another reason to ride a motorcycle.

[Fred Hink]

12psi in your tires in my neck of the woods could net you many flats. (good for my business) We have lots of sand with hidden rocks. Running low air pressure may help you in the sand but those hidden rocks will surely pinch flat you at every opportunity. YMMV Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: revmaaatin Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:37 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire Lower tire pressure will also do wonders. = 18psi (some say less). I am riding with DR650 guys at 12psi and no rim locks. shrug. ymmv. revmaaatin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[RobertWichert]

We need Mickey Mousse. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/29/2012 6:51 AM, Fred Hink wrote: > > 12psi in your tires in my neck of the woods could net you many flats. > (good for my business) > We have lots of sand with hidden rocks. Running low air pressure may > help you in the sand but those hidden rocks will surely pinch flat you > at every opportunity. > > YMMV > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > From: revmaaatin > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:37 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire > > Lower tire pressure will also do wonders. > = 18psi (some say less). > I am riding with DR650 guys at 12psi and no rim locks. shrug. > ymmv. > > revmaaatin. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Skypilot]

That is a lot to carry on a long trip. I use the mt21s on rallys and they work great in some pretty nasty off road, see roamingrally 2011 and 2012 pics if you have questions of where these tires go. The ing is they are pretty good on the road too. I would skip the spare wheels. Plan your tire changes carefully and bring the tires and tubes along for the ride. Get to where you are going on the d270s or what ever you ride for DS tires then change the tires and go off road. A fresh set of MT21s will claw their way through just about anythign and still get you 2-3k mile for the trip home with tread to spare.. You need to have a tire change kit anyways if you travel so the tubes and tires will be the only other thing to carry

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Koren" wrote: > > I was thinking about taking with me a front tire and rim for when I went off road I have plenty of room on my 09 klr to take one on a long ride > > I noticed when I get into a rut on my klr with the stock tire the bike tracks with the rut I thought if I had a 100 percent off road tire and I wanted to spend the day off road I could just change them out > > dose anyone here ever use a 100 percent off road tire on there klr and is it any better >

[revmaaatin]

Hi Fred, 12 psi is making me pucker up a bit as well. It would seem mass x acceleration has a lot to do with the frequency of flats. Slightly slower speeds seem to alieveate at lot of the flats; not completly, but prudence not to hit a rock shelf or jagged edge any faster than 3-5mph. By the way, the 14/46 cogs are tremendously helpful for aging hands as well. = less clutch slipping required. I must note, most of the time the speed is < 8mph/gps or less with brief periods at 20-25mph. The lowest pressure I am riding at is 17psi and loving it. Not a lot of sand, but the fire trails vary alot between clay to broken limestone/bassalt/granite/quarry trash-rocks to include baby head and softball boulders/marbles. Previoulsy, I have been riding at full 32/36 psi setting and it was doable, but not fun. Letting the tire pressure down has made a HUGE difference. The two dual sport geezers I am riding with are 68 and 71; I thought I was 'good/adequate' but these guys ride circles around me on the KLR with their DR650 and DRZ400 bikes. Finally convinced, and letting the tire pressure down makes the KLR a whole new bike. It is still a heavy pig, but a whole new game! I slightly mis-stated a tire pressure earlier. I asked them about their specific tire pressure: 16psi. The 12 psi guy is someone I have not met yet but is reported to ride fearlessly at that psi. These men also come from a bike-history of riding/racing enduro's most of their life. A little bit of life-experience makes a big difference. Riding/following them has pushed it up a notch for me and has opened up trails that I previously ignored. ymmv. smile. and you MUST know someone who will sell you tubes. Fred--a question for you. Is it 'best' to use the UHD tubes front and rear, or just front or rear IRT to pinch flat avoidance? What do you consider the most important? front/rear for HD tubes? If you only had a choice of only one...is it best to be on the front or rear. (I have spare UHD fronts, but have consumed the UHD rear tubes.) I have never had a pinch flat; never had a front flat, but have shredded the rear tubes on nails ~70K Klr miles. Though, I suspect if I keep chasing thes dual sport geezers, I will be introduced to some pinch flats soon. revmaaatin. who has spares from Fred in his box of tricks.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > > 12psi in your tires in my neck of the woods could net you many flats. (good for my business) > We have lots of sand with hidden rocks. Running low air pressure may help you in the sand but those hidden rocks will surely pinch flat you at every opportunity. > > YMMV > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > > > From: revmaaatin > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:37 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire > > > Lower tire pressure will also do wonders. > = 18psi (some say less). > I am riding with DR650 guys at 12psi and no rim locks. shrug. > ymmv. > > revmaaatin. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[RobertWichert]

