nklr : talks

[Fred Hink]

Bob,   We have to endure NKLR subjects more this time of year because of the weather and because we are all not out riding our machines.  Once spring is here, you will see more talk about KLRs and less NKLR subjects.  There are three simple rules for posting to this list and until these list rules are broken, the only thing we can do is keep that Delete key warmed up or make suggestions on this list that you have had enough NKLR subjects.  It is good that you bring up your opinions as long as you abide by our rules.  Profanity is not recommended.  Bring up a KLR subject if you want more KLR discussions.   NKLR subjects have to be tolerated as it would be a pretty dry place here if all we had to talk about was strictly KLR stuff.  Some of us have been around this list and KLRs for a very long time.  There is only so much talk about what oil should I use and what is the best tire that one can stand.  [b]Politics and religion usually never have a productive place on a motorcycle forum.[/b]  If anyone needs to know how to filter your messages, please let me know.   Fred List Admin.   [b]From:[/b] cbrxx98@... [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:52 AM [b]To:[/b] dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Jesus! Are you trying to run people off here? Who moderates this Forum? Drop the Obama bullshit or I am leaving!   Bob 09 klr     To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: charlesf@... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 00:58:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one.   I am on plenty of lists that get political, and I am really getting burned out on politics...  I am not an Obomination fan, nor was I a Bush The Second fan, nor was I a Klinton fan, and I didn't care much for Bush The First, either.  I did like Reagan, but Carter and Ford didn't do much for me, either.  This is not a R vs D thing.   We could use some independents. .......   And, I'll admit, I have no "facts", just my own personal observation.  But, the observation. ........   I have an autistic son.  He's almost 12 years old now.  A few years back, some of his other medical issues caused us to take a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic;  a very well respected medical institution, in Cleveland Ohio, of course.   During these trips, we had stayed at the Ronald McDonald house, as they are all about helping children in these situations.   My observations at the RM house and at the clinic:  There were at least as many, if not more, foreign families/patients there for medical diagnosis/treatment than there were Americans.  I met people from various countries, from South America to Saudi Arabia, etc.   These people did not go to Canada for treatment; they also did not go to England, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain, Sweden,; or any other of the many countries with socialized (or non-socialized) medicine.  They came to the USA.  I have a hard time believing they came to the USA for WORSE medical care than they could receive elsewhere.  As Monty Python was fond of saying, "That's just silly".   From what I have read/heard in recent years, the two best countries for medical research and treatment are the USA and Israel.  YMMV.  But, I haven't yet seen a "government program" that didn't waste money, and when you consider that Social Security is basically bankrupt, and the US Post Office can't turn a profit, I don't have a lot of faith that they can make the medical system work, either.  We are only so many trillion in debt that it is mathematically impossible to pay; how can we possibly trust this to work?   And, finally, if you actually read the US Constitution, exactly WHERE in that document does it give the government the legal authority to force me or you to pay for anything?  Or, better yet, where does it give the government the authority take control of an entire industry?  If you can please point out the section and clause, from the actual text of the US Constitution, I'd love to read it.....  Not that that document means much to those in Washington these days.    Anyway, I'll go back to dreaming of warmer days, and my ebony 2009 KLR. Chuck F. NE PA    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] klrsisfiddy@... [b]To:[/b] marat713@... ; judjonzz@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:18 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. . Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. TK [b]From:[/b] Marat Valegh [b]To:[/b] Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .  

Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2729 - Release Date: 03/07/10 14:34:00

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Sanity, I love it. Too many people want to portray this country as a really bad country in a variety of ways. Things need fixing but i am not convinced the government will do it. All the government will do is create a lot of bureacrats (expensive) to look over us and the doctors and make all our lives hell. Thank you for your letter. Criswell

