1/4 mile times ?

[Conall]

Watergate never happened. There are no conspiracies. You may go back to work now. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Conall wrote: > > > > I wasn't going to respond to this but....having seen the results of > > the Nimitz freeway pancake in East Oakland, CA during Loma Prieta ' > > *9, I know how the hardest of the hardened criminals will join > > together to SAVE peoples lifes, not destroy them. I was not in New > > (followed by a lot of loony conspiracy theory) > > Uhm, let's not jump the shark here. > > There were indeed some bad characters in New Orleans, just like in any > large city. And with the police force out of commission in much of the > city due to lack of communications and lack of transportation, they

did a

> number on a lot of innocent people. Including maybe in the Superdome, I > don't know anything about the Superdome, like I said I haven't

talked to

> anybody who was at the Superdome. I have no doubt that some bad things > happened out there when those thugs finally got to do their 'thang' > without fear of the cops. > > I do know that conditions in the Convention Center weren't all that

bad,

> other than the shortage of food and water and the crowding and the fact > that the sick and elderly were dying from the heat and lack of medicine, > until the National Guard arrived there on Thursday afternoon and LOCKED > THEM IN. That's right. That's not a typo. The National Guard had gotten > word that there was rioting at the Convention Center, and that was

their

> response. (The "rioting" was a bunch of people chanting, "Where's our > buses? Where's our water? Where's our food?"). At that point things got > really bad, because they were basically left there to stand in their

own

> feces and urine until the buses to take them away finally arrived

Friday

> evening. > > As for people who are bound and detirmined to think that all "those" > people are just a bunch of savages, I don't know what to say about

that,

> except to say that the majority of people I've ever met in New Orleans, > regardless of color, are nice people, and that a lot of them were

penned

> up there like animals when the National Guard arrived and I don't know > what to say after that except they needed help and all I hear is

about how

> this paperwork didn't get signed and that paperwork didn't get

signed and

> that's why it took four days until they finally got that help. > > -E

[klr6501995]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, scott quillen wrote:

> > What upsets me the most is the finger-pointing at the federal

government while many seem quick to forgive those who REALLY dropped the ball - city/county/state officials - those with PRIMARY responsibility to care for those in their immediate vicinity.

> > Regards, > Scott >

Thank you for saying it for me. I've avoided this topic as I never wanted my opinion in print forever. This is the first political topic that I'd say both sides have strong merit. even the "loony conspiracy theories"

[Eric L. Green]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, scott quillen wrote:

> What upsets me the most is the finger-pointing at the federal government > while many seem quick to forgive those who REALLY dropped the ball - > city/county/state officials - those with PRIMARY responsibility to care > for those in their immediate vicinity.

