made the second turn a bit more > interesting. > One long hard use from 100mph is enough to fade the little pads, the > fluid was ok. > I never got a warp out of it, but did get some bluing on the disc.

Isn't the 600 a fair bit lighter than a 650? That may be an issue. I had a friend who had fitted a caliper off of a FJ600 to his KLR and warped the every-living heck out of his rotor in short order. He then fitted a rotor off of the same wrecked FJ and a home-made adapter bracket to get enough standoff. Now *that* is a KLR that stops.

-Tom '96 KLR 650

Posted: **Tue Sep 19, 2000 8:12 am**

Razvan B wrote:>> Hi All.>

>>The newest KLR650-C6 at my dealer (I`m in Canada) has a dual piston >>caliper in the front. The disk looks something larger but I could be >>wrong. I asked the dealer if it would fit on the A model but he said >>(one of the employees was once talking about a new engine that had >two >>pistons per cylinder and said it was an 8 stroke. I swear to God. If >>anyone knows something about it let me know cause I`m really> >confused. >>Was he right about this or was he just plain STUPID?????????)> >>...I would like to see it for myself. If anyone has access to the >>model C type calipers, could they try to see if it fits on a A >>model >>KLR.> >>You can see the C model at www.kawasaki.ca> >>The KL650-C6. If you look at the front caliper, it is almost double >>the size of the KLR650-A14 caliper.> >>One day if I have the time and money I will rent the KL650-C6 bring> >>it >>to my house and try to fit the caliper on my A8... And if I have the >>guts bring back the C model with my old caliper..and laugh like DR. >>Evil HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......> >>Also I`m wondering if the caliper of any other Kawasaki would fit on >>the KLR. Or maybe the whole front end of lets say a Concours...

Tom wrote:

> Mmm...looks like the Canadians are now getting the "UK", "Euro" >or >"Aussi" version, as we Americans would call them. I wonder if were >next? > Bet you money that it is the same caliper that they used on the >Tengai, >and thus non interchangeable. >-TomRight?'96 KLR 650

---------------- ---------------- Tom, It seems you got too much money to spend. The KLR 650 C series has got the same fork, disc and caliper as the KLE 500. The disc is 2cm larger and 1 to 1.5 mm wider than our disc. The fork is 40-41mm, while ours and Tengai forks are 37-38mm. The caliper of the KLE500 and KLR650C is not made for the disc KLR650A and Tengai bikes have, so why put it there? The Tengai has the same caliper as the KLR650A, but different than the KLR650C and KLE500. Oh, almost forgot: our bikes (KLR650A and Tengai) brake better than KLR650 and KLE500 Kawas even though the two latter have bigger&wider discs and bigger calipers. But, if you want to brake harder or make a lowside slide, no need to change tha caliper. Change lines, pads, etc, - it's cheaper! Only if you wanna do "stoppies" will you have to put a whole different front end with double discs and everything... Take care, Deks, Croatia _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com

Wilsons Sandbox

missed shifts

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!

need help with ideas for better brakes!