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[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 4:12 pm
by bill e goat
is cupping
> pretty bad.
Do they need to
> be put on a certain way so they don't cup? Is there > anyway to get rid of the cupping, without buying new > tires?
Motorcycles just cup the front tires.....they just do it. Some do more than others, but they seem to all do it....or at least every one of the twenty or so I've had....it's just a matter of degree. My KLR cups its front tires as well....It has cupped a Dunlop K750, in about 2500 miles, and three Maxxis 6006s in the other 12000 miles it done on pavement and dirt. They just do it. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 4:47 pm
by Tom Myers
> is cupping >> pretty bad. >Do they need to >> be put on a certain way so they don't cup? Is there >> anyway to get rid of the cupping, without buying new >> tires? > >Motorcycles just cup the front tires.....they just do >it. Some do more than others, but they seem to all do >it....or at least every one of the twenty or so I've >had....it's just a matter of degree. My KLR cups its >front tires as well....It has cupped a Dunlop K750, in >about 2500 miles, and three Maxxis 6006s in the other >12000 miles it done on pavement and dirt. They just >do it.
"They just do it......." can't really say it better, but an engineer will always try, won't they? Here is a shortened version of the enginerd explanation. Every time the tire goes around, the pavement slaps it. This rhythmic slapping creates a "standing wave" near the contact patch on the pavement. The radius of the "cup" might be related to the radius of 'bend' created as the tire tread bends from "round" to "flat" and returns to "round" again every time its slapped. The tire probably scrubs pretty hard on the pavement as it's being bent form round to flat. You can try higher tire pressure or longer wheelies. Best to try to forget about it or the enginerds won't give you any peace. Tom -- +------------------------------------+ | CycoActive Products tel (206) 323-2349 | 701 34th Ave fax (206) 325-6016 | Seattle, WA 98122 USA | website: http://www.cycoactive.com | e-mail: TomMyers@... +------------------------------------+

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 5:03 pm
by k650dsn@aol.com
In a message dated Tue, 13 Jun 2000 5:48:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tom Myers writes: >>
Yep, even when they don't know the answer. I've noticed that it is worse on thumpers. I know a guy who road a, ahem... bike from Bavaria, that cupped it's front tires and would not accept the answer that that was normal. When all was said and done, his dealer had ordered 3 new front wheels and was stuck with them and the guy basically made them take the bike back. I know you aren't supposed to do this, but on non-directional tires like the MT21, I just flip the tire around. It rides pretty rough for a while, but you get your money out of it. Gino

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 5:15 pm
by tebklr@aol.com
Ah yes, but the answer is...........uneven pressure distribution on the tread pattern. The areas of higher contact pressure with the pavement scrub more as they deform from a rounded profile to the flat contact patch as they rotate on to the pavement (the pavement does not "slap" the tire). Ergo, more wear, hence cupping. It's a trade off in m/c tire design, and one that m/c tire engineers spend A LOT of time trying to manage. After all, the tire companies definitely want you as repeat customers. The car guys have it a bit easier; with their essentially "flat" profiles, their tires only have to deform longitudinally (with a lot less potential for cupping), but m/c tires must deform longitudinally and laterally. How's THAT for the engineering side?!!?!?!?!? HA! Tom >>
Yep, even when they don't know the answer.
>>

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:38 pm
by Jeff Walker
> "They just do it......." can't really say it better, but an engineer > will always try, won't they? >
OK!
> Here is a shortened version of the enginerd explanation. > > Every time the tire goes around, the pavement slaps it. This > rhythmic slapping creates a "standing wave" near the contact patch on > the pavement. The radius of the "cup" might be related to the radius > of 'bend' created as the tire tread bends from "round" to "flat" and > returns to "round" again every time its slapped. The tire probably > scrubs pretty hard on the pavement as it's being bent form round to > flat. >
Ah yes, the rolling without slipping of a semi-riged object problem. Here's a real mind blowing concept for people: The velocity of the contact patch is zero. This is called the instantaneous zero velocity point. If the tire contacts the ground at the contact patch, and the tire isn't slipping or skidding on the ground, then the relative velocity between the contact patch and the ground is zero. Therefore since the ground has zero velocity, so must the contact patch. This means that the contact patch must decelerate from its curvilinear and rotational velocity it had to zero when it contacts the ground, then accelerate again. I know, you say, impossible, but its true. I have a photograph of a spoked wheel that is rolling without slipping. The spokes of the wheel's region that is in contact with the ground are in clear focus, and the spokes elsewhere are blurred. This is what causes the "rhythmic slapping" that creates a frequency of oscillation, or standing wave. The way to minimize cupping is to have your tire dynamically balanced. Any extra mass on the perimeter of the wheel/tire creates larger forces in the tire's material due to the need for greater deceleration/acceleration forces. Also, proper tire inflation helps a lot. More tire inflation, more rigid tire, less cupping. However, this also means harsher ride and squaring off the tire in the middle.
> You can try higher tire pressure or longer wheelies. Best to try to > forget about it or the enginerds won't give you any peace. >
Hey! I resemble that! Jeff

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 7:24 pm
by Tom Myers
>In a message dated Tue, 13 Jun 2000 5:48:50 PM Eastern Daylight >Time, Tom Myers writes: > >"They just do it......." can't really say it better, but an engineer >will always try, won't they? > >> > >Yep, even when they don't know the answer.
*especially* when they don't know the answer..... Tom -- +------------------------------------+ | CycoActive Products tel (206) 323-2349 | 701 34th Ave fax (206) 325-6016 | Seattle, WA 98122 USA | website: http://www.cycoactive.com | e-mail: TomMyers@... +------------------------------------+

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2000 7:56 pm
by Jeff Walker
> *especially* when they don't know the answer..... >
Hey! Don't even make me whip out the math on you! We're talking a multi degree of freedom system here with damping. It is hard enough to describe mathematically (which would require Laplace transformations and Heaviside's theorems), let alone trying to describe it without any math so its understandable and correct. Jeff

[dsn_klr650] what causes tire cupping?

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2000 8:34 am
by Ted Palmer
bill e goat wrote: [...]
> Motorcycles just cup the front tires.....they just do > it.
[...] Mine don't do it enough to notice. Mister_T

ims klr fuel tank

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2000 3:48 pm
by LawsonCL@aol.com
In a message dated 6/14/00 2:42:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time, dweeks@... writes:
> Not sure I want a sweaty tank though. I'll check into it.
Is it a given that the IMS tank sweats? Or is it that all plastic tanks sweat? I remember the early plastic BMW R1100GS tanks and their bubbling decals. That had to be embarrassing for BMW, not to mention expensive, when they replaced them all with metal tanks under warranty. Chris Lawson