Err, when people are dying and FEMA has control of the resources to help them, I don't give a flying flip about legal BS. FEMA had the resources, and refused to use them for FOUR DAYS because, get this, THE EFFIN' PAPERWORK HAD NOT COME THROUGH. My god, what kind of ANIMAL gives a **** about legal bull**** when people are dying? What kind of ANIMAL whines that somehow it's the LOCAL people who are responsible for FEMA hijacking their resources at gunpoint and diverting them... well, we still don't know where FEMA sent Parish President Broussard's water and generators that they hijacked at GUNPOINT at the Department and turned around and sent them to FEMA warehouses in Baton Rouge because, get this, "Jefferson Parish hasn't filed the proper paperwork that says they need this assistance." This was stuff that Parish President Broussard had ordered because he was on the ground and he KNEW what his people needed, and FEMA *TURNED IT AWAY! AT GUNPOINT!* Tell me this is the local people's fault again. Tell me that. How the **** are they supposed to help their local people when FEMA is *STEALING THEIR SUPPLIES!* My God, Parish President Broussard even had to post an *ARMED GUARD* on his communications lines because, get this, FEMA was upset that he'd ordered those supplies for his people without filing the proper paperwork, and they CUT HIS COMMUNICATIONS LINES! And this was Parish President Broussard's fault?! Help was trying to get in. People were trying to bring supplies in for those people, once they learned that those people were trapped in New Orleans. The American Red Cross, EVERY DAY, on the Mayor of New Orleans's request, was requesting from FEMA that they be allowed to bring in food and water and portable toilets for the people trapped in New Orleans. And FEMA WOULD NOT LET THEM IN, FEMA told them that no, they didn't have the proper paperwork showing that a request had been made for the assistance and thus they couldn't get in. And because there was only one way for aid to get into New Orleans, only one road that was above water, the Red Cross couldn't just say "f*** FEMA, we're going in", because, get this, FEMA had a CHECKPOINT on that one road, staffed by Department of Homeland Security agents, and was turning away assistance *AT GUNPOINT*. But this is all the victim's fault because, well, the victims, not FEMA, turned that help away... That's wrong. That's just so wrong. So wrong in so many ways. I've heard stories now from THREE PARISHES where they were trying to take care of their people, and where assistance they tried to bring in for their people, water and food and generators and other supplies, were HIJACKED AT GUNPOINT by Department of Homeland Security goons because FEMA had "detirmined that these materials are more needed elsewhere". As far as I know, all that happened was that those materials ended up in warehouses in Baton Rouge until "a proper request on the proper form has been submitted". My GOD, this is the LOCALS' fault? That water and food and generators and other supplies that they've ordered are being HIJACKED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?! I do agree with you on one thing: Governor Kathleen Blanco bears primary responsibility for all this. She should have set up a coordination office outside of FEMA (never mind that federal law and Presidential decree set up FEMA as the coordinating agency) and when FEMA started interfering with the ability of local governments to provide for their own, she should have dispatched the Louisiana State Police to escort the aid to where it was needed and arrest the DHS agents who were turning the assistance away. She should have told those federal GOONS to get out of her state, and then taken care of her people with the generous assistance that was pouring in from around the nation. As my mother put it from where she now is on high ground in Pineville, yes, the state got jacked around by the feds, but Blanco let them do it, and Blanco won't get re-elected. But as far as the local guys go? In my book, they are ALL heros. They didn't abandon the ship. They were right there, fighting with everything they had, doing their best to care for their people. Blaming them because FEMA turned away the help they needed to care for their people because some BS form hadn't been filled out in triplicate... that's just wrong. Just plain wrong. -E

[scott quillen]

Eric, Sounds like you've got it all figured out - what shoulda been done, whom shoulda done it and who to blame for it not getting done that way...so I guess there's nothing more to say on the subject. BTW, If your personal physical state matches your tone...I sure hope you don't have blood pressure issues, or a bad heart.... ;^) Regards, Scott "Eric L. Green" wrote:

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, scott quillen wrote: > What upsets me the most is the finger-pointing at the federal government > while many seem quick to forgive those who REALLY dropped the ball - > city/county/state officials - those with PRIMARY responsibility to care > for those in their immediate vicinity. Err, when people are dying and FEMA has control of the resources to help them, I don't give a flying flip about legal BS. FEMA had the resources, and refused to use them for FOUR DAYS because, get this, THE EFFIN' PAPERWORK HAD NOT COME THROUGH. My god, what kind of ANIMAL gives a **** about legal bull**** when people are dying? What kind of ANIMAL whines that somehow it's the LOCAL people who are responsible for FEMA hijacking their resources at gunpoint and diverting them... well, we still don't know where FEMA sent Parish President Broussard's water and generators that they hijacked at GUNPOINT at the Department and turned around and sent them to FEMA warehouses in Baton Rouge because, get this, "Jefferson Parish hasn't filed the proper paperwork that says they need this assistance." This was stuff that Parish President Broussard had ordered because he was on the ground and he KNEW what his people needed, and FEMA *TURNED IT AWAY! AT GUNPOINT!* Tell me this is the local people's fault again. Tell me that. How the **** are they supposed to help their local people when FEMA is *STEALING THEIR SUPPLIES!* My God, Parish President Broussard even had to post an *ARMED GUARD* on his communications lines because, get this, FEMA was upset that he'd ordered those supplies for his people without filing the proper paperwork, and they CUT HIS COMMUNICATIONS LINES! And this was Parish President Broussard's fault?! Help was trying to get in. People were trying to bring supplies in for those people, once they learned that those people were trapped in New Orleans. The American Red Cross, EVERY DAY, on the Mayor of New Orleans's request, was requesting from FEMA that they be allowed to bring in food and water and portable toilets for the people trapped in New Orleans. And FEMA WOULD NOT LET THEM IN, FEMA told them that no, they didn't have the proper paperwork showing that a request had been made for the assistance and thus they couldn't get in. And because there was only one way for aid to get into New Orleans, only one road that was above water, the Red Cross couldn't just say "f*** FEMA, we're going in", because, get this, FEMA had a CHECKPOINT on that one road, staffed by Department of Homeland Security agents, and was turning away assistance *AT GUNPOINT*. But this is all the victim's fault because, well, the victims, not FEMA, turned that help away... That's wrong. That's just so wrong. So wrong in so many ways. I've heard stories now from THREE PARISHES where they were trying to take care of their people, and where assistance they tried to bring in for their people, water and food and generators and other supplies, were HIJACKED AT GUNPOINT by Department of Homeland Security goons because FEMA had "detirmined that these materials are more needed elsewhere". As far as I know, all that happened was that those materials ended up in warehouses in Baton Rouge until "a proper request on the proper form has been submitted". My GOD, this is the LOCALS' fault? That water and food and generators and other supplies that they've ordered are being HIJACKED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?! I do agree with you on one thing: Governor Kathleen Blanco bears primary responsibility for all this. She should have set up a coordination office outside of FEMA (never mind that federal law and Presidential decree set up FEMA as the coordinating agency) and when FEMA started interfering with the ability of local governments to provide for their own, she should have dispatched the Louisiana State Police to escort the aid to where it was needed and arrest the DHS agents who were turning the assistance away. She should have told those federal GOONS to get out of her state, and then taken care of her people with the generous assistance that was pouring in from around the nation. As my mother put it from where she now is on high ground in Pineville, yes, the state got jacked around by the feds, but Blanco let them do it, and Blanco won't get re-elected. But as far as the local guys go? In my book, they are ALL heros. They didn't abandon the ship. They were right there, fighting with everything they had, doing their best to care for their people. Blaming them because FEMA turned away the help they needed to care for their people because some BS form hadn't been filled out in triplicate... that's just wrong. Just plain wrong. -E Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Blake Sobiloff]

