t.p.i motorcycle wholesalers

[James A III]

Steve, That's a thoughtful and well reasoned argument, but my point was that the market can take care of whether or not the airlines, or even particular airlines, are serving a need to our economy. I suspect if the cheap (subsidized) airtravel is more of a luxury item than the way it is currently priced. The will always be a need for rapid transit, I just don't think it needs to be on the scale or public expense at which we currently enjoy(?) it.

> James, > > I'm thinking inexpensive and rapid continental and

intercontinental travel is one of the linchpins that sustains the world's continued economic development.

> > I tend to believe that certain public-benefit functions are so

inherently valuable to the well-being of the populace that they should enjoy public financial support if necessary - Interstate highways, a solid military, libraries, public schools, etc. But, if the decision to support these functions was left to individual citizens many would choose to not fund them because they feel they don't personally benefit from them. There are retirees in my city who publicly chafe at the thought of their taxes going to fund the public schools - from their perspective they're not getting any benefit from it.

> > Seems to me this is 'well, I don't use it' approach is not really

reasonable. Are there excesses? Yes. Are there inefficiently run public works or subsidies for private enterprises? Yes. But for the bulk of these supported functions there is national interest in maintaining the infrastructure, such as the airlines. What if the commercial phone system was not profitable? Or medical care? Just let them shrivel and disappear?

> > Should everyone in the country have a line-item tax payment form

that lets them elect to not pay taxes toward the public services/government programs they do not approve of or feel they do not use?

> > I'd like to see these people live in the resulting country where

everyone felt the same way and put their own personal interests first. Better round up a horse, cause there won't be any public transportation infrastructure to bitch about. No postal service, no law enforcement, no public education or legal system. Without those fundamental anchors of modern society/commercial stability there won't be enough economic activity to sustain wages for everyone, so there won't be money to -not- pay taxes with.

> > Steve

[Mike Frey]

Yes, that's what it was. I was not at computer between my last post and this one. I was inviting debate on the subject. I'd be the first person in line to sign up for a more reliable and comprehensive identification process - i.e., retinal scans. There are many people who see that as an infringement of their civil liberties and privacy. Not me. I travel enough to be able to read the coded lines on an airline ticket, and know that the airlines know more about you than you think they might. Even so, I have had the "SSSS" on my ticket and was thoroughly searched - most recently on New Years Day when I wound up in Boston due to a missed flight when the computer system said I was in Philadelphia. Switched flight AND airline. SSSS! And, yeah, a pat down and bag search. Did I mind? Not really. Michael Silverstein wrote:

> I took Mike's post to indicate that he was indeed suggesting retinal > scans as a way to keep terrorists off airplanes, and was not not > complaining, but I could be wrong. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of jokerloco9@... > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:18 PM > To: mike21b@... ; > DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? > > So I guess speed limits and stop signs are too limiting to your personal > liberties? > > It is very easy to complain about something. It is much harder to find a > solution to a problem. > > I hate the government as much as anybody. Try to travel with a target > gun. I gave up. > > What would YOU do to keep terrorists off of airplanes???-? We would all > like to know.. > > Jeff A20 > > -----Original Message----- > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:mike21b%40dejazzd.com"mike21b@dejazzd.-com > To: HYPERLINK > "mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_klr650@... > > Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? > > I want to buy an airplane! Probably will, at some future point. The > allure of flying is as powerful as the desire to ride bikes, just quite > a bit more expensive. > > How many list members would be willing to be subjected to retinal scans > for confirmation of your identity, background, etc., assuming that the > result is safer travel and more efficient passage through security? > > Mike > 1 hour from FAA checkride > > ____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email > and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: > 8/10/2006 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: > 8/10/2006 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

[Douglas Bouley]

Seems like the only difference between having to show ID and submitting to a retinal scan is that the latter is more reliable than the former. And possibly faster? Sounds like a pretty reasonable idea to me... unless one is to argue that "They" have no business knowing who "we" are in the first place. -doug Mike Frey wrote:

