Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Mon Apr 17, 2000 6:24 am**

Cdekmg@... wrote:

> I read discussions in the archives about this, and it would seem that > looser is better than tighter. Sorry, I had archive search burnout and hope > this question isn't beating a dead dog too badly.

We have a remarkable capacity to resurrect dead horses with plenty of volunteers to flog them.

> With heavier riders, 2-up, luggage, etc., the manuals spec of slack seems > too tight. I'm light, and with luggage and my weight, there is not much slack > left, far less then the 5-6 inches of suspension travel left over.

If you were really keen on getting the slack spot-on, you could minimise the shock preload and weight the bike so that the output shaft, swingarm pivot and axle centres all lined up, then adjusted the chain tension so it was snug (but not tight) at this point. In theory, the factory already did this and that is how they came up the unladen-on-sidestand figure. All this assumes a new chain and sprockets. A worn chain with its own tight spot will throw measurements out a bit.

> So, from what I read/per the manual it would seem that excessive > chain/sprocket wear could result from inadequate slack.

Yes, and true on the vast majority of chain drive bikes. This excludes some older Bimota designs where the swingarm pivot was coaxial with the output shaft for the very purpose of eliminating chain tension variation.

> My main question is: could a tight chain result in damage to the > countersprocket shaft bearings?

Yes. It won't do the swingarm pivots any good either.

> Has anybody ever had these bearings fail or > need replacing? Why did it happen, do you think it was the result of not > enough chain slack?

Not me yet.

> It would seem that for the average rider with the chain adjusted to spec, > that if you go 2-up with luggage (or even less weight) that the chain is > stretched tight all the time.

Shouldn't really happen, but you would end up with the chain somewhere near it's tightest point in the rear axle arc of travel.

> What kind of problems have people had because of lack of slack? Or, are > these bearings really, really tough? It would seem they would have to be to > take all that force and torque.

The bearing is fairly tough, and as long as the engine is running it is fairly well lubricated. A friend of mine managed to wear out a bearing because he did a downhill "race" with the engine off (this was on a GPz900 which uses a similar output shaft bearing lube system). Running the chain too tight can also do odd things to the frame alignment at a certain point in the swingarm travel. Mister_T -- \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\ | RC17 KLR600 Roces BCN P430VAEM FreeBSD 2.2.5-R | | Team RC17 Australia http://replicant.apana.org.au/~viking/ | \|_________________________________________________________________|

Posted: **Mon Apr 17, 2000 8:16 pm**

>From: Cdekmg@... >To: DSN_klr650@egroups.com >Subject: [DSN_klr650] Chain slack questions/Countersprocket bearings >Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:42:27 EDT > > I read discussions in the archives about this, and it would seem that >looser is better than tighter. Sorry, I had archive search burnout and hope >this question isn't beating a dead dog too badly. > With heavier riders, 2-up, luggage, etc., the manuals spec of slack >seems >too tight. I'm light, and with luggage and my weight, there is not much >slack >left, far less then the 5-6 inches of suspension travel left over. > So, from what I read/per the manual it would seem that excessive >chain/sprocket wear could result from inadequate slack. > My main question is: could a tight chain result in damage to the >countersprocket shaft bearings? Has anybody ever had these bearings fail or >need replacing? Why did it happen, do you think it was the result of not >enough chain slack? > It would seem that for the average rider with the chain adjusted to >spec, >that if you go 2-up with luggage (or even less weight) that the chain is >stretched tight all the time. > What kind of problems have people had because of lack of slack? Or, >are >these bearings really, really tough? It would seem they would have to be to >take all that force and torque. >TIA, >Charles

Hey Charles,KLR listers, I have some first hand experience with this chain drive tension thread. Keep in mind I have a 1990, and Kawi changed the countershaft sprocket retainer with the 1996 model, I believe. However this sprocket retainer is basically the same part, only difference is the later models use a single 27mm nut instead of the two bolts on the pre-96 models. My experience has been that if the chain is too tight the countershaft sprocket retainer will fail before any damage is done to the countershaft bearings. Once a cycle mechanic had my chain way too tight, and I went on a 400 mile DS trip to Yosemite Park. ( I should have double-checked his work, but didn't). When I returned to within 1/2 mile of my home, the countershaft retainer finally failed so that the countershaft would slip while trying to turn the sprocket, but there was no apparent bearing damage. With a properly set up rear shock( including the stiffer Progressive spring) you shouldn't notice to much of a difference with the chain tension when going from an unloaded bike to a bike with 2 people. If your chain tension varies dramatically with the load you're carrying may I suggest a stiffer spring and/or new shock. So always check your chain tension after varying the load you're carrying, until you get a feel for how the load affects the tension. And don't have any downhill coasting contests with the engine off, as Mr.T pointed out. Apparently the KLR needs the engine to be runnin to keep those bearings lubed and turning freely. Hope this helps. Conall ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Posted: **Mon Apr 17, 2000 9:08 pm**