Breaking news from http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011594.php>: Red Cross Barred From Super Dome and Convention Center? According to Hugh Hewitt, Major Garrett of Fox News is reporting that the Red Cross "had prepositioned water, food, blankets and hygiene products for delivery to the Superdome and the Convention Center in the immediate aftermath of the hurricane, but were blocked from delivering those supplies by orders of the Louisiana state government, which did not want to attract people to the Superdome and/or Convention Center." Explosive, obviously, if true. Hugh has interviewed Garrett, who says the report comes from "sources at the highest levels of the Red Cross." UPDATE: Several readers report seeing this statement made by Red Cross officials. Jane Ehrgott writes: I saw the woman who was the spokesperson for the Red Cross on tonight's Shepard Smith Report. She said on that interview that the Louisiana "STATE HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT." stopped them from going to the Superdome in the immediate aftermath. I was shocked. Kent Anderson writes: Your story on the red cross being barred from nola was confirmed wed morning by an official spokesperson of the red cross on the diane ream npr show. a caller inquired if it was true and she (the spokesman) replied unequivocally that it was true. UPDATE: David Kolbe sends a link: A Red Cross official, Carol Miller, said on NPR's Diane Rehm show this morning that the Red Cross was told not to provide aid at the Superdome by the Louisiana, not U.S., Department of Homeland Security. Audio here: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/ (click link on left side of page) the comment is about 35:40 into the show. I've listened to the exchange, and the Red Cross representative clearly confirms that the Louisiana authorities directed the Red Cross not to operate in New Orleans lest residents be tempted to stay. The Super Dome and convention center aren't specifically mentioned, but obviously would be included in the prohibition. Other readers have pointed out that the same information is on the Red Cross web site. So there isn't any doubt about the basic point. The thing that would make it more explosive, I guess, is if the Red Cross had specifically stockpiled materiel to go to the Super Dome and convention center, as indicated by Garrett's report on Fox. THE LAST WORD: The Political Teen has the video of Major Garrett on Fox, and RadioBlogger has the transcript of Garrett's interview on Hugh Hewitt's show tonight. Some key exchanges: I was watching up on the corner television in my studio, and it's headlined that the Red Cross was blocked from delivering supplies to the Superdome, Major Garrett. Tell us what you found out. MG: Well, the Red Cross, Hugh, had pre-positioned a literal vanguard of trucks with water, food, blankets and hygiene items. They're not really big into medical response items, but those are the three biggies that we saw people at the New Orleans Superdom, and the convention center, needing most accutely. And all of us in America, I think, reasonably asked ourselves, geez. You know, I watch hurricanes all the time. And I see correspondents standing among rubble and refugees and evacuaees. But I always either see that Red Cross or Salvation Army truck nearby. Why don't I see that? HH: And the answer is? MG: The answer is the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, that is the state agency responsible for that state's homeland security, told the Red Cross explicitly, you cannot come. HH: Now Major Garrett, on what day did they block the delivery? Do you know specifically? MG: I am told by the Red Cross, immediately after the storm passed. HH: Okay, so that would be on Monday afternoon. MG: That would have been Monday or Tuesday. *** HH: I also have to conclude from what you're telling me, Major Garrett, is that had they been allowed to deliver when they wanted to deliver, which is at least a little bit prior to the levee, or at least prior to the waters rising, the supplies would have been pre-positioned, and the relief...you know, the people in the Superdome, and possibly at the convention center, I want to come back to that, would have been spared the worst of their misery. MG: They would have been spared the lack of food, water and hygiene. I don't think there's any doubt that they would not have been spared the indignity of having nor workable bathrooms in short order. HH: Now Major Garrett, let's turn to the convention center, because this will be, in the aftermath...did the Red Cross have ready to go into the convention center the supplies that we're talking about as well? MG: Sure. They could have gone to any location, provided that the water wasn't too high, and they got some assistance. The Democrats may need to re-think their calls for an investigation. -- Blake Sobiloff San Jose, CA (USA)

[Eric L. Green]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Conall wrote:

> Watergate never happened. > There are no conspiracies. > You may go back to work now. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" > wrote: >> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Conall wrote: >>>(loony conspiracy theory) >> Uhm, let's not jump the shark here.