> Yes, that's what it was. I was not at computer between my last > post and this one. I was inviting debate on the subject. > > I'd be the first person in line to sign up for a more reliable and > comprehensive identification process - i.e., retinal scans. > > There are many people who see that as an infringement of > their civil liberties and privacy. Not me. > > I travel enough to be able to read the coded lines on an airline > ticket, and know that the airlines know more about you than you > think they might. Even so, I have had the "SSSS" on my ticket > and was thoroughly searched - most recently on New Years > Day when I wound up in Boston due to a missed flight when > the computer system said I was in Philadelphia. Switched flight > AND airline. SSSS! And, yeah, a pat down and bag search. > Did I mind? Not really. > > Michael Silverstein wrote: > > >> I took Mike's post to indicate that he was indeed suggesting retinal >> scans as a way to keep terrorists off airplanes, and was not not >> complaining, but I could be wrong. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >> ] On >> Behalf Of jokerloco9@... >> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:18 PM >> To: mike21b@... ; >> DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? >> >> So I guess speed limits and stop signs are too limiting to your personal >> liberties? >> >> It is very easy to complain about something. It is much harder to find a >> solution to a problem. >> >> I hate the government as much as anybody. Try to travel with a target >> gun. I gave up. >> >> What would YOU do to keep terrorists off of airplanes???-? We would all >> like to know.. >> >> Jeff A20 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: HYPERLINK "mailto:mike21b%40dejazzd.com"mike21b@dejazzd.-com >> To: HYPERLINK >> "mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_klr650@... >> >> Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 8:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? >> >> I want to buy an airplane! Probably will, at some future point. The >> allure of flying is as powerful as the desire to ride bikes, just quite >> a bit more expensive. >> >> How many list members would be willing to be subjected to retinal scans >> for confirmation of your identity, background, etc., assuming that the >> result is safer travel and more efficient passage through security? >> >> Mike >> 1 hour from FAA checkride >> >> ____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_ >> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email >> and IM. All on demand. Always Free. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug Herr]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Michael Silverstein wrote:

> Sure, why not. I'd fly naked too if it got me to my destination faster.

Sorry, not so easy. Every time I show up naked at the airport there is some sort of hoo ha about it. Go figure. -- Doug Herr doug@...

[Michael Silverstein]

I don't think any of the 9/11 terrorists were operating under false identities so that may not help. If we want certainty, we'll have to accept that thorough baggage searches must be performed and accept limits on what can be brought aboard. If we want them to be fast about it then we'll either need to employ better technology (x-ray, whatever), more screeners, or to get over our reluctance to selectively search passengers based on whether they fit a particular profile. From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Bouley Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 4:00 PM To: Mike Frey Cc: KLR List Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? Seems like the only difference between having to show ID and submitting to a retinal scan is that the latter is more reliable than the former. And possibly faster? Sounds like a pretty reasonable idea to me... unless one is to argue that "They" have no business knowing who "we" are in the first place. -doug Mike Frey wrote:

> Yes, that's what it was. I was not at computer between my last > post and this one. I was inviting debate on the subject. > > I'd be the first person in line to sign up for a more reliable and > comprehensive identification process - i.e., retinal scans. > > There are many people who see that as an infringement of > their civil liberties and privacy. Not me. > > I travel enough to be able to read the coded lines on an airline > ticket, and know that the airlines know more about you than you > think they might. Even so, I have had the "SSSS" on my ticket > and was thoroughly searched - most recently on New Years > Day when I wound up in Boston due to a missed flight when > the computer system said I was in Philadelphia. Switched flight > AND airline. SSSS! And, yeah, a pat down and bag search. > Did I mind? Not really. > > Michael Silverstein wrote: > > >> I took Mike's post to indicate that he was indeed suggesting retinal >> scans as a way to keep terrorists off airplanes, and was not not >> complaining, but I could be wrong. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_KLR650@...

>> [mailto:HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_KLR650@...