I find that I can ride at 20 psi on road and off without front end wobble. Below 20 I get wobble. So I ride at the low end of the street range, like about 22-24 all the time. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/29/2012 11:50 AM, revmaaatin wrote: > > Hi Fred, > 12 psi is making me pucker up a bit as well. > It would seem mass x acceleration has a lot to do with the frequency > of flats. Slightly slower speeds seem to alieveate at lot of the > flats; not completly, but prudence not to hit a rock shelf or jagged > edge any faster than 3-5mph. By the way, the 14/46 cogs are > tremendously helpful for aging hands as well. = less clutch slipping > required. I must note, most of the time the speed is < 8mph/gps or > less with brief periods at 20-25mph. > > The lowest pressure I am riding at is 17psi and loving it. > Not a lot of sand, but the fire trails vary alot between clay to > broken limestone/bassalt/granite/quarry trash-rocks to include baby > head and softball boulders/marbles. > > Previoulsy, I have been riding at full 32/36 psi setting and it was > doable, but not fun. Letting the tire pressure down has made a HUGE > difference. > > The two dual sport geezers I am riding with are 68 and 71; I thought I > was 'good/adequate' but these guys ride circles around me on the KLR > with their DR650 and DRZ400 bikes. Finally convinced, and letting the > tire pressure down makes the KLR a whole new bike. It is still a heavy > pig, but a whole new game! > > I slightly mis-stated a tire pressure earlier. I asked them about > their specific tire pressure: 16psi. The 12 psi guy is someone I have > not met yet but is reported to ride fearlessly at that psi. These men > also come from a bike-history of riding/racing enduro's most of their > life. A little bit of life-experience makes a big difference. > Riding/following them has pushed it up a notch for me and has opened > up trails that I previously ignored. > > ymmv. smile. and you MUST know someone who will sell you tubes. > > Fred--a question for you. > Is it 'best' to use the UHD tubes front and rear, > or just front or rear IRT to pinch flat avoidance? > What do you consider the most important? front/rear for HD tubes? > > If you only had a choice of only one...is it best to be on the front > or rear. (I have spare UHD fronts, but have consumed the UHD rear tubes.) > > I have never had a pinch flat; never had a front flat, but have > shredded the rear tubes on nails ~70K Klr miles. Though, I suspect if > I keep chasing thes dual sport geezers, I will be introduced to some > pinch flats soon. > > revmaaatin. who has spares from Fred in his box of tricks. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > , "Fred Hink" wrote: > > > > 12psi in your tires in my neck of the woods could net you many > flats. (good for my business) > > We have lots of sand with hidden rocks. Running low air pressure may > help you in the sand but those hidden rocks will surely pinch flat you > at every opportunity. > > > > YMMV > > > > Fred > > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > > > > > > > From: revmaaatin > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:37 PM > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire > > > > > > Lower tire pressure will also do wonders. > > = 18psi (some say less). > > I am riding with DR650 guys at 12psi and no rim locks. shrug. > > ymmv. > > > > revmaaatin. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mark ward]

If you are going to change them, consider planning ahead, and have them shipped to where you are heading. I figure If I expect to change my tires when (Example) I get to Moab or even Alaska, I would just call fred, and give him the info of a motel, and have them sent there. (calling the motel also so they expect them.)