>From: magier@... >Reply-To: magier@... >To: "Conall O'Brien" , Cdekmg@..., >DSN_klr650@egroups.com >Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Chain slack questions/Countersprocket bearings >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:44:59 GMT > >-- MODERATELY LARGE SNIP -- > >My experience has been that if the chain is too tight the countershaft > >sprocket retainer will fail before any damage is done to the countershaft > > >bearings. Once a cycle mechanic had my chain way too tight, and I went >on >a > >400 mile DS trip to Yosemite Park. ( I should have double-checked his >work, > > >but didn't). > >When I returned to within 1/2 mile of my home, the countershaft retainer > >finally failed so that the countershaft would slip while trying to turn >the > > >sprocket, but there was no apparent bearing damage. >--------------------MAJOR SNIP!!!-------------------- > >Conall > > >------------------------- >Conall et al, > >A little clarification would be helpful for me. Having JUST replaced my >front >sprocket for the first time, I'm not sure what you mean when you say the >countershaft >would slip while trying to turn the sprocket. My sprocket has a spline that >mates the to countershaft, and a metal "retainer" washer which is also >splined, >then the 27 mm nut. I don't see how the countershaft could slip inside the >sprocket, >unless the spline were stripped which seems almos impossible (not to >mention >disastrous). > >Mike Magier >98 KLR650 GroundHog >99 ST1100 Sweetness

Hey Mike, Well you got me on that one, I probably misspoke. All I know is when the countershaft retainer was replaced it took care of the problem. And the problem was that the countershaft would not drive the sprocket/chain which was caused by having the chain too tight. That's about all I know. LOL. Maybe the design change in '96 changes all that, I don't know. Bob Wing you out there? You had the same problem. Conall ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Posted: **Wed Apr 19, 2000 1:18 am**

Conall, Glad to hear of your enjoyable time at Songdog. From earlier reports one might think our time was only filled with disaster, drinking, and daredevil stunts. What impressed me the most was the mellow circle, of about 20 folks, around a campfire. Happy Trails....until we meet again...... Slide KLR650@... wrote:

> > I wish to thank the Cal Posse ( Toby, Redondo Ron and everyone else) for > the excellent time on Sat. at The Songdog Ranch. > I packed up the KLR with the Ortlieb Dry Bags, Aerostitch Tank Panniers, > and duffle bag on the rear rack. I found that I could fit a offroad > helmet in one of the Ortlieb bags and wore the Doutech for the ride from > Fremont CA. to Cuyama Valley. > Lanesplitting down Hwy 101 South, a van merged into me. This was not the > first time my Acerbis Rally pro guards saved my hands from making > contact with a vehicle, and I'm sure it won't be the last. > I was traveling about 5-10 mph faster than the other traffic and this > van merged into me from the right lane. My 400 lb KLR, with me at 195 > lbs, and a full set of luggage slammed into the side of the van with a > convincing THUD. The driver let out a string of obscenities and I kept > in control not falling, not even putting a foot down. I was lucky it was > a van with a nice flat surface to bang against. I merged back into the > center of the two lanes and passed the van without any further problems. > Must have been quite a thing to witness! The tank panniers and dry bags > definitely helped take the blow, and the elbow and shoulder protection > of the Motoport Ultra2 jacket was there when I needed it. > I got off 101 near Gilroy, and headed to Hollister. From there , I took > 25 South through the Pinnacles Nat'l Monument, picking up 198 to > Coalinga. Both 25 and 198 are really nice twisty roads with great > scenery along the whole route. > I then jumped on Hwy 5 south. Boring. 1 mile seems like 10 miles. After > 60 miles I got off near Buttonwillow and went through Kern County. Lots > of oil drilling rigs out here and not much else. 33 south over the hill > to Taft was twisty and scenic. Picked up 166 in Maricopa to go into > Cuyama Valley. Cuyama valley is huge, large corporate farms growing > carrots, I believe. > I wanted a hot shower, so I checked into the Buckhorn Motel in New > Cuyama. > Next day I met my friend Chet who trailered his DR350 from Anaheim. > Songdog Ranch is a great place. Having been to Moab before, I can say > Songdog is also a great meeting place for KLRs. There is a bunkhouse on > the top of the hill, an adobe style building. > Met lots of KLR owners and contributors to the list. Went on a short > ride up to the meadow with the Posse. Knowing that Toby was about to > lead us up a goat ridge trail that was about 20 inches wide with sheer > dropoffs on both sides, I elected not to go to the edge and returned > back to the camp with several others. I would have continued but was > running the radial Gripsters and wasn't sure if I should. > All in all a awesome time and I hope we can do it again, maybe in Sept? > The next day I bombed back home on Hwy 101 driving time was 4 hrs. 15 > mins. > Thanks people, > Conall

Wilsons Sandbox

[dsn_klr650] thanks to the cal posse

[dsn_klr650] chain slack questions/countersprocket bearings

[dsn_klr650] chain slack questions/countersprocket bearings

[dsn_klr650] chain slack questions/countersprocket bearings

[dsn_klr650] thanks to the cal posse