question re side cases - luggage

[Mike Peplinski]

I used that Lucas crap in my BMW transmission (as recommended) and it has never shifted the same sinse. Before Lucas it just shifted very noisy. The BMW "clank". After Lucas it would not shift at all. It refused to go into gear without hammering on the shifter. I removed the Lucas immediately and the trans shifted, but with much more difficulty. I view Lucas as just another "snake oil" additive, like "Motor Honey" or STP motortreatment. Then there is "tuneup in a can". You gotta love em. If this stuff was so good don't you think the oil manufacturers would incorporate similar additives into their product? My mantra is "change oil often, use good oil, and go ride". Regardless of whether you use Rotella, Royal Purple, Mobile 1 or Castrol the KLR engine will last a long time with regular oil changes. The reality of it is that the vast majority of us will never wear the engine out. We'll ride it and some day it will just blow up, crash or disintegrate, none of which will be due to the oil we use. Ride often, ride safe.

>From: Robert Waters >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: oil question >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:33:42 -0700 (PDT) > >I use Castrol synthetic 5w 50 and add about a cup of Lucas. I have to >special order through local parts store and it is about $7.00 a quart. Any >comments? > rw > > > > > > TotalHealth.bz > Focus On Truth > > > >--------------------------------- >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! >FareChase. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

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[Mike Peplinski]

Norm, this is one of the best explanations of the technical side I've ever seen. I feel I've learned something today, so now I can go back to bed. Thanks for the input. BTW I'm pretty sure the Rotella wasn't 0W40, right?

>From: "Norm Keller" >Reply-To: "Norm Keller" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:37:01 -0700 > >Given that I'm not competent to specify lubrication for the KLR, I advise >that you stay within the recommended viscosity range and meet or exceed the >API requirements set by Kawasaki. That's the safe answer. > >I run Rotella 0W40 much if the time because I have measured oil pressures >over a wide range of operating conditions and find that it maintains >between six and ten PSI at highway speeds at ambient temperatures up to >90F. > >While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be some >fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation to >lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin film of >lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from >"friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge. > >Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do with the >oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to the thin oil >film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by the rolling >elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more important than >it's viscosity. > >Modern engine oils contain a number of performance enhancing materials as >part of the additive package. A heavy viscosity engine oil of SAE 50 with >no EP (Extreme Pressure) additives will fail to protect the rolling >elements or a bearing or the teeth of a gear set while an SAE Zero which >contains adequate EP additives, will perform satisfactorily. > >It also must be recognized that one of oil's most important duties is to >carry heat from the bearing for dissipation from the engine. Even a small >amount of friction will overheat a bearing or gear set unless this heat >production is removed from the friction area. A lighter oil will tend to >flow in greater volume so may out perform a heavier (thicker viscosity) oil >in the ability to remove heat. > >A less viscous oil will create less friction and so less heat which may >mean that the less viscous oil may be thinned by heat to a lesser degree >such that the less viscous oil may be of similar viscosity once the more >viscous oil has been heated by its internal liquid friction. > >Modern automotive engines are using lower viscosity oils (lower SAE number) >than in the past and both efficiency and engine life are increasing. >Virtually all of these new engines use a similar >camshaft-bearing-as-part-of-the-cylinder-head configuration as does the >KLR. If an '08 Honda Civic is happy with a good EP oil of very light >viscosity, why would the same not be expected of the KLR? > >Consider the reports of wear to the camshaft bearing surfaces in the KLR >head. Of better, consider the lack of such reports. The total lack. This is >the same state as automotive and bike engines in general. > >On the other hand, if you want to have problems with camshaft bearings, run >a very high viscosity oil which will deliver virtually no oil flow under >cold conditions! > >Without significant oil flow in the camshaft bearing journal areas, the >only protection for the surfaces is the EP performance of the oil. > >The oil's EP additives are of crucial importance for the camshaft during >starting and warm-up as well as of crucial importance for the rolling >element (ball and roller) bearings and gears under all conditions. > >I'm willing to bed you a box of donuts that you can do an oil analysis of >that light oil at the end of the oil change interval (providing that the EP >performance is up to par) and find that no unusual wear has occurred. > >I am also willing to bet a box of donuts that you will not have a similar >level of success by trying the same with a straight SAE 50 oil. > >There is far to much weight (pun intended) placed on the use of a heavier >SAE oil and not enough consideration over the oil's additive package. I >suppose that this is because people believe that they understand something >about the oil's characteristics, based on the theory that thicker oil >lubricates better than thin oil. > >This is not true. > >Automatic transmission oil has an SAE viscosity of about a 10 weight engine >oil. This is far thinner than an SAE 90 gear oil which is about as thick as >a 50 weight engine oil. > >Both oils perform satisfactorily in an automotive differential (rear axle) >under warm conditions. In below zero operation, the ATF is far superior. >The thinner oil has adequate EP performance and is able to flow into areas >where the oil has been wiped away far better than the thicker oil. > >Please don't accept the myth that thicker oil performs better than thinner >oil. There is much more involved in specifying an adequate lubricant than >choosing the thickest available. > >HIH > >Norm > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