--- On Mon, 10/29/12, Skypilot wrote: From: Skypilot Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 6:46 PM That is a lot to carry on a long trip. I use the mt21s on rallys and they work great in some pretty nasty off road, see roamingrally 2011 and 2012 pics if you have questions of where these tires go. The ing is they are pretty good on the road too. I would skip the spare wheels. Plan your tire changes carefully and bring the tires and tubes along for the ride. Get to where you are going on the d270s or what ever you ride for DS tires then change the tires and go off road. A fresh set of MT21s will claw their way through just about anythign and still get you 2-3k mile for the trip home with tread to spare.. You need to have a tire change kit anyways if you travel so the tubes and tires will be the only other thing to carry --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Koren" wrote: > > I was thinking about taking with me a front tire and rim for when I went off road I have plenty of room on my 09 klr to take one on a long ride > > I noticed when I get into a rut on my klr with the stock tire the bike tracks with the rut I thought if I had a 100 percent off road tire and I wanted to spend the day off road I could just change them out > > dose anyone here ever use a 100 percent off road tire on there klr and is it any better > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Fred Hink]

I see lots of pinch flats in my shop. I d guess somewhere around 1 or 2 rear flats for 3 or 4 front flats. It s usually from those guys on MX type bikes that are used to a groomed race track. They don t last long off road here. I guess I don t understand your question about only having one UHD tube. If you think you need protection from pinch flats, it is best to use both front and rear HD tubes. I think front tubes are more prone to pinch flats over the rear tube because the height of the front tire is less than the rear and hitting both tires on the same sharp edged rock could cause the front to pinch flat and not pinch flat the rear. So it is also possible that both tires don t hit the same rock and therefore either tube can be flatted. There are no 17 UHD tubes that I am aware of. The Bridgestone UHD 21 tube is the thickest tube I know of and one of the most expensive too. Bridgestone doesn t make a 17 UHD tube, so maybe you are using a 18 UHD tube. I am a believer in using the correct size to fit your wheel. Any time you have to stretch a tube to fit a tire or rim you are weakening the tube and this could cause a problem at some point. I like natural rubber tubes and the ones sold by Moose are made by Metzeler and seem like a good quality HD tube. The ones from Moose are made in both 21 and 17 . For the difference in price between the Bridgestone and Moose, I ll take the Moose any day. I have yet to see a Moose tube collect the BBs inside the tube like a Bridgestone UHD tube does. I like the Bib Mousse tubes or at least I like the idea of them. I have only had the privilege of changing out one Bib Mousse tube. The disadvantage of the Bib Mousse is that they act like you only have 12psi in the tubes and they will get softer with age which is very short lived. Changing out a Bib Mousse is one of life s great pleasures. (groan) And they don t come cheaply either. I m not sold on the foam insert tubes that also have a small inner tube that you have to pump up. Anytime you have something holding air, it will develop a leak and you are no better than a regular tube. There have been a number of times I have seen those tubeless converted wheels develop leaks too. All those that I know of using a converted tubeless wheel have gone back to tubes because they eventually developed leaks. So I guess to answer your question, I d look at it this way...... how much protection or adventure do you really want? I used to always ride with HD tubes around where I live because I didn t want the adventure of getting home with a flat. In my later years, maybe because I have slowed down slightly, pinch flats don t seem to be much of an issue and therefore I don t use HD tubes any longer. I do carry tools, pumps, patches and spare standard tubes with me though. (knock on wood) Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: revmaaatin Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 12:50 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire Hi Fred, 12 psi is making me pucker up a bit as well. It would seem mass x acceleration has a lot to do with the frequency of flats. Slightly slower speeds seem to alieveate at lot of the flats; not completly, but prudence not to hit a rock shelf or jagged edge any faster than 3-5mph. By the way, the 14/46 cogs are tremendously helpful for aging hands as well. = less clutch slipping required. I must note, most of the time the speed is < 8mph/gps or less with brief periods at 20-25mph. The lowest pressure I am riding at is 17psi and loving it. Not a lot of sand, but the fire trails vary alot between clay to broken limestone/bassalt/granite/quarry trash-rocks to include baby head and softball boulders/marbles. Previoulsy, I have been riding at full 32/36 psi setting and it was doable, but not fun. Letting the tire pressure down has made a HUGE difference. The two dual sport geezers I am riding with are 68 and 71; I thought I was 'good/adequate' but these guys ride circles around me on the KLR with their DR650 and DRZ400 bikes. Finally convinced, and letting the tire pressure down makes the KLR a whole new bike. It is still a heavy pig, but a whole new game! I slightly mis-stated a tire pressure earlier. I asked them about their specific tire pressure: 16psi. The 12 psi guy is someone I have not met yet but is reported to ride fearlessly at that psi. These men also come from a bike-history of riding/racing enduro's most of their life. A little bit of life-experience makes a big difference. Riding/following them has pushed it up a notch for me and has opened up trails that I previously ignored. ymmv. smile. and you MUST know someone who will sell you tubes. Fred--a question for you. Is it 'best' to use the UHD tubes front and rear, or just front or rear IRT to pinch flat avoidance? What do you consider the most important? front/rear for HD tubes? If you only had a choice of only one...is it best to be on the front or rear. (I have spare UHD fronts, but have consumed the UHD rear tubes.) I have never had a pinch flat; never had a front flat, but have shredded the rear tubes on nails ~70K Klr miles. Though, I suspect if I keep chasing thes dual sport geezers, I will be introduced to some pinch flats soon. revmaaatin. who has spares from Fred in his box of tricks.