>> -] On >> Behalf Of HYPERLINK "mailto:jokerloco9%40aol.com"jokerloco9@aol.-com

>> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:18 PM >> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:mike21b%40dejazzd.com"mike21b@dejazzd.-com

;

>> HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_klr650@...

>> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with

me?

>> >> So I guess speed limits and stop signs are too limiting to your

personal

>> liberties? >> >> It is very easy to complain about something. It is much harder to

find a

>> solution to a problem. >> >> I hate the government as much as anybody. Try to travel with a target >> gun. I gave up. >> >> What would YOU do to keep terrorists off of airplanes???--? We would

all

>> like to know.. >> >> Jeff A20 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: HYPERLINK

"mailto:mike21b%-40dejazzd.-com"mike21b@-dejazzd.--com

>> To: HYPERLINK >> "mailto:DSN_-klr650%40yahoogr-oups.com"HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogro-ups.com"DSN_klr650@...

>> >> Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 8:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with

me?

>> >> I want to buy an airplane! Probably will, at some future point. The >> allure of flying is as powerful as the desire to ride bikes, just

quite

>> a bit more expensive. >> >> How many list members would be willing to be subjected to retinal

scans

>> for confirmation of your identity, background, etc., assuming that

the

>> result is safer travel and more efficient passage through security? >> >> Mike >> 1 hour from FAA checkride >> >>

____________--________-_-_______-__-______-___-_____-____-____-_____-_

>> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email >> and IM. All on demand. Always Free. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: HYPERLINK

"http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html"http://www.ang elfir-e.com/ut/-moab/klr650_-data_search.-html

> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.-com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/-klr650faq.-html > Member Map at: HYPERLINK

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> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Frey]

>> What would YOU do to keep terrorists off of airplanes???? We >> would all like to know..

That s the easiest question to answer but the hardest to accomplish: 1) Find them 2) Kill them

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Aug 11, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Mike Frey wrote:

> I'd be the first person in line to sign up for a more reliable and > comprehensive identification process - i.e., retinal scans. > > There are many people who see that as an infringement of > their civil liberties and privacy. Not me.

Depends on how they're done. If they'd simply do a match, return the result, and not keep any record of such a match being done, no problem. But, when we get into Big Brother tracking the movements of everyone, *even if they aren't under investigation*, then I have a big problem with it. My original post was born out of frustration. I'm a frequent traveler--usually one round-trip a week, sometimes visits to multiple cities per week. My job requires this. To make the most efficient use of my time, I carry-on all my luggage and I carry food and drink onto the plane. Now, with this inane new "security" rule I have to spend at least two hours at the airport prior to take-off, and now I also have to wait for my luggage to be off-loaded before I can start heading to the client or home. If the rule was the same for everyone maybe I wouldn't be so frustrated, but it isn't. If I'm carrying a small kid I can bring whatever liquids I want. If I'm a terrorist, that's a hole in the rules I can easily exploit. So, air travel has become much more time consuming and less comfortable *while providing no additional security*. The same thing happened with the TSA screeners. We now have tens of thousands of new Federal employees, all unionized, working hard to concentrate large numbers of folks in a small area (i.e. the waiting line at the security checkpoint). If I was a terrorist I could quite easily walk up to the checkpoint and detonate my suicide vest, killing far more people than if the same number of folks had been nicely spread out at their individual gates. No one would stop me, search me, or question me before I got to the security line where I, the hypothetical bomber, wanted to blow myself up. And we call this security? It's not, folks! It's a dog and pony show to make you think you're safer, but you honestly aren't. The Federal leach has attached yet another sucker to your wallet to fund a grand illusion to make you think you're safe. Instead, you're probably in more danger than ever AND the government has chipped away at your essential liberties, AND they've grown even more powerful in the process. I'm all for doing the real, hard work that actually does make us safer--boots on the ground kickin' butt where there are hard targets, HUMINT from deep cover operatives to bust open plans (like the Brits just did), and aggressive monitoring of people who associate with known terrorists. We're in a war that we need to win, and we can't ham-string ourselves. But by the same token we can't let the terrorists win by allowing their threat of something bad happening to justify the loss of our essential liberties. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/blakeblog/> http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[Don S]

