fork oil, now atf

[Martin Earl]

59.7mpg?!?!?!?!? Do you ever drive over 45mph...which by the way, is the speed I have [previously] suggested one uses when you hit reserve and it is a long way to fuel.revmaaatin. who does not always follow his own advice (and...once spent over 5 miles coasting down hill with the engine off).

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Paul Whatley pwhatfourever@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I am anticipating my first valve clearance check shortly and likely valve adjustment and thought this might be the time to change the plug. Sounds like it is well enough left alone especially since I am consistently getting 59.7 mpg. But.... I have to ask. Has anyone tried these spark plugs? Diamondfire Electrode | E3 Spark Plugs [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fe3sparkplugs.com%2Fmedia%2Fpost%2Fchart.jpg&t=1571810295&sig=iQlRBrme1OT1KGDkkt5H2g--~E[/img] Diamondfire Electrode | E3 Spark PlugsE3 DiamondFire Spark Plug advanced electrode produces a flame to create more power while using less brake-specific fuel consumption than traditional designs.View on e3sparkplugs.comPreview by Yahoo [b]From:[/b] "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:22 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug +1 on what Martin & Jeff recommended. It's nasty to see how much sand is often sitting around the plug, ignored. I recommend blowing out the plug well area by way of the drain hole, as Jeff stated, and from the top, then turn the plug out a couple of turns, and blow again. Turning the plug out a bit often breaks loose stuck materials. The fuel in some areas isn't very compatible with palladium spark plugs. The top driveability techs in this area tell me that they don't last any longer than a standard plug, although in other areas they are better. I prefer to use the stock configuration of plug in NGK as they seem to perform better than others, other than perhaps Bosch which can be virtually identical in automotive applications. People will sometimes make hyperbolic claims which aren't borne out in testing, IME.

[Yahoo]

Actually, the fastest posted speed limit for my ten mile commute route is indeed 45 mph, though I typically do better than that, still 55 or less. P Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Martin Earl wrote:

59.7mpg?!?!?!?! Do you ever drive over 45mph...which by the way, is the speed I have [previously] suggested one uses when you hit reserve and it is a long way to fuel.revmaaatin. who does not always follow his own advice (and...once spent over 5 miles coasting down hill with the engine off). On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Paul Whatley pwhatfourever@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I am anticipating my first valve clearance check shortly and likely valve adjustment and thought this might be the time to change the plug. Sounds like it is well enough left alone especially since I am consistently getting 59.7 mpg. But....  I have to ask. Has anyone tried these spark plugs? Diamondfire Electrode | E3 Spark Plugs   [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fe3sparkplugs.com%2Fmedia%2Fpost%2Fchart.jpg&t=1571810300&sig=9mzl2h6w0_KO1gRPQSbxqQ--~E[/img]     Diamondfire Electrode | E3 Spark PlugsE3 DiamondFire Spark Plug advanced electrode produces a flame to create more power while using less brake-specific fuel consumption than traditional designs.View on e3sparkplugs.comPreview by Yahoo  [b]From:[/b] "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:22 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug   +1 on what Martin & Jeff recommended. It's nasty to see how much sand is often sitting around the plug, ignored. I recommend blowing out the plug well area by way of the drain hole, as Jeff stated, and from the top, then turn the plug out a couple of turns, and blow again. Turning the plug out a bit often breaks loose stuck materials. The fuel in some areas isn't very compatible with palladium spark plugs. The top driveability techs in this area tell me that they don't last any longer than a standard plug, although in other areas they are better. I prefer to use the stock configuration of plug in NGK as they seem to perform better than others, other than perhaps Bosch which can be virtually identical in automotive applications. People will sometimes make hyperbolic claims which aren't borne out in testing, IME. 

[achesley43@ymail.com]

I'll never forget my intro to NGK Spark plugs. Was in 1970 and I was riding a '69 Norton Commando Fastback 750 back and forth to work , 7 days on 7days off for Shell Oil. 280 miles one way before I 10 was complete here in S.Louisiana .  Every time I would have to slow to 35 mph or lower, the Champion plugs that were oem with this bike would foul and it would take a few miles at 65 mph to clear them. Stopped at a bike shop in New Orleans one time to get a new set and was tell the owner about the problem. He told me I needed to go to NGKs and not have that problem due to the copper core and wider heat range. Looked in his book and got me the right range for my bike. End of plug fouling for the rest of the time I had that bike. Been an NGK fan ever since. 

[klrbugeater]

BTW, talking KLR gas mileage: The entire length of the Blue Ridge Parkway is 45 mph. KLR's get good gas mileage on that. Try going 45 mph on a gentle twisty cool beautiful mountain road.  

Frustrating.