On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:58 PM, Charles wrote:   Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one.   I am on plenty of lists that get political, and I am really getting burned out on politics...  I am not an Obomination fan, nor was I a Bush The Second fan, nor was I a Klinton fan, and I didn't care much for Bush The First, either.  I did like Reagan, but Carter and Ford didn't do much for me, either.  This is not a R vs D thing.   We could use some independents. .......   And, I'll admit, I have no "facts", just my own personal observation.  But, the observation. ........   I have an autistic son.  He's almost 12 years old now.  A few years back, some of his other medical issues caused us to take a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic;  a very well respected medical institution, in Cleveland Ohio, of course.   During these trips, we had stayed at the Ronald McDonald house, as they are all about helping children in these situations.   My observations at the RM house and at the clinic:  There were at least as many, if not more, foreign families/patients there for medical diagnosis/treatment than there were Americans.  I met people from various countries, from South America to Saudi Arabia, etc.   These people did not go to Canada for treatment; they also did not go to England, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain, Sweden,; or any other of the many countries with socialized (or non-socialized) medicine.  They came to the USA.  I have a hard time believing they came to the USA for WORSE medical care than they could receive elsewhere.  As Monty Python was fond of saying, "That's just silly".   From what I have read/heard in recent years, the two best countries for medical research and treatment are the USA and Israel.  YMMV.  But, I haven't yet seen a "government program" that didn't waste money, and when you consider that Social Security is basically bankrupt, and the US Post Office can't turn a profit, I don't have a lot of faith that they can make the medical system work, either.  We are only so many trillion in debt that it is mathematically impossible to pay; how can we possibly trust this to work?   And, finally, if you actually read the US Constitution, exactly WHERE in that document does it give the government the legal authority to force me or you to pay for anything?  Or, better yet, where does it give the government the authority take control of an entire industry?  If you can please point out the section and clause, from the actual text of the US Constitution, I'd love to read it.....  Not that that document means much to those in Washington these days.    Anyway, I'll go back to dreaming of warmer days, and my ebony 2009 KLR. Chuck F. NE PA     ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] klrsisfiddy@... [b]To:[/b] marat713@... ; judjonzz@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:18 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. . Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. TK [b]From:[/b] Marat Valegh [b]To:[/b] Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2729 - Release Date: 03/07/10 14:34:00

No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2729 - Release Date: 03/07/10 14:34:00

[Fred Hink]

Ron,   Since you are one of those that have been around this list a long time, what would you suggest to Bob K and others as a good balance for the issue of KLR vs NKLR that we see each year at this time?   Fred   [b]From:[/b] roncriswell@... [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:13 AM [b]To:[/b] charlesf@... [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Sanity, I love it. Too many people want to portray this country as a really bad country in a variety of ways. Things need fixing but i am not convinced the government will do it. All the government will do is create a lot of bureacrats (expensive) to look over us and the doctors and make all our lives hell. Thank you for your letter. Criswell

On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:58 PM, Charles wrote:  

Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one.  

[mark ward]

[mark ward]

[k650]

Attachments : [img]cid:image001.jpg@01CABF76.9C76ADB0[/img]

 

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]mark ward [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:38 AM  

Hey any one else have the ability PICK A TOPIC THAT DON'T PICK FIGHTS??

 

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, mark ward wrote:

> > > > Hey what's that over there??? > is that a motorcycle???...wow! > > WELL, works to DISTRACT MY 2 year old Grand Daughter, thought I would try.

Nope, didn't work. But Mr Barker, what is behind DOOR #1? That would be the door with the 2 ft snow drift in front of the storage shed. When I last looked, there was a flock of bikes on the other side of that door. A little more rain, a little more sunshine, and we will see a little more motorcycle. revmaaatin.

[Dennis James]

  I must call BS on this post.  If, as stated, you have lived outside of the country for half of your life and have not been blessed with good health, why would you live in a country with the worst health care system in the world.   I suspect that you are just a brainwashed liberal Obama supporter who probably has never left the country.   To: judjonzz@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: marat713@... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:02:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .  

Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

#ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxhd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxad {padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-lc #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxhd {font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-lc .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass a {color:#1e66ae;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactivity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactivity span {font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactivity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactivity span span {color:#ff7900;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxactivity span .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxunderline {text-decoration:underline;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach div a {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach label a {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass blockquote {} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxbold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxbold a {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxlast p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxlast p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxlast p span.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxyshortcuts {margin-right:0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxattach-table {width:400px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxfile-title a, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxfile-title a:active, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxfile-title a:hover, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxfile-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphoto-title a, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphoto-title a:active, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphoto-title a:hover, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphoto-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass ecxdiv#ygrps-yiv-1518757747ygrp-mlmsg #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-msg p a span.ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxyshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxgreen {color:#628c2a;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxMsoNormal {} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass ecxo {font-size:0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphotos div {float:left;width:72px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphotos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxphotos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxreco-category {font-size:77%;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxreco-desc {font-size:77%;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxreplbq {} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg select, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass input, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg pre, #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg ecx* {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-msg ecxp#ygrps-yiv-1518757747attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-reco #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 8px;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-text p {} #ygrps-yiv-1518757747 .ygrps-yiv-1518757747ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-1518757747ecxygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;} Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/'>Sign up now.