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[Mike Peplinski]

I vote "yes". Isn't it about time for a "best tire" thread. Oops, sorry, we save that one for winter.

>From: "Don Pendergraft" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:38:01 -0500 > >Some say oil preference is like a religion to motorheads. No. It's more >serious than that. I'm not qualified to comment on the merits >such >esoteric issues. However, I can say that this type of discussion is what I >enjoy about the list. Facinating stuff. Keep it up gents! > >Don+ > > _____ > >From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Mike >Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:04 PM >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, >"E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > Regardless, 6 to 10 psi is the KLR oil pressure spec. Never heard of >anybody who > > measured oil pressure of a KLR who got anything but that under >normal operation. Tends > > to freak people out, but (shrug). If you want super-long life, go >buy a Honda Civic. High > > oil pressure indicates that the oil isn't flowing efficiently, which >isn't what you want. I > > think Patman measured the oil filter bypass pressure once and it >wasn't very high either. > > Of course, too-low oil pressure isn't good either, because it won't >push the oil up into the > > cylinder head, it'll all be running out of lower ports. But 6 to 10 >psi isn't too-low, it's KLR > > spec. > > > > As for the notion of running 20W50 (or any other XW50) in the KLR, >it is completely not > > needed and counter productive. Running thick oils in motorcycles is >a practice that dates > > back to early air-cooled Japanese and British bikes which might as >well have been called > > "wish-cooled" because they just didn't understand cooling systems >back then. The oil got > > well above the boiling point of water in those bikes and fell out of >spec below the viscosity > > where the oil pump could maintain reasonable oil pressure. Starting >out with a thicker oil > > helped stave off that process. But we have a water-cooled bike, and >if you maintain your > > cooling system properly, the oil barely exceeds the boiling point of >water if I'm recalling > > Patman's oil temperature measurements correctly. Oils don't fall out >of spec under those > > conditions. I personally prefer running a diesel-type oil because >the tables I've seen show > > that it has EP performance similar to 20W50 oils but is not too >thick for the KLR's primitive > > oil pump to effectively pump, and the additive package is far >superior to automotive oils. > > I'm running Shell Rotella T 5w40 because it's cheap and available at >my local Wally World, I > > wouldn't hesitate to recommend any other diesel oil in the KLR. > > >Eric, >Because it's what happens in the KLR doesn't always mean it's the best >- any chance you might agree with that as a general statement? > >The pressure will be low, due to the design of the system. The r/h >exhaust bearing often shows scuffing. This bearing is at the end of >the system, and the pressure reading is not taken there........... > >I agree with you on the use of diesel oils. A few of them I've looked >at and used have worked well. > >General notes: >This summer I'm running 20-50 full synthetic syntec. The bike is >shifting well. No ugly noises at any time, including startup. When I >get to 2K miles It'll be analyzed. > >The clatter heard on startup would probably be cam on valve shim, as >if you hear clatter in the cam bearings you have big problems. The >KACR can also make noise. > >A "premium" motorcycle specific oil recently wore cam lobes in just >2000 miles. This oil shared down 25% in this test. There's been very >good results from the 5-50 syntech so far, going by lack of wear on >the cam lobes, etc. > >all the best, > >Mike > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

