we made it, the klr650 is.......

[Bogdan Swider]

Thanks for the chart, Jeff. Yeah as cheap as I am, I should get a better meter. I had a decent Craftsman - left it with my son in St. Louis. Thanks for the offer, Martin. If I need someone/something taken care of, I'll know who to call. BTW the problem with my vest was a broken wire near the  battery. After 15 years some things go wrong. Bogdan From: Jeff Saline Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:39 PM To: Bogdan Swider Cc: Bogdan Swider , "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Battery Voltage #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 .ygrps-yiv-1863273137ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1863273137 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1863273137ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:23:57 +0000 Bogdan Swider bSwider@...> writes:   Recently I was trying to find out why my electric vest was not doing its' job - cold torso, cold heart .or is it ? Anyway .I got no reading from the connector running from the battery. To make sure my Harbor Freight meter ( I only use the best ) was working, I threw the meter at my van, a 2001 Toyota Sienna ( I only drive the best ). Over the years when taking readings from my motorcycle battery, I consistently get 12.8 or higher even if my ride sits for a while. The reading from my van was 12.25. Seems low to me but an auto wrench told me that's fine. My van starts right up. Anyone know what's the story. Do cage charging systems keep their batteries at a lower voltage ? Bogdan, curious in Colorado <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><>   Bogdan the Curious,   I'll suggest your meter is suspect along with the info from your auto wrench.   This is some info that is for lead-acid batteries I got from someone maybe 8 years ago.   You do need a digital voltmeter, the readings are at 70 degrees F and are for lead-acid batteries. You want to wait about 15 minutes or more after charging the battery or running the bike to allow the "surface charge" to disappate. I put this table on a little card and keep it with the VOM.   Percent         Voltage of charge:       Reading:   100%               12.63 90%                12.54 80%                12.45 70%                12.36 60%                12.27 50%                12.18 40%                12.09 30%                12.00 20%                11.91   0%                11.82   So from using this chart it suggests the battery is about 50% discharged at 12.25 volts.   There could be multiple reasons for the vest not getting hot like wiring that is too small for the load, blown fuse or poor connections.   But no matter what I wouldn't use a Harbor Freight multimeter unless that was the absolutely only option.  I've used them before and couldn't get two to read the same on the same connection at the same time.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]Old School Yearbook Pics[/b] View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! classmates.com

[Martin Earl]

I was one of those who was in the 'initial' Wattman's buy/build of 10 Thermobob.I was personally convinced of Wattman's science and signed on immediately; especially since I live in the same environment as Jeff. I was especially interested in his 'science' of steady cylinder temps and stable water temps.It seemed to me, this would all translate to longer vehicle life; the main reason for the purchase. I bought one immediately and installed it on my 2001 KLR650.Seems to me (I can check the records) that bike was around 12K miles; now at 38K miles. It also stood to reason, if you trade bikes often, the long term effect of a (then) $125 farkle was minimal. I am a keeper of things, not a trader of things, so I drank the Kool-Aid, bought/installed the thermobob and enjoyed knowing wattman's science was defendable. At one point, I had 4 active duty thermobobs; installed on 3 KLR 650's and a KLR250. I asked wattman if I had bought more thermobob's than any other...We laughed at that; I was not the single largest purchaser of thermobob (Wyman Winn was that; he installs them professionally) but I was the largest single end-user of his invention. What makes this little device so great--The water temp comes up to ~195F in the first few minutes and stays there.Wattman wanted that temp at 195F to get the oil warm and lubrication parts as soon as possible; especially in the head. The ancillary benefit of the warm(er) oil, was the lubrication should also benefit the piston's lubrication while keeping the cylinder temps more even top to bottom (as I understood it) and thus, keep the cylinder sleeve 'round' longer into the engine life. NOTE: My 98KLR650 bike had only benefited from the thermobob for 36K miles; I installed it at aprox 20k.At 56500 miles (685 upgrade), my cylinder sleeve was indeed oblong; during the last 1000 miles of my 4500 mile Fall 2013 trip, the bike was consuming 8-10 oz of oil every 200 miles. I am just back from a 21 day/4140 mile trip on my 98 KLR685.March 29. It was 42F when I left; it never got above 46F from Sturgis to Lincoln, NE.The water temp hit 195 in just a few minutes and stayed there for the entire day-trip. Each day, the water temp would quickly climb to ~195F and stay there, except during one day of the trip. Now for an interesting data point...April 13th. I found my self riding headed N for the first 125 miles in light rain, then 100+ miles in heavy rain. heavy. miserable. rain. 25 miles from Des Moines, IA, I stopped for gas, it was 44F (heavy. miserable. rain). I had noticed during the heavy. miserable. rain, the water temp was NOT at 195F, resulting from, (it appears to me) the additional cooling of the rain in direct contact with the radiator/engine block, lowered the overall temp as the bike indicated ~180F; using Wattman's temp overlay on my temp gauge. At least that is what I remember...as I almost did not get back on the bike for the final 25 miles of heavy. miserable. rain. If Bill Ney he Science Guy is reading this, feel free to comment; Norm, you can play Bill Ney if you want. grin. revmaaatin. who discovered Gortex lined boots work both ways... water that runs down you leg into the boot, can't escape and who wonders,Are there really any waterproof gloves for conditions of heavy. miserable. rain. HD offers an answer for $75. Don't taze me bro, but I remain skeptical those gloves are any better than mine. cough.

