question re side cases - luggage

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 7:33 PM -0700 8/20/07, Robert Waters wrote:

>I use Castrol synthetic 5w 50 and add about a cup of Lucas. I have >to special order through local parts store and it is about $7.00 a >quart. Any comments?

$hitcan the Lucas. The Castrol Stntec 5W-50 is a good choice. I use that or Agip Synthetic-PC 5W-50 in the winter. Mark

[Norm Keller]

Given that I'm not competent to specify lubrication for the KLR, I advise that you stay within the recommended viscosity range and meet or exceed the API requirements set by Kawasaki. That's the safe answer. I run Rotella 0W40 much if the time because I have measured oil pressures over a wide range of operating conditions and find that it maintains between six and ten PSI at highway speeds at ambient temperatures up to 90F. While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation to lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin film of lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from "friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge. Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do with the oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to the thin oil film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by the rolling elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more important than it's viscosity. Modern engine oils contain a number of performance enhancing materials as part of the additive package. A heavy viscosity engine oil of SAE 50 with no EP (Extreme Pressure) additives will fail to protect the rolling elements or a bearing or the teeth of a gear set while an SAE Zero which contains adequate EP additives, will perform satisfactorily. It also must be recognized that one of oil's most important duties is to carry heat from the bearing for dissipation from the engine. Even a small amount of friction will overheat a bearing or gear set unless this heat production is removed from the friction area. A lighter oil will tend to flow in greater volume so may out perform a heavier (thicker viscosity) oil in the ability to remove heat. A less viscous oil will create less friction and so less heat which may mean that the less viscous oil may be thinned by heat to a lesser degree such that the less viscous oil may be of similar viscosity once the more viscous oil has been heated by its internal liquid friction. Modern automotive engines are using lower viscosity oils (lower SAE number) than in the past and both efficiency and engine life are increasing. Virtually all of these new engines use a similar camshaft-bearing-as-part-of-the-cylinder-head configuration as does the KLR. If an '08 Honda Civic is happy with a good EP oil of very light viscosity, why would the same not be expected of the KLR? Consider the reports of wear to the camshaft bearing surfaces in the KLR head. Of better, consider the lack of such reports. The total lack. This is the same state as automotive and bike engines in general. On the other hand, if you want to have problems with camshaft bearings, run a very high viscosity oil which will deliver virtually no oil flow under cold conditions! Without significant oil flow in the camshaft bearing journal areas, the only protection for the surfaces is the EP performance of the oil. The oil's EP additives are of crucial importance for the camshaft during starting and warm-up as well as of crucial importance for the rolling element (ball and roller) bearings and gears under all conditions. I'm willing to bed you a box of donuts that you can do an oil analysis of that light oil at the end of the oil change interval (providing that the EP performance is up to par) and find that no unusual wear has occurred. I am also willing to bet a box of donuts that you will not have a similar level of success by trying the same with a straight SAE 50 oil. There is far to much weight (pun intended) placed on the use of a heavier SAE oil and not enough consideration over the oil's additive package. I suppose that this is because people believe that they understand something about the oil's characteristics, based on the theory that thicker oil lubricates better than thin oil. This is not true. Automatic transmission oil has an SAE viscosity of about a 10 weight engine oil. This is far thinner than an SAE 90 gear oil which is about as thick as a 50 weight engine oil. Both oils perform satisfactorily in an automotive differential (rear axle) under warm conditions. In below zero operation, the ATF is far superior. The thinner oil has adequate EP performance and is able to flow into areas where the oil has been wiped away far better than the thicker oil. Please don't accept the myth that thicker oil performs better than thinner oil. There is much more involved in specifying an adequate lubricant than choosing the thickest available. HIH Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> > > > While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be some

fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation to lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin film of lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from "friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge.

> > Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do with

the oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to the thin oil film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by the rolling elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more important than it's viscosity.

> > Modern engine oils contain a number of performance enhancing

materials as part of the additive package. A heavy viscosity engine oil of SAE 50 with no EP (Extreme Pressure) additives will fail to protect the rolling elements or a bearing or the teeth of a gear set while an SAE Zero which contains adequate EP additives, will perform satisfactorily.