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[Mike Peplinski]

Right you are. Fred Hink is one cool guy. His attitudes and business practices make KLR ownership a pleasure. As far as that other thread, I'm one posting away from suspending both of them from my list for a week. I"m starting to wear the print off my "delete" key.

>From: Michael Nelson >Reply-To: michaelnel@... >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:57:58 -0700 > >On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 12:50:10PM -0700, Michael Nelson wrote: > > I'm a little distressed to see a couple guys I like and respect greatly > > taking public potshots at each other here. > >Oops! I had mistakenly thought the Fred in this thread was Fred Hink of >Arrowhead. He's the Fred I like and respect, and was distressed to see him >acting like this other Fred has been. > >Never mind. > >Michael > >-- >"Do you think that when they asked George Washington for ID he just whipped >out a quarter?" --Steven Wright > >San Francisco, CA > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

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[mbetcher]

That's not too surprising, really. Obviously the Lucas additive had no effect on the BMW's dry clutch, but its increased viscosity probably decreased the amount of "roll down" time for the transmission to stop spinning when disengaged from the engine, which is quite short in BMWs to begin with (by design). If the gears were not well aligned when they stopped turning it would be difficult for the shifting dogs to engage, and even more difficult if the transmission is bathed in a sluggish oil. I would think any high-viscosity additive would have the same effect. I doubt if non-BMWs would experience this problem, but I don't know the effect Lucas additive might have on our wet clutches. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" wrote:

> > I used that Lucas crap in my BMW transmission (as recommended) and

it has

> never shifted the same sinse. Before Lucas it just shifted very

noisy. The

> BMW "clank". After Lucas it would not shift at all. It refused to go

into

> gear without hammering on the shifter. I removed the Lucas

immediately and

> the trans shifted, but with much more difficulty. I view Lucas as just > another "snake oil" additive, like "Motor Honey" or STP motortreatment.

[Norm Keller]

Rotella T SB 0W40 in a 4 litre jug. I bought it from Canadian Tire in Chilliwack. Do you have it in your area? Norm

>BTW I'm pretty sure the Rotella wasn't 0W40, >right?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Harry Seifert]

..............lo, and a peacemaker was brought forth. And his name was Arden. Now let's go eat!!!!!! Buddy

> [Original Message] > From: Arden Kysely > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 8/21/2007 3:26:19 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > Did I miss something? Norm posted his opinions on oil, Mike disagreed > with some of them in what I thought was a respectful way, Fred got > bent. > > Nothing like a good oil thread to bring out the best in this list 8~) > > KLR content: I'm confused by the report on the link that Mike > forwarded because the guy says not to use 10W-40 in any bike that > shares tranny/engine oil, then recommends several of that weight. > FWIW, I've run gallons of 10W-40 GTX thru many bikes over the years > and never had an oil related problem. Now I'm on a 15W-40 Rotella T > kick in my KLR. I figure if you stay away from the mileage enhancing > stuff, there is good oil and better oil. The hard part is stiking a > balance between cost, performance, and being kind to the planet in > choosing your lube. Those on the list who do oil anaylses and report > them here do us all a great service. > > __Arden > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[Fred Hink]

There is or "was" another Fred on this list that may or may not have got "Bent". It wasn't me. What's for lunch? Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com