--- In mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > > 12psi in your tires in my neck of the woods could net you many flats. (good for my business) > We have lots of sand with hidden rocks. Running low air pressure may help you in the sand but those hidden rocks will surely pinch flat you at every opportunity. > > YMMV > > Fred > www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > > > From: revmaaatin > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:37 PM > To: mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire > > > Lower tire pressure will also do wonders. > = 18psi (some say less). > I am riding with DR650 guys at 12psi and no rim locks. shrug. > ymmv. > > revmaaatin. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kevin Powers]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Fred Hink wrote:

> ** > > > snip... I am a believer in using the correct size to fit your wheel. Any > time you have to stretch a tube to fit a tire or rim you are weakening the > tube and this could cause a problem at some point. >

Sure would be nice if there was a uniform measuring convention. I stopped at my local bike shop last night to pick up a tube for wheel/tire that is 140/80-18. I was told that the tube I needed was a 120/80-18; that 120 is the "new" 140. What the heck? I understood the 140 to be the width of the rim in mm - what does the 120 refer to? -- Kevin Powers Woodbury, MN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[RobertWichert]

Well, 20 mm is just under an inch, so it's going to be about an inch smaller in width. Big deal? Actually, come to think of it, that's pretty wide for a bike tire. What are you riding with that big hog on there? Must be a car. Car tubes don't matter. You have air bags. Don't worry, be happy. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/30/2012 7:26 AM, Kevin Powers wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Fred Hink > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > snip... I am a believer in using the correct size to fit your wheel. Any > > time you have to stretch a tube to fit a tire or rim you are > weakening the > > tube and this could cause a problem at some point. > > > > Sure would be nice if there was a uniform measuring convention. I stopped > at my local bike shop last night to pick up a tube for wheel/tire that is > 140/80-18. I was told that the tube I needed was a 120/80-18; that 120 is > the "new" 140. What the heck? I understood the 140 to be the width of the > rim in mm - what does the 120 refer to? > -- > Kevin Powers > Woodbury, MN > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Fred Hink]

Same thing, both metric. I ll bet you sales person meant that a 120/100 would work for your 140/80. These would be similar sizes. Both are metric and the first number is obviously the width of the tread in millimeters where the second number is an aspect ratio meaning that the height of the tire is a percent of the width. A 110/100 size is closer to your 140/80. Tubes will usually be marked in many sizes and as long as they are close, there shouldn t be any problems. You may have a tube that shows inch sizes such as 4.60 or 5.10 and also metric like 100/100 or 130/80. Some tubes are also marked in alpha numeric such as MT or MU. Most all tire companies will have a section on their web sites to understand tire/tube sizing. Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: Kevin Powers Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:26 AM To: Fred Hink Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; revmaaatin Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: front tire

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Fred Hink wrote: snip... I am a believer in using the correct size to fit your wheel. Any time you have to stretch a tube to fit a tire or rim you are weakening the tube and this could cause a problem at some point. Sure would be nice if there was a uniform measuring convention. I stopped at my local bike shop last night to pick up a tube for wheel/tire that is 140/80-18. I was told that the tube I needed was a 120/80-18; that 120 is the "new" 140. What the heck? I understood the 140 to be the width of the rim in mm - what does the 120 refer to? -- Kevin Powers Woodbury, MN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]