[CY]

Jesus is not the moderator. I think someone took over after he left.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bob K wrote: > > > Jesus! Are you trying to run people off here? Who moderates this Forum? Drop the Obama bullshit or I am leaving! > > > > Bob 09 klr > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > From: charlesf@... > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 00:58:33 -0500 > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare... > > > > > > > Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one. I am on plenty of lists that get political, and I am really getting burned out on politics... I am not an Obomination fan, nor was I a Bush The Second fan, nor was I a Klinton fan, and I didn't care much for Bush The First, either. I did like Reagan, but Carter and Ford didn't do much for me, either. This is not a R vs D thing. We could use some independents........ > > And, I'll admit, I have no "facts", just my own personal observation. But, the observation......... > > I have an autistic son. He's almost 12 years old now. A few years back, some of his other medical issues caused us to take a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic; a very well respected medical institution, in Cleveland Ohio, of course. > > During these trips, we had stayed at the Ronald McDonald house, as they are all about helping children in these situations. > > My observations at the RM house and at the clinic: There were at least as many, if not more, foreign families/patients there for medical diagnosis/treatment than there were Americans. I met people from various countries, from South America to Saudi Arabia, etc. > > These people did not go to Canada for treatment; they also did not go to England, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain, Sweden,; or any other of the many countries with socialized (or non-socialized) medicine. They came to the USA. I have a hard time believing they came to the USA for WORSE medical care than they could receive elsewhere. As Monty Python was fond of saying, "That's just silly". > > From what I have read/heard in recent years, the two best countries for medical research and treatment are the USA and Israel. YMMV. But, I haven't yet seen a "government program" that didn't waste money, and when you consider that Social Security is basically bankrupt, and the US Post Office can't turn a profit, I don't have a lot of faith that they can make the medical system work, either. We are only so many trillion in debt that it is mathematically impossible to pay; how can we possibly trust this to work? > > And, finally, if you actually read the US Constitution, exactly WHERE in that document does it give the government the legal authority to force me or you to pay for anything? Or, better yet, where does it give the government the authority take control of an entire industry? If you can please point out the section and clause, from the actual text of the US Constitution, I'd love to read it..... Not that that document means much to those in Washington these days. > > Anyway, I'll go back to dreaming of warmer days, and my ebony 2009 KLR. > Chuck F. > NE PA > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Thomas Komjathy > To: Marat Valegh ; Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:18 AM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare... > > > Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. > > TK > > > > > > > > From: Marat Valegh > To: Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare... > > > > > > > Hi there, > > Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have. I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all. > > Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there. > > Marat > > > > > > From: Jud > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. . > > > > Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > > below. > > > > > > > > Jud, > > > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > > statement is therefore nonsense. > > > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > > > Scott > > > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com , > > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > > > Stu, > > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > > the operation. > > > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2729 - Release Date: 03/07/10 14:34:00 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ >

[Marat Valegh]

  I must call BS on this post.  If, as stated, you have lived outside of the country for half of your life and have not been blessed with good health, why would you live in a country with the worst health care system in the world.   I suspect that you are just a brainwashed liberal Obama supporter who probably has never left the country.   To: judjonzz@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: marat713@... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:02:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:0 10px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxhd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxad {padding:0 0;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-lc #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxhd {font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-lc .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass a {color:#1e66ae;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactivity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactivity span {font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactivity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactivity span span {color:#ff7900;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxactivity span .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxunderline {text-decoration:underline;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach div a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach label a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass blockquote {}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxbold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxbold a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxlast p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxlast p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass dd.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxlast p span.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxyshortcuts {margin-right:0;} #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxattach-table {width:400px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxfile-title a, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxfile-title a:active, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxfile-title a:hover, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxfile-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphoto-title a, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphoto-title a:active, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphoto-title a:hover, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass div.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphoto-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass ecxdiv#ygrps-yiv-903611079ygrp-mlmsg #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-msg p a span.ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxyshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxgreen {color:#628c2a;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxMsoNormal {}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass ecxo {font-size:0;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphotos div {float:left;width:72px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphotos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxphotos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxreco-category {font-size:77%;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxreco-desc {font-size:77%;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass .ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxreplbq {}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg select, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass input, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg pre, #ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass code {font:115% monospace;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg ecx* {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-msg ecxp#ygrps-yiv-903611079attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-reco #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 8px;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-text p {}#ygrps-yiv-903611079 .ygrps-yiv-903611079ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-903611079ecxygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;} Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.