With the risk of being politically incorrect, a program should be implemented to vigilantly screen ALL persons leaving from any country who sponsors terrorist be it clandestinely or openly. All persons coming from the above mentioned origins should be pulled through a keyhole in search of any evidence whatsoever that may relate them to terrorist activity. In addition to the above, designated airlines must be used to transport them if in fact they are cleared. They must travel on the airline of the country of their origin regardless of where they are. If they are from country X and that country's national airline flies from the country they want to leave, that person must use their own nation's air line. If their country doesn't fly from there, too bad. By making any suspect passengers use their own country's airline, if they do hatch a plan, they'll be taking down mostly their own nationals. Thus creating resentment at home for their actions. If the terrorist continue to get through, then it would be time to implement part two of the above plan. That would be that ALL nationals from countries with a history of exporting terrorism, must use their own country's airline. Whenever terrorist manage to implement a plan, it's because our system of democracy and freedom have allowed cracks for them to get through. Sometimes, we must compromise our freedom somewhat for security. To make it tough on terrorists to get things done will require some sacrifice from all of us. If so, so be it. Don Michael Silverstein wrote: I don't think any of the 9/11 terrorists were operating under false identities so that may not help. If we want certainty, we'll have to accept that thorough baggage searches must be performed and accept limits on what can be brought aboard. If we want them to be fast about it then we'll either need to employ better technology (x-ray, whatever), more screeners, or to get over our reluctance to selectively search passengers based on whether they fit a particular profile. From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Bouley Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 4:00 PM To: Mike Frey Cc: KLR List Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with me? Seems like the only difference between having to show ID and submitting to a retinal scan is that the latter is more reliable than the former. And possibly faster? Sounds like a pretty reasonable idea to me... unless one is to argue that "They" have no business knowing who "we" are in the first place. -doug Mike Frey wrote:

> Yes, that's what it was. I was not at computer between my last > post and this one. I was inviting debate on the subject. > > I'd be the first person in line to sign up for a more reliable and > comprehensive identification process - i.e., retinal scans. > > There are many people who see that as an infringement of > their civil liberties and privacy. Not me. > > I travel enough to be able to read the coded lines on an airline > ticket, and know that the airlines know more about you than you > think they might. Even so, I have had the "SSSS" on my ticket > and was thoroughly searched - most recently on New Years > Day when I wound up in Boston due to a missed flight when > the computer system said I was in Philadelphia. Switched flight > AND airline. SSSS! And, yeah, a pat down and bag search. > Did I mind? Not really. > > Michael Silverstein wrote: > > >> I took Mike's post to indicate that he was indeed suggesting retinal >> scans as a way to keep terrorists off airplanes, and was not not >> complaining, but I could be wrong. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_KLR650@...

>> [mailto:HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_KLR650@...

>> -] On >> Behalf Of HYPERLINK "mailto:jokerloco9%40aol.com"jokerloco9@aol.-com

>> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:18 PM >> To: HYPERLINK "mailto:mike21b%40dejazzd.com"mike21b@dejazzd.-com

;

>> HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogroups.com"DSN_klr650@...

>> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with

me?

>> >> So I guess speed limits and stop signs are too limiting to your

personal

>> liberties? >> >> It is very easy to complain about something. It is much harder to

find a

>> solution to a problem. >> >> I hate the government as much as anybody. Try to travel with a target >> gun. I gave up. >> >> What would YOU do to keep terrorists off of airplanes???--? We would

all

>> like to know.. >> >> Jeff A20 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: HYPERLINK

"mailto:mike21b%-40dejazzd.-com"mike21b@-dejazzd.--com

>> To: HYPERLINK >> "mailto:DSN_-klr650%40yahoogr-oups.com"HYPERLINK

"mailto:DSN_klr650%40yahoogro-ups.com"DSN_klr650@...