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Jeff Saline wrote: [u][/u] On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:55:19 +0000 Bogdan Swider bSwider@...> writes: Boy I don't know about this Thermo Bob stuff. What criteria is the need for this gizmo based on ? Is it that the needle, so far to the left, doesn't seem right ? I guess it would look better closer to the middle ? Cruiser guys like themselves and their rides to look good in a certain way. Is this the klr version ? Bogdan <><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Bogdan the Curious, The T-Bob was designed/invented for the KLR in the summer/fall/winter of 2005 just getting into 2006. Wattman was an active member of this group at the time. I've got over 200 e-mails saved from the discussions both on and off list about the T-Bob. He also designed the temperature overlay for the KLR temp gauge and made them available to members of this list for $5. I've got one of the first ones he sent out installed in my instrument cluster. For guys that don't know anything about Wattman he is an engineer by training and profession and also one heck of a high level gear head. He is also a very nice guy that values constructive input to discussions. He mentored me when over the school holiday break 2005/6 I made a head mounted stat housing with by-pass for my KLR. We had a few discussions about orifice sizes and flow rates. And some of the testing I did in South Dakota helped to validate the data he had already collected. Of course my data was collected looking at a watch and temp gauge and later using an infrared temperature sensor. He collects data using a computer and fancy instrumentation. He's now got well over 100,000 miles on his KLR and I think the only stuff he has changed/added are an EagleMike doohickey and torsion spring (he did much of the testing of the torsion spring too) and a T-Bob. I think he might also run a 16 tooth front sprocket. He rides it like he owns it. : ) The stock KLR cooling system has two issues. First the stat temp is too low so the engine never gets to what many consider an appropriate operating temperature except in warm/hot temperatures. The second issue is the radiator is too small to shed all the heat the engine makes in warm/hot temperatures. The Gen II KLRs have a slightly larger radiator which I'm told helps in this area a bit. The T-Bob addresses the first issue of too cold and lots of hot/cold cycling of coolant around the cylinder. The stock system has almost no coolant flow when the stat is closed and when it opens cool/cold coolant from the radiator is sent to the cylinder. As soon as it gets to the stat the stat closes and the engine coolant movement slows until the stat opens again. Then the cool/cold coolant floods the cylinder until it gets to the stat and the stat closes again. If I recall correctly the cycling is something around 80 degrees F and happens every 20 seconds or so. With the T-Bob there is always a bit of coolant flowing around the cylinder but by-passing the radiator when the stat is closed. When the stat opens coolant from the radiator is added to the mix. Even when the coolant lowers the temp enough for the stat to close, coolant still is flowing around the stat and cylinder. I think the delta for the T-Bob is about 12-15 degrees F. That is a much better condition for engine operation. Now some folks are gonna say that the higher temp stat will cause the engine to get too hot in warm/hot conditions. Might help to know that Wattman lives in Phoenix, AZ and rides in triple digit temps with his T-Bob'd KLR. With the stock cooling system or the T-Bob'd system, once the stat is open it is no longer controlling how hot the coolant will get. That is now the job of the radiator, to shed excess heat. And if the stock radiator can't shed the heat the temperature of the coolant will continue to rise. Doesn't matter, stock or T-Bob'd, or no stat at all, the radiator is the limiting factor in warm/hot conditions. The fix for that is to look at Wattman's website (google it) at his article about some tests he did to increase/improve air flow over/through the radiator and then take action as you feel is appropriate for you and your bike. Another option is to add a second radiator which is what I did in Feb of 2008. Hope this is helpful at shedding some light on the T-Bob. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . ____________________________________________________________ [b]The #1 Worst Carb Ever?[/b] Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat This!) FixYourBloodSugar.com