nklr apple?

[Guest]

>Anything to increase or direct airflow into >the radiator will help -

through shrouds, >air deflectors, removing obstructions, etc. >I think the KLR fix is the improved air >deflector, and moving the mudflap thats in >the airstream in front of the radiator. Great technical discussion! IMO there are two types of cooling system modifications/upgrades: 1) Money is no object for any sort of gain. This kind apply to racing and similar applications. 2) Modest cost, easy to do modifications. The most obvious of this type is to ensure that the cooling system is operating as it was intended. Common issues are radiator tubes chalked up with deposits, engine internals corroded or coated with deposits and malfunctioning thermostat. Do these first. One area which is typically neglected in trying to improve radiator performance is sealing of the fan shroud to the radiator. Since there is more resistance to air flow through the radiator than there is through the space between the fan shroud and the radiator it is easier for air to enter between the shroud and radiator than to flow through the radiator. When the fan is operating it is typical for a large amount of air flow to be air entering between the radiator and shroud which does not contribute to cooling. Use of some sort of rubber material to seal the shroud to radiator can greatly improve radiator performance when the fan is providing air flow. A trip to a local auto wrecker to obtain some door sealing material which can be pressed over the leading edge of the fan shroud will often be the easiest way of solving the sealing problem. A caution: It is desirable to ensure that the sealing medium does not move where it is in contact with the radiator since not much abrasion is required to rub through the radiator tubes. FWIW Norm

[Jeff Saline]

Jeff, I'm the Jeff in Rapid City, South Dakota. Bill and I have been involved in some interesting e-mails over the past 5 months or so about the KLR and temperatures. He makes a pretty handy face for the temp gauge. I installed one of the earlier ones and no longer guess about the temps my bike is operating at. Seems like you must have a background in engineering??? I've read a bit about Bill's background and to say I'm impressed is an understatement. He's been involved in some very interesting projects. The KLR650 temp gauge sender is in the top of the head. The fan is activated by a sender in the bottom of the radiator. One of the many modifications I've made to my 2003 is to install a fan by-pass switch. It's three position, normal operation, off, on. Here's my thought process for installing this switch on my bike. I've been a mechanic for over 30 years and have a pretty well grounded understanding of the system and the principles of engine cooling. Surely not as good as Bill's grasp but I get by pretty well. : ) I usually have the switch in the normal operation position. But, sometimes I'm in very hot weather, tough slow riding or maybe stuck motionless after hard usage. I like having the option of activating the fan and helping a bit with cooling. I don't normally see a change register on the temp gauge but I like the option of trying to help. The off position allows me to keep the fan from operating if I don't want it to. The KLR has a reputation of sometimes allowing the fan to contact the fan motor supports. Then the fan quits moving. The usual cause of this is a hard fall to on the left side of the bike. A guy can stick his fingers up to the fan blade and make sure it's free to move. But I like the option, for me, to turn off the fan until I'm in a position to check the fan movement. I could always just turn the fan on too and hear it run. Or not. But I like the off option on my bike. I agree the stock cooling system probably works just fine for most situations. But Bill's data suggests a hotter stat could be appropriate. And the hobby type fiddling with the system can be interesting. Last Sunday I did about 35 miles in 22-30 degree temps. Speeds were about 50-55 mph. The temp gauge was reading 170 in the 22 ambient temps and 180 when I got to 30 degrees and slowed down just a bit. I would have preferred having the temp around 195. A different stat probably would have allowed that. Last summer I did a bit of riding in an ambient temp of 107. The bike temp was 225 and that's at about 45-50 mph. I put the bike in the shop at an ambient temp of 80 degrees and within about a minute I heard the tank begin venting. I opened the fuel cap to the tank with about 3.5-4 gallons of fuel and the fuel was boiling. Kind of cool since I've heard of fuel boiling before but that was the first time I ever saw it. Even when I was in Kuwait a few years ago and the temp was 130 degrees in the shade I never saw fuel boil. Yup, I think a 190-195 degree stat would probably work just fine in a KLR. : ) As you get more smiles on your KLR I'll be interested in hearing more of your thoughts about this fine machine. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[John Kokola]

Has anyone mentioned jetting changes? A stock-jetted bike that is getting 60 mpg is certainly going to run hotter than one with a jet kit (getting 45-50 mpg). --John Kokola Norm Keller wrote:

>>Anything to increase or direct airflow into >the radiator will help - >> >> >through shrouds, >air deflectors, removing obstructions, etc. >I think the >KLR fix is the improved air >deflector, and moving the mudflap thats in >the >airstream in front of the radiator. > >Great technical discussion! > >IMO there are two types of cooling system modifications/upgrades: >

[Bill Watson]

Paul, you and I agree on this, and I think you've just noticed that in the lasts posts - my bike IS stock. It runs like all the OTHER stock bikes that people are reporting in. You wrote: "Clearly, Kawasaki knows what that limit is, as the engine obviously works for an extended period of time. The bike has a thermostat, (I assume, as I have never seen a liquid cooled motor that didn't), so the motor is seeing a relatively constant temperature, of whatever temp the thermostat is. Are you measuring the coolant temp inside the motor, or at the radiator? If it was changing from say 150 to 250 degrees at the same place INSIDE the motor, then there is a problem, such as bad thermostat or actually an insufficient cooling system." EXACTLY! I AM measuring in the head, and yes, you and I both would like to see it the same temp all year as you note a proper design would have. But YES it does run 170 all winter (cold stat) and YES it does run 200-240 all summer. So we agree. A smarter setup would be a 200 stat and a radiator that allowed it to run 200 all summer. You wrote: "As far as the idea of the electric fan being some sort of "saving the day", (kind of implys that it a afterthought bogus fix to a design defect), every liquid cooled vehicle I have seen in the last 50 years had some sort of fan on it." I understand. I should have approached that a little differently. My point - the time constant on temp changes is VERY short on this bike - it has only 36 oz. of coolant. On top of that, the electric fan is not enough in hot weather. It comes on around 215F but cannot maintain 215F unless the weather is below around 90F at a standstill. If it's 110 outside the coolant will continue to climb. If this bike had a slower time constant the electric wouldn't be so critical, that's why the fan is more important than on other vehicles I've tested, that's all. "Anything to increase or direct airflow into the radiator will help - through shrouds, air deflectors, removing obstructions, etc. I think the KLR fix is the improved air deflector, and moving the mudflap thats in the airstream in front of the radiator." Please read my posts a little slower. That is two of the mods I just did and reported on. "Anything that increases heat transfer helps - plain water transfers heat better than antifreeze. But you also need anti-rust additive and water pump lube." Yes, and that's my third mod, I said I did that. You're sort of arguing with me but didn't read my posts slowly enough to see I'm doing what you think works too. We're on the same page. "By the way, you mention "having the fan in automatic mode"? I didn't know you can shut it off. Would you shut off the electric fan on you car and only turn it on when you think you need it?" Here's why I brought that up; the stock fan comes on at 215 ish. My statement of going to 230 at a long red light would not be true since the fan would come on below that. I was trying to make a point of the incredibly short time constant on this system, but we got caught up in the manual switch. As Jeff Saline has pointed out (he and I have the same setup) I actually turn the fan on BEFORE 215 if I'm really stuck in traffic to increase the amount of time I have before the water will get to 230, or 240 in the summer in Phx. Sorry for the confusion. Bill Watson Phoenix --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Denis Dimick]

For some dumb reason I had PowerBook on the brain. I just bought ten Mini-Mac's for work (1.5Ghz,1Gig RAM, 80Gig HD, Super Drive), and would have to say they are VERY nice. We are starting to replace some of the G5 desktops with Mini-Mac's and the endusers have been very happy. When we first got them, I spent a weekend trying to crash one, they would slow down, but not crash, ended up being very impressed with how well they run multible applications at the same time. The next home computer I buy will be a Mini-Mac. HtH, Denis

On 10/28/05, Mike Peplinski wrote: > > My partner uses Apple and I'm PC. We do strictly office type operations. > No > limitations either way. The newer XP stuff is pretty simple but Apple is > still cleaner. So far the biggest drawback is cost-everything costs about > 50% more for a Mac. > > > >From: Denis Dimick > >To: Don Bittle > >CC: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] nklr Apple? > >Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:31:14 -0600 > > > >Your going to be hard pressed to find an Apple for $800, or at least one > >worth a damn. Look at the Apple Store (on-line) and see what they have. > > > >Being a Linux bigget, I really like my 17" PowerBook, but the next one I > >buy > >will be a 12". To hard to drag a 17" along on the bike. > > > >HtH, > > > >Denis > > > >On 10/27/05, Don Bittle wrote: > > > > > > Since I've had so much help from my "brothers in crime", I thought you > > > might know something about Apples. > > > I've given up on my Dell. Ready to switch. > > > I surf mostly. No games or graphics. Poor download speeds because of > my > > > rural phone line. Need supreme reliability with a very shallow > learning > > > curve. ) > > > > > > I'd like to stay below 7 or $800. Which mac would do me? I am open to > an > > > ebay purchase. > > > thx > > > don > > > a17 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > >www.dualsportnews.com http://www.dualsportnews.com> http://www.dualsportnews.com> > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > >www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: > >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.comhttp://www.dualsportnews.com> > >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.htmlhttp://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> > >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]