>> >> Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 8:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR: Anyone want to buy a plane with

me?

>> >> I want to buy an airplane! Probably will, at some future point. The >> allure of flying is as powerful as the desire to ride bikes, just

quite

>> a bit more expensive. >> >> How many list members would be willing to be subjected to retinal

scans

>> for confirmation of your identity, background, etc., assuming that

the

>> result is safer travel and more efficient passage through security? >> >> Mike >> 1 hour from FAA checkride >> >>

____________--________-_-_______-__-______-___-_____-____-____-_____-_

>> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email >> and IM. All on demand. Always Free. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: >> 8/10/2006 >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: HYPERLINK

"http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html"http://www.ang elfir-e.com/ut/-moab/klr650_-data_search.-html

> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.-com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/-klr650faq.-html > Member Map at: HYPERLINK

"http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650"http://www.frappr.-com/dsnklr650

> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Hedrek]

> That s the easiest question to answer > but the hardest to accomplish: > > 1) Find them > 2) Kill them

Same for shoplifters - find them, kill them! Uhh, whatever happened to our proud American tradition of innocent until proven guilty, or at least declaring war against an identifiable enemy (no nouns for enemies please)? Those drones seem to kill alot of innocent people. A judge and a jury are good ways to make sure justice is done, much better than lame accusations from the street. Oooopa, I think that tradition is locked up in dog kennel in Guantanamo, or being raped in Abu Ghraib. Dude, next thing you'll be promoting is that Islamic eye for an eye thing! You know, the one where they (the evils ones with delicate feelings, who killed our guys for raping, killing then burning a teenage girl not long ago, and her family and friends, and then covering it up). Mmmm, maybe eye-4-eye is not so bad. There definitely are days that I'm happy I'm 54, with an expected life span of only a few years - even shorter if I ride this KLR like a 70's dirt bike! My poor kids - Bush's debt (they will not enjoy that estate tax cut I'm afraid), having to learn to speak Chinese and forced Church 5 days a week. Better hide a pig KLR out in the woods for them to ride too fast, and crash too. Hedrek ABQ (Disclaimer - I am a public defender, a Democrat usually, but I hate criminals, I hate cheats (welfare, corporate, CEO), I believe in justice and tolerance, and I am not afraid of terrorists. I never, ever, worry about a terrorist messing up my day. Not because the incompetent Bush admin. keeps me safe, but because very few people are really motivated to come here to hurt me, except the asshole gangster across the street in the park, who I probably represent. And most cops are good folks and cops are generally enough to catch criminals - the dumb ones and the smart ones.) Cheers! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Aug 11, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Hedrek wrote:

> Uhh, whatever happened to our proud American tradition > of innocent until proven guilty,

There has never been such a "tradition" for those we've declared war against. That tradition is a civil one, and war is not a civil matter. And, yes, Congress formally declared war against Al-Quaida, the Taliban, and all others who were involved in 9/11. Even better, since our enemies are not uniformed enemies they are not accorded the Geneva or Hague Conventions, despite the desire by some to extend such to them. See Article 1 of the Hague Convention http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/hague02.htm> for the insignia requirement.

> Dude, next thing you'll be promoting is that Islamic > eye for an eye thing! You know, the one where they > (the evils ones with delicate feelings, who killed our > guys for raping, killing then burning a teenage girl > not long ago, and her family and friends, and then > covering it up). Mmmm, maybe eye-4-eye is not so bad.

I don't believe that the soldiers who have been accused of the rape and murder (referred to as the Mahmudiyah incident ) have been proven guilty in a court of law (hey, that's your preference, right?). What happened to presumed innocent? Where's the decision of the judge and jury? Frankly, I'm much more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those poor SOB's who've put their lives on the line to protect my butt here at home. God Bless them all. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/blakeblog/> http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> San Jose, CA (USA)