Skyline Drive, in the Shenandoah National Park, which is the north extension of the B.R.P., is 35 mph. 

Maddening.

The Tail of the Dragon/Deals Gap, in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park, which is 318 turns in 11 miles, is 30 mph.  

Insanely frustrating and maddening. Some screaming inside the helmet can occur.

KLR Bugeater (who got excellent gas mileage on all 3)

[achesley43@ymail.com]

Norm, 

I had googled vis vs fork oils and vis vs atf  a spell back. read so much stuff it wrecked my old head. LOL! Been an ATF user for many years. But, after just putting Gold Valves in the Bandit and KLR, I went with their recommendations on 8 wt for the KLR and 5 wt for the Bandit. I will so some adjusting with the KLR next fluid change. I don't ride hard so going for a soft front , but , don't want to change springs as I like the anti dive of the progressives I've had in there for the last 14 yrs. 

Did see the lower vis on the new ATFs .  But, what amazed me was the different vis on advertised weights from different manufactures. Some, a good bit of difference when tested for the same weight oil.  

[Norm Keller]

NGK bought Champion many years ago and I don't know if that had any impact on the products. In addition, development has progressed to an amazing degree in many areas. That said, and that I have not had the opportunity to do research as to spark plug performance in a couple of decades, we did compare all of the available spark plugs in a large number of vehicles over several years when I was teaching in automotive college programs. We obtained the common spark plugs for popular models from all of the makers which were available to us. When vehicles came into the shop, the engine was run on an engine analyzer to ascertain that it was in reasonable condition. Power balance tests confirmed that there were no weak cylinders, etc. At this point, two convenient cylinders were chosen for easy access. The spark firing voltage, spark voltage and duration recorded for those two cylinders. The spark plugs were exchanged for each of two plugs from those available and the voltages recorded. The record sheet was printed and placed into a box with year, make, model and engine condition assessment. At the end of the term, the spark information was averaged for each spark plug type. The results placed Bosch first with NGK so close as not to be significant. There was a significant gap before the other makes were quite well grouped, with another gap, then Champion. On average, Champion were worse than year old+ Bosch or NGK. I am willing to accept that there are weaknesses in the methodology and sample size. The largest automotive parts supplier in our part of the world removed Champion plugs from their own service departments & Champion were considered to be the worst plugs by technicians known to me, in the automotive field. Given that automobiles are not motorcycles and that quite some time has passed since this work, that's my observation. I don't buy their plugs because of the above experience, right or wrong in its conclusions. I do find it difficult to accept that Champion could not have rectified any problems.

[Fred Hink]

Fifty years ago when working in a Honda, Kawasaki, BMW, etc etc dealership, when I had a bike that wouldn t start, you could almost count on a plug being fouled.  And the most common reason for a fouled plug was because it was a Champion.  NGKs were better then and I believe still are.  NDs were not too bad and Bosch in BMWs hardly ever failed.  Champions used to work in relatively low compression car engines but as soon as you tried one in a higher compression motorcycle engine you had problems.  Today we have a whole different standard to work with.  Engines today are very high strung performance machines that take special equipment.  You don t find very many low compression motors any more and with fuel injection and the F1 technology that most engines are using it takes a special sparkplug to ignite this much denser fuel charge.  Honda uses the Iridium spark plugs in their HRC kits which tells me that they must not trust a standard plug to do it s job.    The KLR is a relatively low performance machine and the standard NGK sparkplug should be fine and last a very long time.  Sparkplugs are kind of like oil and tires.  It s all about what makes you feel good.  If it makes you feel good to spend twice the money for a better sparkplug, then go for it.  In other machines it might be necessary to use an Iridium sparkplug but in the KLR I have my doubts.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:38 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug     NGK bought Champion many years ago and I don't know if that had any impact on the products. In addition, development has progressed to an amazing degree in many areas. That said, and that I have not had the opportunity to do research as to spark plug performance in a couple of decades, we did compare all of the available spark plugs in a large number of vehicles over several years when I was teaching in automotive college programs. We obtained the common spark plugs for popular models from all of the makers which were available to us. When vehicles came into the shop, the engine was run on an engine analyzer to ascertain that it was in reasonable condition. Power balance tests confirmed that there were no weak cylinders, etc. At this point, two convenient cylinders were chosen for easy access. The spark firing voltage, spark voltage and duration recorded for those two cylinders. The spark plugs were exchanged for each of two plugs from those available and the voltages recorded. The record sheet was printed and placed into a box with year, make, model and engine condition assessment. At the end of the term, the spark information was averaged for each spark plug type. The results placed Bosch first with NGK so close as not to be significant. There was a significant gap before the other makes were quite well grouped, with another gap, then Champion. On average, Champion were worse than year old+ Bosch or NGK. I am willing to accept that there are weaknesses in the methodology and sample size. The largest automotive parts supplier in our part of the world removed Champion plugs from their own service departments & Champion were considered to be the worst plugs by technicians known to me, in the automotive field. Given that automobiles are not motorcycles and that quite some time has passed since this work, that's my observation. I don't buy their plugs because of the above experience, right or wrong in its conclusions. I do find it difficult to accept that Champion could not have rectified any problems.