> > It also must be recognized that one of oil's most important duties

is to carry heat from the bearing for dissipation from the engine. Even a small amount of friction will overheat a bearing or gear set unless this heat production is removed from the friction area. A lighter oil will tend to flow in greater volume so may out perform a heavier (thicker viscosity) oil in the ability to remove heat.

> > A less viscous oil will create less friction and so less heat which

may mean that the less viscous oil may be thinned by heat to a lesser degree such that the less viscous oil may be of similar viscosity once the more viscous oil has been heated by its internal liquid friction.

> > Modern automotive engines are using lower viscosity oils (lower SAE

number) than in the past and both efficiency and engine life are increasing. Virtually all of these new engines use a similar camshaft-bearing-as-part-of-the-cylinder-head configuration as does the KLR. If an '08 Honda Civic is happy with a good EP oil of very light viscosity, why would the same not be expected of the KLR?

> > Consider the reports of wear to the camshaft bearing surfaces in the

KLR head. Of better, consider the lack of such reports. The total lack. This is the same state as automotive and bike engines in general.

> > On the other hand, if you want to have problems with camshaft

bearings, run a very high viscosity oil which will deliver virtually no oil flow under cold conditions!

> > Without significant oil flow in the camshaft bearing journal areas,

the only protection for the surfaces is the EP performance of the oil.

> > The oil's EP additives are of crucial importance for the camshaft

during starting and warm-up as well as of crucial importance for the rolling element (ball and roller) bearings and gears under all conditions.

> > I'm willing to bed you a box of donuts that you can do an oil

analysis of that light oil at the end of the oil change interval (providing that the EP performance is up to par) and find that no unusual wear has occurred.

> > I am also willing to bet a box of donuts that you will not have a

similar level of success by trying the same with a straight SAE 50 oil.

> > There is far to much weight (pun intended) placed on the use of a

heavier SAE oil and not enough consideration over the oil's additive package. I suppose that this is because people believe that they understand something about the oil's characteristics, based on the theory that thicker oil lubricates better than thin oil.

> > This is not true. > > Automatic transmission oil has an SAE viscosity of about a 10 weight

engine oil. This is far thinner than an SAE 90 gear oil which is about as thick as a 50 weight engine oil.

> > Both oils perform satisfactorily in an automotive differential (rear

axle) under warm conditions. In below zero operation, the ATF is far superior. The thinner oil has adequate EP performance and is able to flow into areas where the oil has been wiped away far better than the thicker oil.

> > Please don't accept the myth that thicker oil performs better than

thinner oil. There is much more involved in specifying an adequate lubricant than choosing the thickest available.

> > HIH > > Norm >

Norm, I snipped this a little. I personally wouldn't compare the KLR650 engine with a modern auto engine. When is the last time a modern auto engine had crank and roller bearings in the bottom end, or shared the engine oil with the clutch and transmission? Some of us are running and sharing oil tests. Some oils have even shown excessive cam lobe wear, while others have shown minimal wear. Oil is indeed somewhat of a personal preference. Roller and ball bearings shear oil down faster than plain bearings, as I remember reading a tech article years ago. They also shed metal into the oil to a greater degree. I don't believe in citing the manual in this particular discussion. YMMV, of course. Many things proven to be beneficial to the KLR650 are not in the manual. I've heard ugly bottom end noises from engines running (lighter) oils that matched the manual's specifications, and were changed in accordance with the service interval specified in the manual. Less than 20K miles on the engine, too. You might run ATF in the rear end of your car, but there is no way I'd ever run it in the rear end of my Mach I, for example. I have respect for your knowledge and experience, but I don't agree with you in this case. Different oils for different uses, of course. I started learning this over 30 years ago in a machine shop. I learned how to make special tools to repair machine equipment that had not been adequately lubricated. Sometimes this was a lot of work, so it was a very good learning experience. I also exchange info on a weekly basis with a guy that builds motorcycle engines for a living, lab tests his oil, etc.... My point is, I'm not just guessing..... Another resource http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#Oil The applications this guys has are all plain bearing AFAIK. No one anywhere (that I saw) said anything about choosing the thickest available oil. Can you cite that instance? I didn't see any reference to straight 50 weight, either. Where did that come from? all the best, Mike

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> > Given that I'm not competent to specify lubrication for the KLR, I

advise that you stay within the recommended viscosity range and meet or exceed the API requirements set by Kawasaki. That's the safe answer.