Uhm, George W. Bush is no Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon was vile and evil, but at least he was competent. In this case, no conspiracy is needed for explaining why FEMA was turning away the assistance that New Orleans needed *AT GUNPOINT*. Just bureaucratic "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!" incompetence, where nothing gets done unless it's filed in triplicate on the proper form, and where if you don't have the right form filled out the right way, sorry, you don't get assistance. Same deal with the levees. The levees broke in the logical places where they would break if overtopped -- i.e., in the places where recent construction had happened and thus the ground cover that would usually keep the base of the floodwalls from washing away hadn't grown in yet. No conspiracy is necessary. The levees were simply overwhelmed by the storm surge. The locals should have just told FEMA to go take a hike. But they were hoping that the federal government would come through on the promised assistance. Suckers. Now, I *will* tell you that when the Federal government looks at New Orleans right now, they see *opportunity*. The local government is going to dissolve as soon as its money runs out in two weeks, because stores and restaurants and businesses that are underwater aren't paying sales taxes and income taxes (New Orleans has a city income tax, whereby if income is earned in the city you're taxed on it... that's how they tax the suburbs for the "privilige" of using the New Orleans infrastructure). Once the city government dissolves because it has run out of money... then what? I'm almost afraid to ask... Finally: Ignore the national press about anything happening in New Orleans. They're a bunch of sensationalistic morons. They know nothing. They report rumors as if they're facts, they don't report the REAL stories like the ones about aid being turned away at gunpoint, etc., they don't care what's true, all they care about is ratings. What you need to do, if you want the REAL story, is go to the web sites of the local media, like http://www.nola.com (the New Orleans Times-Picayune) and http://www.wwl.com (WWL Radio, you can get their streaming radio). They're the guys actually there (well, in Baton Rouge at the moment) who care. They're the guys from where I found out that FEMA had turned away at gunpoint not only aid bound for New Orleans, but aid bound for Jefferson Parish and St. Tammany Parish too because, get this, "they don't need it" (as far as I know, that aid is still sitting in warehouses in Baton Rouge because the "proper paperwork" hasn't been filed in triplicate with those b****** at FEMA). They're also where I'm finding out that FEMA is rejecting applications for emergency assistance by homeowners whose homes were destroyed in the flooding "until our inspectors verify that your home is destroyed", these are people who are living in their CARS right now because they ran out of money and their bank is underwater, and FEMA won't even let them into the emergency shelters because they weren't evacuated by bus from New Orleans and thus don't really "need" assistance. It's horrible. Just horrible. Read. listen. I swear, we'd have been better off in Louisiana if the feds had just stayed home. WTF use are they? As far as I'm concerned, the only thing our federal government is good at is killing its own people, and the whole bloody thing just needs to be abolished and replaced with the government we had in 1906, which had emergency assistance and supplies on the spot within TWO HOURS when San Francisco was destroyed. Anybody know how we can clone Teddy Roosevelt? -E

[scott quillen]

Blake, GREAT post! Thanks for the info :^) Regards, Scott Blake Sobiloff wrote: Breaking news from : Red Cross Barred From Super Dome and Convention Center? According to Hugh Hewitt, Major Garrett of Fox News is reporting that the Red Cross "had prepositioned water, food, blankets and hygiene products for delivery to the Superdome and the Convention Center in the immediate aftermath of the hurricane, but were blocked from delivering those supplies by orders of the Louisiana state government, which did not want to attract people to the Superdome and/or Convention Center." Explosive, obviously, if true. Hugh has interviewed Garrett, who says the report comes from "sources at the highest levels of the Red Cross." UPDATE: Several readers report seeing this statement made by Red Cross officials. Jane Ehrgott writes: I saw the woman who was the spokesperson for the Red Cross on tonight's Shepard Smith Report. She said on that interview that the Louisiana "STATE HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT." stopped them from going to the Superdome in the immediate aftermath. I was shocked. Kent Anderson writes: Your story on the red cross being barred from nola was confirmed wed morning by an official spokesperson of the red cross on the diane ream npr show. a caller inquired if it was true and she (the spokesman) replied unequivocally that it was true. UPDATE: David Kolbe sends a link: A Red Cross official, Carol Miller, said on NPR's Diane Rehm show this morning that the Red Cross was told not to provide aid at the Superdome by the Louisiana, not U.S., Department of Homeland Security. Audio here: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/ (click link on left side of page) the comment is about 35:40 into the show. I've listened to the exchange, and the Red Cross representative clearly confirms that the Louisiana authorities directed the Red Cross not to operate in New Orleans lest residents be tempted to stay. The Super Dome and convention center aren't specifically mentioned, but obviously would be included in the prohibition. Other readers have pointed out that the same information is on the Red Cross web site. So there isn't any doubt about the basic point. The thing that would make it more explosive, I guess, is if the Red Cross had specifically stockpiled materiel to go to the Super Dome and convention center, as indicated by Garrett's report on Fox. THE LAST WORD: The Political Teen has the video of Major Garrett on Fox, and RadioBlogger has the transcript of Garrett's interview on Hugh Hewitt's show tonight. Some key exchanges: I was watching up on the corner television in my studio, and it's headlined that the Red Cross was blocked from delivering supplies to the Superdome, Major Garrett. Tell us what you found out. MG: Well, the Red Cross, Hugh, had pre-positioned a literal vanguard of trucks with water, food, blankets and hygiene items. They're not really big into medical response items, but those are the three biggies that we saw people at the New Orleans Superdom, and the convention center, needing most accutely. And all of us in America, I think, reasonably asked ourselves, geez. You know, I watch hurricanes all the time. And I see correspondents standing among rubble and refugees and evacuaees. But I always either see that Red Cross or Salvation Army truck nearby. Why don't I see that? HH: And the answer is? MG: The answer is the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, that is the state agency responsible for that state's homeland security, told the Red Cross explicitly, you cannot come. HH: Now Major Garrett, on what day did they block the delivery? Do you know specifically? MG: I am told by the Red Cross, immediately after the storm passed. HH: Okay, so that would be on Monday afternoon. MG: That would have been Monday or Tuesday. *** HH: I also have to conclude from what you're telling me, Major Garrett, is that had they been allowed to deliver when they wanted to deliver, which is at least a little bit prior to the levee, or at least prior to the waters rising, the supplies would have been pre-positioned, and the relief...you know, the people in the Superdome, and possibly at the convention center, I want to come back to that, would have been spared the worst of their misery. MG: They would have been spared the lack of food, water and hygiene. I don't think there's any doubt that they would not have been spared the indignity of having nor workable bathrooms in short order. HH: Now Major Garrett, let's turn to the convention center, because this will be, in the aftermath...did the Red Cross have ready to go into the convention center the supplies that we're talking about as well? MG: Sure. They could have gone to any location, provided that the water wasn't too high, and they got some assistance. The Democrats may need to re-think their calls for an investigation. -- Blake Sobiloff San Jose, CA (USA) Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric L. Green]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, scott quillen wrote:

> Sounds like you've got it all figured out - what shoulda been done, whom > shoulda done it and who to blame for it not getting done that way...so I > guess there's nothing more to say on the subject.

All I know is what DID get done, which was that help people needed got turned away at GUNPOINT by our so-called "federal government", and that the locals needed, that the federal government was the only government with the resources to provide, didn't arrive for FOUR DAYS. I don't know why this all happened. I admit that my speculation, that it was all about the proper forms not being filed in triplicate with FEMA, is just that, a speculation. But the fact that the help got turned away, and that the federal government didn't bring its own resources in for days... go read the New Orleans press. Forget the talking heads on CNN and Fox and etc., they weren't there, they don't care, all they care about is ratings. Go read the local press.

> BTW, If your personal physical state matches your tone...I sure hope you > don't have blood pressure issues, or a bad heart.... ;^)

This isn't political BS games with me. This is personal. These are people I know. With you, it's just about scoring political points. Well, I'm tired of poltiical points BS. When people need help, turning away help they need is just WRONG. And thanks for your concern about my health. Yes, this has been a very stressful time for me. When I see 1/4th of my home state homeless, when people I know have had horrible things happen to them, yes, it's stressful. When I see my federal government that I pay taxes to actually HINDERING rescue efforts to help people, yes, I become outraged. I'm just saddened that people who know nothing, who've never been to Louisiana, are going to pontificate on how it's all "the responsibility of local government" because that's what some moron who knows nothing told them on national radio or national TV. Right now, my heart goes out to those people on the ground down there, the local governments trying their best to help their people despite FEMA. Nagin and Broussard and the rest of the parish officials down there are doing the best they can with what little they have, and deserve praise for not abandoning their people when any reasonable person would have been hightailing it for high ground. Once again, I urge you to go read the local press from that area, not those dipstick know-nothings in the national press who don't care what's happening, they just care about sensational stories no matter whether they're true or not, and repeat npoliticians' lies like gospel truth. I'm sick of all this political points-scoring BS. People need help. We need to help them. The federal government had -- has -- resources that the locals need, has help that the locals need. Let's get that help to the locals so they can rebuild their lives. Can we agree at least on that much?! - Eric