[rharaseth]

WAY BACK in the very early 70s I picked up a BSA Victor 441.  Thought I'd be kind to it and bought a new spark plug for it.  A Champion. Put it in at the dealer, rode home. It never sparked again.  Caused me to get to know the ignition system very well on that old bike.  Couldn't believe it was a new plug until I finally installed the old plug and fired right up.  Never changed that original plug, and never used a Champion plug again.

Still kinda miss that old thumper.

Ron

[GMac999]

I ve found that most times you re better off using the brand plug the manufacturer supplied, especially with the car engines. I do know that my KZ650 was particular about what spark plugs to us. Champions were the worst, ND and NGK were the best mileage and performance wise in it.

 

I haven t ridden my KLR on the slab enough to tell.

 

GregM

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:41 PM [b]To:[/b] Norm Keller; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug

 

Fifty years ago when working in a Honda, Kawasaki, BMW, etc etc dealership, when I had a bike that wouldn t start, you could almost count on a plug being fouled.  And the most common reason for a fouled plug was because it was a Champion.  NGKs were better then and I believe still are.  NDs were not too bad and Bosch in BMWs hardly ever failed.  Champions used to work in relatively low compression car engines but as soon as you tried one in a higher compression motorcycle engine you had problems.  Today we have a whole different standard to work with.  Engines today are very high strung performance machines that take special equipment.  You don t find very many low compression motors any more and with fuel injection and the F1 technology that most engines are using it takes a special sparkplug to ignite this much denser fuel charge.  Honda uses the Iridium spark plugs in their HRC kits which tells me that they must not trust a standard plug to do it s job. 

 

The KLR is a relatively low performance machine and the standard NGK sparkplug should be fine and last a very long time.  Sparkplugs are kind of like oil and tires.  It s all about what makes you feel good.  If it makes you feel good to spend twice the money for a better sparkplug, then go for it.  In other machines it might be necessary to use an Iridium sparkplug but in the KLR I have my doubts.

 

Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:38 AM

[b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug

 

 

NGK bought Champion many years ago and I don't know if that had any impact on the products. In addition, development has progressed to an amazing degree in many areas. That said, and that I have not had the opportunity to do research as to spark plug performance in a couple of decades, we did compare all of the available spark plugs in a large number of vehicles over several years when I was teaching in automotive college programs. We obtained the common spark plugs for popular models from all of the makers which were available to us. When vehicles came into the shop, the engine was run on an engine analyzer to ascertain that it was in reasonable condition. Power balance tests confirmed that there were no weak cylinders, etc. At this point, two convenient cylinders were chosen for easy access. The spark firing voltage, spark voltage and duration recorded for those two cylinders. The spark plugs were exchanged for each of two plugs from those available and the voltages recorded. The record sheet was printed and placed into a box with year, make, model and engine condition assessment. At the end of the term, the spark information was averaged for each spark plug type. The results placed Bosch first with NGK so close as not to be significant. There was a significant gap before the other makes were quite well grouped, with another gap, then Champion. On average, Champion were worse than year old+ Bosch or NGK. I am willing to accept that there are weaknesses in the methodology and sample size. The largest automotive parts supplier in our part of the world removed Champion plugs from their own service departments & Champion were considered to be the worst plugs by technicians known to me, in the automotive field. Given that automobiles are not motorcycles and that quite some time has passed since this work, that's my observation. I don't buy their plugs because of the above experience, right or wrong in its conclusions. I do find it difficult to accept that Champion could not have rectified any problems.

[Fred Hink]

I ve had a few classic bikes in my shop through the years.  I have to admit that my memories of these machines are always better than the reality.  Old bikes are great to look at but give me reliable, smooth, quiet, trouble free and great performance any day.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:14 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: spark plug    

WAY BACK in the very early 70s I picked up a BSA Victor 441.  Thought I'd be kind to it and bought a new spark plug for it.  A Champion. Put it in at the dealer, rode home. It never sparked again.  Caused me to get to know the ignition system very well on that old bike.  Couldn't believe it was a new plug until I finally installed the old plug and fired right up.  Never changed that original plug, and never used a Champion plug again.   Still kinda miss that old thumper.   Ron