> > I run Rotella 0W40 much if the time because I have measured oil

pressures over a wide range of operating conditions and find that it maintains between six and ten PSI at highway speeds at ambient temperatures up to 90F.

> > While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be some

fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation to lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin film of lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from "friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge.

> > Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do with

the oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to the thin oil film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by the rolling elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more important than it's viscosity.

>

SNIPPED>>>>>>>>>>>>

> HIH > > Norm > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Norm, I gotta tease you on this what. What the heck is a "friction bearing?" Also, you mentioned the cam bearings. These are plain bearings. These typically require more pressure to maintain the lubricating film between the rotating part and the stationary part. Are you sure 6 to 10 psi is really adequate for this type of bearing? I personally wouldn't be happy with this. Other engines with plain bearings require much higher pressures. all the best, Mike

[maxtork1957]

-I'm running 20W50 Castrol GTX in my 05 KLR. In Miami where the temp coming off the asphalt is 115. Should I change??-- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > > > > Given that I'm not competent to specify lubrication for the KLR,

I

> advise that you stay within the recommended viscosity range and

meet

> or exceed the API requirements set by Kawasaki. That's the safe

answer.

> > > > I run Rotella 0W40 much if the time because I have measured oil > pressures over a wide range of operating conditions and find that

it

> maintains between six and ten PSI at highway speeds at ambient > temperatures up to 90F. > > > > While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be

some

> fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation

to

> lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin

film of

> lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from > "friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge. > > > > Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do

with

> the oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to

the

> thin oil film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by

the

> rolling elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more > important than it's viscosity. > > > SNIPPED>>>>>>>>>>>> > > HIH > > > > Norm > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Norm, > > I gotta tease you on this what. What the heck is a "friction

bearing?"

> > Also, you mentioned the cam bearings. These are plain bearings.

These

> typically require more pressure to maintain the lubricating film > between the rotating part and the stationary part. Are you sure 6

to

> 10 psi is really adequate for this type of bearing? I personally > wouldn't be happy with this. Other engines with plain bearings

require

> much higher pressures. > > all the best, > > Mike >

[kestrelfal]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> > Given that I'm not competent to specify lubrication for the KLR, I

advise that you stay within the recommended viscosity range and meet or exceed the API requirements set by Kawasaki. That's the safe answer.

> > I run Rotella 0W40 much if the time because I have measured oil

pressures over a wide range of operating conditions and find that it maintains between six and ten PSI at highway speeds at ambient temperatures up to 90F.

> > While the KLR requires adequate lubrication, there seems to be some

fundamental misunderstanding of the role of viscosity in relation to lubrication. Ball and roller bearings operate with a very thin film of lubricant between the rolling elements which is very different from "friction" bearings which are dependent on an oil wedge.

> > Viscosity (the relative thickness of the oil) has little to do with

the oil's ability to keep the rolling elements separated. Due to the thin oil film involved, the oil's ability to resist penetration by the rolling elements, the oil's extreme pressure performance is more important than it's viscosity.

> > Modern engine oils contain a number of performance enhancing

materials as part of the additive package. A heavy viscosity engine oil of SAE 50 with no EP (Extreme Pressure) additives will fail to protect the rolling elements or a bearing or the teeth of a gear set while an SAE Zero which contains adequate EP additives, will perform satisfactorily.

> > It also must be recognized that one of oil's most important duties

is to carry heat from the bearing for dissipation from the engine. Even a small amount of friction will overheat a bearing or gear set unless this heat production is removed from the friction area. A lighter oil will tend to flow in greater volume so may out perform a heavier (thicker viscosity) oil in the ability to remove heat.

> > A less viscous oil will create less friction and so less heat which

may mean that the less viscous oil may be thinned by heat to a lesser degree such that the less viscous oil may be of similar viscosity once the more viscous oil has been heated by its internal liquid friction.

> > Modern automotive engines are using lower viscosity oils (lower SAE

number) than in the past and both efficiency and engine life are increasing. Virtually all of these new engines use a similar camshaft-bearing-as-part-of-the-cylinder-head configuration as does the KLR. If an '08 Honda Civic is happy with a good EP oil of very light viscosity, why would the same not be expected of the KLR?

> > Consider the reports of wear to the camshaft bearing surfaces in the

KLR head. Of better, consider the lack of such reports. The total lack. This is the same state as automotive and bike engines in general.

> > On the other hand, if you want to have problems with camshaft

bearings, run a very high viscosity oil which will deliver virtually no oil flow under cold conditions!

> > Without significant oil flow in the camshaft bearing journal areas,

the only protection for the surfaces is the EP performance of the oil.

> > The oil's EP additives are of crucial importance for the camshaft

during starting and warm-up as well as of crucial importance for the rolling element (ball and roller) bearings and gears under all conditions.

> > I'm willing to bed you a box of donuts that you can do an oil

analysis of that light oil at the end of the oil change interval (providing that the EP performance is up to par) and find that no unusual wear has occurred.

> > I am also willing to bet a box of donuts that you will not have a

similar level of success by trying the same with a straight SAE 50 oil.

> > There is far to much weight (pun intended) placed on the use of a

heavier SAE oil and not enough consideration over the oil's additive package. I suppose that this is because people believe that they understand something about the oil's characteristics, based on the theory that thicker oil lubricates better than thin oil.

> > This is not true. > > Automatic transmission oil has an SAE viscosity of about a 10 weight

engine oil. This is far thinner than an SAE 90 gear oil which is about as thick as a 50 weight engine oil.

> > Both oils perform satisfactorily in an automotive differential (rear

axle) under warm conditions. In below zero operation, the ATF is far superior. The thinner oil has adequate EP performance and is able to flow into areas where the oil has been wiped away far better than the thicker oil.

> > Please don't accept the myth that thicker oil performs better than

thinner oil. There is much more involved in specifying an adequate lubricant than choosing the thickest available.

> > HIH > > Norm > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Info. on motorcycle engine oil and other motorcycle technologies can be found in SAE Technical Papers, found by using the search function at SAE International. Abstracts are given, however, papers must be purchased. http://www.sae.org/servlets/index http://www.sae.org/jsp/jsps/advancesearch.jsp FWIW Fred

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > Also, you mentioned the cam bearings. These are plain bearings. These > typically require more pressure to maintain the lubricating film > between the rotating part and the stationary part. Are you sure 6 to > 10 psi is really adequate for this type of bearing? I personally > wouldn't be happy with this. Other engines with plain bearings require > much higher pressures.

Regardless, 6 to 10 psi is the KLR oil pressure spec. Never heard of anybody who measured oil pressure of a KLR who got anything but that under normal operation. Tends to freak people out, but (shrug). If you want super-long life, go buy a Honda Civic. High oil pressure indicates that the oil isn't flowing efficiently, which isn't what you want. I think Patman measured the oil filter bypass pressure once and it wasn't very high either. Of course, too-low oil pressure isn't good either, because it won't push the oil up into the cylinder head, it'll all be running out of lower ports. But 6 to 10 psi isn't too-low, it's KLR spec. As for the notion of running 20W50 (or any other XW50) in the KLR, it is completely not needed and counter productive. Running thick oils in motorcycles is a practice that dates back to early air-cooled Japanese and British bikes which might as well have been called "wish-cooled" because they just didn't understand cooling systems back then. The oil got well above the boiling point of water in those bikes and fell out of spec below the viscosity where the oil pump could maintain reasonable oil pressure. Starting out with a thicker oil helped stave off that process. But we have a water-cooled bike, and if you maintain your cooling system properly, the oil barely exceeds the boiling point of water if I'm recalling Patman's oil temperature measurements correctly. Oils don't fall out of spec under those conditions. I personally prefer running a diesel-type oil because the tables I've seen show that it has EP performance similar to 20W50 oils but is not too thick for the KLR's primitive oil pump to effectively pump, and the additive package is far superior to automotive oils. I'm running Shell Rotella T 5w40 because it's cheap and available at my local Wally World, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any other diesel oil in the KLR.

[Mike]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote:

> > Regardless, 6 to 10 psi is the KLR oil pressure spec. Never heard of

anybody who

> measured oil pressure of a KLR who got anything but that under

normal operation. Tends

> to freak people out, but (shrug). If you want super-long life, go

buy a Honda Civic. High

> oil pressure indicates that the oil isn't flowing efficiently, which

isn't what you want. I

> think Patman measured the oil filter bypass pressure once and it

wasn't very high either.

> Of course, too-low oil pressure isn't good either, because it won't

push the oil up into the

> cylinder head, it'll all be running out of lower ports. But 6 to 10

psi isn't too-low, it's KLR

> spec. > > As for the notion of running 20W50 (or any other XW50) in the KLR,

it is completely not

> needed and counter productive. Running thick oils in motorcycles is

a practice that dates

> back to early air-cooled Japanese and British bikes which might as

well have been called

> "wish-cooled" because they just didn't understand cooling systems

back then. The oil got

> well above the boiling point of water in those bikes and fell out of

spec below the viscosity

> where the oil pump could maintain reasonable oil pressure. Starting

out with a thicker oil

> helped stave off that process. But we have a water-cooled bike, and

if you maintain your

> cooling system properly, the oil barely exceeds the boiling point of

water if I'm recalling

> Patman's oil temperature measurements correctly. Oils don't fall out

of spec under those

> conditions. I personally prefer running a diesel-type oil because

the tables I've seen show

> that it has EP performance similar to 20W50 oils but is not too

thick for the KLR's primitive

> oil pump to effectively pump, and the additive package is far

superior to automotive oils.

> I'm running Shell Rotella T 5w40 because it's cheap and available at

my local Wally World, I

> wouldn't hesitate to recommend any other diesel oil in the KLR. >

Eric, Because it's what happens in the KLR doesn't always mean it's the best - any chance you might agree with that as a general statement? The pressure will be low, due to the design of the system. The r/h exhaust bearing often shows scuffing. This bearing is at the end of the system, and the pressure reading is not taken there........... I agree with you on the use of diesel oils. A few of them I've looked at and used have worked well. General notes: This summer I'm running 20-50 full synthetic syntec. The bike is shifting well. No ugly noises at any time, including startup. When I get to 2K miles It'll be analyzed. The clatter heard on startup would probably be cam on valve shim, as if you hear clatter in the cam bearings you have big problems. The KACR can also make noise. A "premium" motorcycle specific oil recently wore cam lobes in just 2000 miles. This oil shared down 25% in this test. There's been very good results from the 5-50 syntech so far, going by lack of wear on the cam lobes, etc. all the best, Mike

[kestrelfal]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > Regardless, 6 to 10 psi is the KLR oil pressure spec. Never heard of > anybody who > > measured oil pressure of a KLR who got anything but that under > normal operation. Tends > > to freak people out, but (shrug). If you want super-long life, go > buy a Honda Civic. High > > oil pressure indicates that the oil isn't flowing efficiently, which > isn't what you want. I > > think Patman measured the oil filter bypass pressure once and it > wasn't very high either. > > Of course, too-low oil pressure isn't good either, because it won't > push the oil up into the > > cylinder head, it'll all be running out of lower ports. But 6 to 10 > psi isn't too-low, it's KLR > > spec. > > > > As for the notion of running 20W50 (or any other XW50) in the KLR, > it is completely not > > needed and counter productive. Running thick oils in motorcycles is > a practice that dates > > back to early air-cooled Japanese and British bikes which might as > well have been called > > "wish-cooled" because they just didn't understand cooling systems > back then. The oil got > > well above the boiling point of water in those bikes and fell out of > spec below the viscosity > > where the oil pump could maintain reasonable oil pressure. Starting > out with a thicker oil > > helped stave off that process. But we have a water-cooled bike, and > if you maintain your > > cooling system properly, the oil barely exceeds the boiling point of > water if I'm recalling > > Patman's oil temperature measurements correctly. Oils don't fall out > of spec under those > > conditions. I personally prefer running a diesel-type oil because > the tables I've seen show > > that it has EP performance similar to 20W50 oils but is not too > thick for the KLR's primitive > > oil pump to effectively pump, and the additive package is far > superior to automotive oils. > > I'm running Shell Rotella T 5w40 because it's cheap and available at > my local Wally World, I > > wouldn't hesitate to recommend any other diesel oil in the KLR. > > > Eric, > Because it's what happens in the KLR doesn't always mean it's the best > - any chance you might agree with that as a general statement? > > The pressure will be low, due to the design of the system. The r/h > exhaust bearing often shows scuffing. This bearing is at the end of > the system, and the pressure reading is not taken there........... > > I agree with you on the use of diesel oils. A few of them I've looked > at and used have worked well. > > General notes: > This summer I'm running 20-50 full synthetic syntec. The bike is > shifting well. No ugly noises at any time, including startup. When I > get to 2K miles It'll be analyzed. > > The clatter heard on startup would probably be cam on valve shim, as > if you hear clatter in the cam bearings you have big problems. The > KACR can also make noise. > > A "premium" motorcycle specific oil recently wore cam lobes in just > 2000 miles. This oil shared down 25% in this test. There's been very > good results from the 5-50 syntech so far, going by lack of wear on > the cam lobes, etc. > > all the best, > > Mike >

Beware of any claims based on anecdotal or testimonial evidence, it's a close relative of snake oil. BIG SMILEY Fred

[kestrelfal]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > Regardless, 6 to 10 psi is the KLR oil pressure spec. Never heard of > anybody who > > measured oil pressure of a KLR who got anything but that under > normal operation. Tends > > to freak people out, but (shrug). If you want super-long life, go > buy a Honda Civic. High > > oil pressure indicates that the oil isn't flowing efficiently, which > isn't what you want. I > > think Patman measured the oil filter bypass pressure once and it > wasn't very high either. > > Of course, too-low oil pressure isn't good either, because it won't > push the oil up into the > > cylinder head, it'll all be running out of lower ports. But 6 to 10 > psi isn't too-low, it's KLR > > spec. > > > > As for the notion of running 20W50 (or any other XW50) in the KLR, > it is completely not > > needed and counter productive. Running thick oils in motorcycles is > a practice that dates > > back to early air-cooled Japanese and British bikes which might as > well have been called > > "wish-cooled" because they just didn't understand cooling systems > back then. The oil got > > well above the boiling point of water in those bikes and fell out of > spec below the viscosity > > where the oil pump could maintain reasonable oil pressure. Starting > out with a thicker oil > > helped stave off that process. But we have a water-cooled bike, and > if you maintain your > > cooling system properly, the oil barely exceeds the boiling point of > water if I'm recalling > > Patman's oil temperature measurements correctly. Oils don't fall out > of spec under those > > conditions. I personally prefer running a diesel-type oil because > the tables I've seen show > > that it has EP performance similar to 20W50 oils but is not too > thick for the KLR's primitive > > oil pump to effectively pump, and the additive package is far > superior to automotive oils. > > I'm running Shell Rotella T 5w40 because it's cheap and available at > my local Wally World, I > > wouldn't hesitate to recommend any other diesel oil in the KLR. > > > Eric, > Because it's what happens in the KLR doesn't always mean it's the best > - any chance you might agree with that as a general statement? > > The pressure will be low, due to the design of the system. The r/h > exhaust bearing often shows scuffing. This bearing is at the end of > the system, and the pressure reading is not taken there........... > > I agree with you on the use of diesel oils. A few of them I've looked > at and used have worked well. > > General notes: > This summer I'm running 20-50 full synthetic syntec. The bike is > shifting well. No ugly noises at any time, including startup. When I > get to 2K miles It'll be analyzed. > > The clatter heard on startup would probably be cam on valve shim, as > if you hear clatter in the cam bearings you have big problems. The > KACR can also make noise. > > A "premium" motorcycle specific oil recently wore cam lobes in just > 2000 miles. This oil shared down 25% in this test. There's been very > good results from the 5-50 syntech so far, going by lack of wear on > the cam lobes, etc. > > all the best, > > Mike >

Beware of any claims based on anecdotal or testimonial evidence, it's a close relative of snake oil. BIG SMILEY Fred