----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Seifert To: Arden Kysely ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question ..............lo, and a peacemaker was brought forth. And his name was Arden. Now let's go eat!!!!!! Buddy > [Original Message] > From: Arden Kysely > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 8/21/2007 3:26:19 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > Did I miss something? Norm posted his opinions on oil, Mike disagreed > with some of them in what I thought was a respectful way, Fred got > bent. > > Nothing like a good oil thread to bring out the best in this list 8~) > > KLR content: I'm confused by the report on the link that Mike > forwarded because the guy says not to use 10W-40 in any bike that > shares tranny/engine oil, then recommends several of that weight. > FWIW, I've run gallons of 10W-40 GTX thru many bikes over the years > and never had an oil related problem. Now I'm on a 15W-40 Rotella T > kick in my KLR. I figure if you stay away from the mileage enhancing > stuff, there is good oil and better oil. The hard part is stiking a > balance between cost, performance, and being kind to the planet in > choosing your lube. Those on the list who do oil anaylses and report > them here do us all a great service. > > __Arden > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Harry Seifert]

I have two pounds of fresh, Mexican tiger shrimp and an hot redhead waiting for me at home..............which would you prefer????? The shrimp I can freeze and package. the redhead, I'm not so sure................ Buddy

> [Original Message] > From: Fred Hink > To: ; Arden Kysely ;

DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>

> Date: 8/23/2007 12:15:25 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > There is or "was" another Fred on this list that may or may not have got

"Bent". It wasn't me.

> > What's for lunch? > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Harry Seifert > To: Arden Kysely ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:00 PM > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > > ..............lo, and a peacemaker was brought forth. And his name was > Arden. Now let's go eat!!!!!! > > Buddy > > > [Original Message] > > From: Arden Kysely > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: 8/21/2007 3:26:19 PM > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > > > Did I miss something? Norm posted his opinions on oil, Mike disagreed > > with some of them in what I thought was a respectful way, Fred got > > bent. > > > > Nothing like a good oil thread to bring out the best in this list 8~) > > > > KLR content: I'm confused by the report on the link that Mike > > forwarded because the guy says not to use 10W-40 in any bike that > > shares tranny/engine oil, then recommends several of that weight. > > FWIW, I've run gallons of 10W-40 GTX thru many bikes over the years > > and never had an oil related problem. Now I'm on a 15W-40 Rotella T > > kick in my KLR. I figure if you stay away from the mileage enhancing > > stuff, there is good oil and better oil. The hard part is stiking a > > balance between cost, performance, and being kind to the planet in > > choosing your lube. Those on the list who do oil anaylses and report > > them here do us all a great service. > > > > __Arden > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[Arden Kysely]

Fred Hink in Moab, That distinction was made in someone's earlier post, but since not everyone reads every post, including me, I'll make it here again: Fred from Arrowhead Motorsports is not the bent Fred. He's straight as an, uh, arrow! We just had a tri-tip BBQ here at work and I'm stuffed. Can we talk about lunch tomorrow? __Arden

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > > There is or "was" another Fred on this list that may or may not have got "Bent". It wasn't me. > > What's for lunch? > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Harry Seifert > To: Arden Kysely ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:00 PM > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > > ..............lo, and a peacemaker was brought forth. And his name was > Arden. Now let's go eat!!!!!! > > Buddy > > > [Original Message] > > From: Arden Kysely > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: 8/21/2007 3:26:19 PM > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re:oil question > > > > Did I miss something? Norm posted his opinions on oil, Mike disagreed > > with some of them in what I thought was a respectful way, Fred got > > bent. > > > > Nothing like a good oil thread to bring out the best in this list 8~) > > > > KLR content: I'm confused by the report on the link that Mike > > forwarded because the guy says not to use 10W-40 in any bike that > > shares tranny/engine oil, then recommends several of that weight. > > FWIW, I've run gallons of 10W-40 GTX thru many bikes over the years > > and never had an oil related problem. Now I'm on a 15W-40 Rotella T > > kick in my KLR. I figure if you stay away from the mileage enhancing > > stuff, there is good oil and better oil. The hard part is stiking a > > balance between cost, performance, and being kind to the planet in > > choosing your lube. Those on the list who do oil anaylses and report > > them here do us all a great service. > > > > __Arden > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >