Wilsons Sandbox

In a message dated 06/22/2000 4:03:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dweeks@... writes:

> .......... I'd like to get a bit more top out of the throttle. Will have

an

> IDS with ? disks, have drilled airbox, Dyno Jet Needle, 152 main > (considering bigger, but I need air up here is the problem ,7500 feet is > home base), stock pilot and the idle mixture set screw at 2.5 turn out. I > actually haven't had it running with all that set up, but hey while it's > mostly apart. Any xperience or wisdom out there?

xperience - yes; wisdom- ???, opinions- yes. Boring out the carb would be one of the last things I would do. The venturi is where the low pressure area is created and the fuel is draw up through the jet circuit to be atomized. More area = equal lower velocity = poor atomization = burppp, gurggle, sputter, your low and mid range throttle response will likely suffer (JMHO). I use to race small bore 2-strokes where throttle was pinned all the time and rowed the gear box up and down to change speed. Yes, our bored out carbs *seemed* to make more top end power but at the sacrifice of everything else. I'm sure you could put 'er on a dyno with the bored out carb and tune for more peak power, but I wonder how many humps and bumps there would be at the *normal* throttle settings - where you spend most of your time. But more importantly, I think you should carefully consider *change analysis*. Seems to me you have changed soooooo many things on your bike that it has the potential to be a tuner's nightmare! That said, if you do the pipe and jets, you can piddle around and get it like you want it - all it takes is time and determination. But once you bore that carb out, it aint so easy putting the metal back in if it don't run like you had envisioned. Knot ps: Like your seat mods, send pics - pleeeezzz

> >xperience - yes; wisdom- ???, opinions- yes. Boring out the carb would be >one of the last things I would do. The venturi is where the low pressure >area is created and the fuel is draw up through the jet circuit to be >atomized. More area = equal lower velocity = poor atomization = burppp, >gurggle, sputter, your low and mid range throttle response will likely suffer >(JMHO). I use to race small bore 2-strokes where throttle was pinned all the >time and rowed the gear box up and down to change speed. Yes, our bored out >carbs *seemed* to make more top end power but at the sacrifice of everything >else. I'm sure you could put 'er on a dyno with the bored out carb and tune >for more peak power, but I wonder how many humps and bumps there would be at >the *normal* throttle settings - where you spend most of your time. > >But more importantly, I think you should carefully consider *change >analysis*. Seems to me you have changed soooooo many things on your bike >that it has the potential to be a tuner's nightmare! That said, if you do >the pipe and jets, you can piddle around and get it like you want it - all it >takes is time and determination. But once you bore that carb out, it aint so >easy putting the metal back in if it don't run like you had envisioned. > >Knot > >ps: Like your seat mods, send pics - pleeeezzz

Knot, Your insight is uncanny. I was browsing the archives before my post and much information is to be had there about our wonderful carbs. But I didn't gather enough info about modifying our stock carbs. I reflected on my post as soon as I received it and realized that the pressure differential wouldn't be enough, however, at this altitude I figured that less fuel and more air would be better and that carefully selected jets and needle position would compensate. I digress... sudden flow differences would cause the hiccups that you mentioned and I would have a very difficult time tuning those out. I am not in the least bit worried about my mixed soup of mods, an orthogonal matrix of variable selection/reduction with all the variables present will almost always present the optimum solution. Take out a variable and you'll end up have to re-do the matrix and start almost at ground zero. After starting with a new variable each time the total time spent is much more if you go one at a time... However, you need a cool head a good understanding of what changes do what.... G knot you should come visit for a week or so. I think I'll check some salvage yards for a larger CV with the required sizes already engineered in. Then I'll get rid of my air-box and make a real screamer. OOps getting ahead of myself again.... See how easily excited I get? Perhaps this winter will only involve a port and polish and a shaving of the head to raise the compression a smidge. Anybody do that yet on the KLR? Thanks a bunch Knot.... I'm still striving to make the Pikes Peak event and if I add any more stuff to my plate I'll be lucky to get to it next year. LaterZ Dash Pics are on the way. Daryl went riding all day today and said that my new saddle may not make it to my bike.... But I'll just make it better next time...... Luckily it is the wrong color for his bike.

> Knot, > > Your insight is uncanny. I was browsing the archives before my post and > much information is to be had there about our wonderful carbs. But I > didn't gather enough info about modifying our stock carbs. I reflected on > my post as soon as I received it and realized that the pressure > differential wouldn't be enough, however, at this altitude I figured that > less fuel and more air would be better and that carefully selected jets

and

> needle position would compensate. I digress... sudden flow differences > would cause the hiccups that you mentioned and I would have a very > difficult time tuning those out. > > I am not in the least bit worried about my mixed soup of mods, an > orthogonal matrix of variable selection/reduction with all the variables > present will almost always present the optimum solution. Take out a > variable and you'll end up have to re-do the matrix and start almost at > ground zero. After starting with a new variable each time the total time > spent is much more if you go one at a time... However, you need a cool

head

> a good understanding of what changes do what.... G knot you should come > visit for a week or so. > > I think I'll check some salvage yards for a larger CV with the required > sizes already engineered in. Then I'll get rid of my air-box and make a > real screamer. OOps getting ahead of myself again.... See how easily > excited I get? > > Perhaps this winter will only involve a port and polish and a shaving of > the head to raise the compression a smidge. Anybody do that yet on the

KLR?

> > Thanks a bunch Knot.... I'm still striving to make the Pikes Peak event

and

> if I add any more stuff to my plate I'll be lucky to get to it next year. > > LaterZ > Dash

Dash, you`re right in you needing a larger bore carb for your altitude. If power is what your after, then you need more air. A really free-breathing intake would be the first step. If that`s not enough, then go to a larger bore carb. If you do a little head shaving, remember, you might condemn your bike to a diet of premium fuel only, limiting your options when traveling, especially in the mid-west, which is loaded with methanol at the pumps. and not always labeled. Skip

>Dash, If you do a little head shaving, remember, you might condemn your >bike to a diet of premium fuel only, limiting your options when traveling, >especially in the mid-west

You mean we have to refuel these things??? Well Sheewwt!! Seriously, beautiful work Dash, I'm way jealous. Jim Jackson II A13 - South Carolina ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

> If you do a little head shaving, remember, you might condemn your bike to >a diet of premium fuel only, limiting your options when traveling, >especially in the mid-west, which is loaded with methanol at the pumps. and >not always labeled. > >Skip >

So, just out of curiosity where in the mid-west would one have such problems. Here in Iowa, one of the states that push alcohol as a fuel additive, the pumps are plainly labeled as to whether ethanol, not methanol, has been added to the fuel. The only time I get ethanol "enhanced" gas is when I don't pay enough attention and grab the wrong handle. On my trip from Iowa to Utah I had no problems evading the dreaded ethanol. Ethanol is quite easy to detect in gas by odor alone. If you know what vodka smells like you would recognize the ethanol in your gas. By the way, most premium fuel around here doesn't have ethanol in it, the last time I checked. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa

> So, just out of curiosity where in the mid-west would one have such > problems. Here in Iowa, one of the states that push alcohol as a fuel > additive, the pumps are plainly labeled as to whether ethanol, not > methanol, has been added to the fuel. The only time I get ethanol > "enhanced" gas is when I don't pay enough attention and grab the wrong > handle. On my trip from Iowa to Utah I had no problems evading the dreaded > ethanol. Ethanol is quite easy to detect in gas by odor alone. If you know > what vodka smells like you would recognize the ethanol in your gas. By the > way, most premium fuel around here doesn't have ethanol in it, the last > time I checked. > Alan Henderson A13 Iowa >

Sorry, I meant ethanol. They legally don`t have to label it if it`s below 10%. At those levels, it`s not always easy to tell by smell, that`s why pilots with auto gas STC`s ( permission to legally use it) are admonished to use ethanol test kits when buying fuel, especially in the plains states. I bought some in Nebraska and didn`t test it till I got home, and it was around 8% , and I swear you couldn`t smell it. And the pump wasn`t labeled either. Skip

At 03:00 PM 6/24/2000 -0600, you wrote:

>Did you fuel in Utah? If so, what area, if you remember. One entire county >uses ethanol during the winter. The majority of the pumps are not marked. > >DAngus > > Sorry, I meant ethanol. They legally don`t have to label it if it`s below >10%. At those levels, it`s not always easy to tell by smell, that`s why >pilots with auto gas STC`s ( permission to legally use it) are admonished to >use ethanol test kits when buying fuel, especially in the plains states. I >bought some in Nebraska and didn`t test it till I got home, and it was >around 8% , and I swear you couldn`t smell it. And the pump wasn`t labeled >either. > >Skip >

Well you learn something new every day. I think all the "enhanced" gas in Iowa is 10 percent and there definitely would be a lower level that you couldn't smell the ethanol anymore. So, how much do the test kits cost and where would you get them? I'm not that worried about it for the bike but am just curious again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa he who tries to stay away from alcohol most of the time

At 04:09 PM 7/3/2000 -0600, Kurt Simpson wrote:

> > Is it normal to have rust in the gas tank? > > >Brad? of course not... > > > > What is the proper method to clean the rust from the tank? > > >Buy the Kreem kit and do all the steps except adding the latex liner....so, >it is...remove the tank, drain the gas...add some solvent or Kerosene...put >a handful of nuts and bolts in the tank and shake shake shake...drain the >solvent...filter the solvent....add the solvent and shake shake shake...for >about a week after work (g)...when you're satisified...drain, tip the tank >upside down and get all the nuts and bolts out.....rinse again with solvent >and get all the rust out...remove the petcock...make a gasket where the >petcock used to go...add the acid solution and make sure it gets to etch all >of the inside surfaces...rinse according to directions...it will turn the >remaining rust and the inside of the tank a nice dull gray...no you're all >set if you keep the tank full with Stabil in the offseason it won't rust >again... > >Kurt

I did this very thing about three days ago. Though I didn't use KREEM. And I didn't use the nuts and bolts method. I used a generic brand of Naval Jelly from AutoZone. Pour some in and use a "extenda reacher" - tm with a swab of some sort to spread it around. Rinse with water.... Yes water.... And repeat as necessary. Oh yeah I had the petcock off when I was doing all of this. Then do a final rinse and then re-rinse with Kero. Then I used some Marvel Mystery Oil to coat the inside of the tank while it sits and waits to be installed and re-filled. I got all of the heavy rust down in the bottom just fine, I couldn't reach the light surface rust way up top, so that will have to wait until my winter session. I did Skip's tank mod at the same time. Sorry about the lack of pictures on the project. I've missed my 4th Deadline but I did get a whole bunch of stuff done recently, I've been working frantically and didn't stop for photos. Soon to be complete. Waiting on my new s-bend, as it is ready to fire up. Installed all the relays and new wiring for the 210 watts of illumination up front. Man those are bright, I'm still seeing spots. Also did the new running lights and blinkers. I have found that the stock flasher won't flash my new Lockhart Phillips' Stubbies, off to AutoZone for lunch. Installed a brake light modulator, very nice. More to come.... LaterZ Dash