[scott quillen]

Eric, It's not likely that we're going to agree on much, especially when you make statements like: " With you, it's just about scoring political points. Well, I'm tired of poltiical points BS." You DON'T KNOW ME...so back off with your preconceived notions about my intentions! One observation...and I may nbt be the only one who feels this way...reading your posts on this matter, it's like NO ONE EXCEPT ERIC GREEN knows anything about what is currently happening in that area or what happened leading up to Katrina's devastation and the week following... It's almost like YOU have an EXCLUSIVE insider's point of view... It doesn't matter...we each have our own opinions and we're BOTH entitled to them... We can agree to disagree... And YES FRED...we're still having fun with this one ;^) Regards, Scott "Eric L. Green" wrote:

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, scott quillen wrote: > Sounds like you've got it all figured out - what shoulda been done, whom > shoulda done it and who to blame for it not getting done that way...so I > guess there's nothing more to say on the subject. All I know is what DID get done, which was that help people needed got turned away at GUNPOINT by our so-called "federal government", and that the locals needed, that the federal government was the only government with the resources to provide, didn't arrive for FOUR DAYS. I don't know why this all happened. I admit that my speculation, that it was all about the proper forms not being filed in triplicate with FEMA, is just that, a speculation. But the fact that the help got turned away, and that the federal government didn't bring its own resources in for days... go read the New Orleans press. Forget the talking heads on CNN and Fox and etc., they weren't there, they don't care, all they care about is ratings. Go read the local press. > BTW, If your personal physical state matches your tone...I sure hope you > don't have blood pressure issues, or a bad heart.... ;^) This isn't political BS games with me. This is personal. These are people I know. With you, it's just about scoring political points. Well, I'm tired of poltiical points BS. When people need help, turning away help they need is just WRONG. And thanks for your concern about my health. Yes, this has been a very stressful time for me. When I see 1/4th of my home state homeless, when people I know have had horrible things happen to them, yes, it's stressful. When I see my federal government that I pay taxes to actually HINDERING rescue efforts to help people, yes, I become outraged. I'm just saddened that people who know nothing, who've never been to Louisiana, are going to pontificate on how it's all "the responsibility of local government" because that's what some moron who knows nothing told them on national radio or national TV. Right now, my heart goes out to those people on the ground down there, the local governments trying their best to help their people despite FEMA. Nagin and Broussard and the rest of the parish officials down there are doing the best they can with what little they have, and deserve praise for not abandoning their people when any reasonable person would have been hightailing it for high ground. Once again, I urge you to go read the local press from that area, not those dipstick know-nothings in the national press who don't care what's happening, they just care about sensational stories no matter whether they're true or not, and repeat npoliticians' lies like gospel truth. I'm sick of all this political points-scoring BS. People need help. We need to help them. The federal government had -- has -- resources that the locals need, has help that the locals need. Let's get that help to the locals so they can rebuild their lives. Can we agree at least on that much?! - Eric --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chris Krok]

Reason Online has an interesting article regarding the "looting:" http://www.reason.com/links/links090705.shtml One thing I've heard, but can't find a link to, is that FEMA explicitly states that federal aid for any emergency should not be expected for 72-96 hours. I was told the same about local response to earthquakes, when I took Pasadena's Emergency Response Training course a few years ago (although the timeline was more like 24-48 hours). The reason being that, no matter how bad it is at your location, it's worse somewhere else. I don't think anyone around here _hasn't_ heard of a "three-day pack," but I'm sure most people don't have them. Shame, because it doesn't really cost much to piece one together over time. No excuse, of course, for the management idiocy we've been seeing, like the recruiting of firefighters for PR work. But I think that comparisons to San Francisco '06 are moot, and even if TR was at the helm, he would have a hard time overcoming 100 years of bureaucratic inertia. Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok Explosion Dynamics Laboratory John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125