He will put in a new set of rings (58,000 km) while the barrel is off unless it needs more attention. Valve guide seals, all (4) balancer bearings just to be safer. Too bad that bearing cage failed but no thoughts as to possible prevention. It would appear to be a simple cage failure and that's likely the highest vibration area on the bike so one might expect that one to go first. He likely just got a bearing which failed earlier than average. Someone here or KLR Forum suggested die grinding the lip to allow the bearing to be withdrawn from the outside and while I like the idea as that kind of thing has worked for other applications, not going there on someone else' bike, especially such a low mileage. I thought of placing 6 or 8 machine screws into tapped holes such that the heads would act as bearing retainer but were it mine and not being able to predict the axial loading, it would seem to be poor value. I'd be worrying about a possible failure when taking it anywhere. He lives in Quebec and just got back here from Florida so maybe not the one to risk unusual solutions?
Perhaps Tom might try that with a bearing in that discard case to see how grinding out the lip works for extraction and how much it takes to press the bearing to move when it's near maximum temperature. I don't have a left case at hand to try. A person could pack the bearing and shaft with grease, then screen off the area with plastic to keep swarf from getting inside the transmission and spaces when grinding so might be a useful approach to try on another application. Thoughts? <><><><><><> <><><><><><> Norm, My thoughts on grinding to remove a bearing are in this case it is not worth the problems or time. Far too many possible problems that in maybe 3-4 hours of work can be eliminated by splitting the cases. Once the bearing is out how do you install the replacement bearing? What bearing is sourced for a replacement since the OEM bearing can't be installed from the outside? You already mentioned the issues with bearing retention. Timing of the balancer weight and shaft will also be an issue. Once any modification is made to the case it will difficult to reverse the process. Splitting the cases gives an opportunity to inspect parts and make an honest effort to clean any debris inside the engine. Just my thoughts but if it was my engine I surely wouldn't want someone to try to replace that bearing without splitting the cases. Even at $95 an hour labor rate. <><><><> As for not taking in work for others. I've got one or two guys I am willing to work on their bikes/stuff and that is always for free. Guys that want to hire a guy like me don't usually want to pay what the work is worth and usually don't want to even pay way less than what the work is worth. If they are willing to pay they often want their work moved to the head of the line. Machine shop work is just as bad as is welding work. Many guys want you to drill a hole in a part for them but don't know what size hole or where exactly they want/need it. Some even want you to supply the materials for their projects since there is a bunch of metal in the rack. Welding is often thought of as easy by the guys that don't have a clue about what is involved to get a good welding repair. Getting used a time or two can quickly put a bad taste to that kind of relationship. Something I was lucky to learn is when a guy asks you about working on a project if you aren't interested immediately say no. For ones that might be of interest don't go to them to look at the project. Tell them to bring it around and you'll take a look at it to see if it is something you'll consider working on. If it arrives on a trailer don't let it be off loaded until you've had a quick look and decided it is worth further consideration. Maybe 95% won't care enough about the project to bring it to you. That alone solves a lot of problems. : ) Every minute you are working on someone else's project you aren't working on your own projects. Best,
Jeff Saline
The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota
75 R90/6, 03 KLR650
. . . . . . . . . .
____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. nklr- weird choices
-
Jeff Saline
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:02 pm
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
#ygrps-yiv-1079168603 .ygrps-yiv-1079168603ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1079168603ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-1079168603cite { BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-1079168603cite2 { BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;MARGIN-TOP:3px;PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 .ygrps-yiv-1079168603plain PRE { FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 .ygrps-yiv-1079168603plain TT { FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 A IMG { BORDER-BOTTOM:0px;BORDER-LEFT:0px;BORDER-TOP:0px;BORDER-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 { FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 .ygrps-yiv-1079168603plain PRE { FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1079168603 .ygrps-yiv-1079168603plain TT { FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:12pt;} On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 02:50:59 +0000 "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Bike is at my friend's shop so will drop by tomorrow to have a look at cylinder hand head.
I'm glad not to be committed to the work. Talked with my brother-in-law who is a retired tech also and he said the same thing. He's not doing work for others any more because it's too much pressure and ....lazy?
He will put in a new set of rings (58,000 km) while the barrel is off unless it needs more attention. Valve guide seals, all (4) balancer bearings just to be safer. Too bad that bearing cage failed but no thoughts as to possible prevention. It would appear to be a simple cage failure and that's likely the highest vibration area on the bike so one might expect that one to go first. He likely just got a bearing which failed earlier than average. Someone here or KLR Forum suggested die grinding the lip to allow the bearing to be withdrawn from the outside and while I like the idea as that kind of thing has worked for other applications, not going there on someone else' bike, especially such a low mileage. I thought of placing 6 or 8 machine screws into tapped holes such that the heads would act as bearing retainer but were it mine and not being able to predict the axial loading, it would seem to be poor value. I'd be worrying about a possible failure when taking it anywhere. He lives in Quebec and just got back here from Florida so maybe not the one to risk unusual solutions?
Perhaps Tom might try that with a bearing in that discard case to see how grinding out the lip works for extraction and how much it takes to press the bearing to move when it's near maximum temperature. I don't have a left case at hand to try. A person could pack the bearing and shaft with grease, then screen off the area with plastic to keep swarf from getting inside the transmission and spaces when grinding so might be a useful approach to try on another application. Thoughts? <><><><><><> <><><><><><> Norm, My thoughts on grinding to remove a bearing are in this case it is not worth the problems or time. Far too many possible problems that in maybe 3-4 hours of work can be eliminated by splitting the cases. Once the bearing is out how do you install the replacement bearing? What bearing is sourced for a replacement since the OEM bearing can't be installed from the outside? You already mentioned the issues with bearing retention. Timing of the balancer weight and shaft will also be an issue. Once any modification is made to the case it will difficult to reverse the process. Splitting the cases gives an opportunity to inspect parts and make an honest effort to clean any debris inside the engine. Just my thoughts but if it was my engine I surely wouldn't want someone to try to replace that bearing without splitting the cases. Even at $95 an hour labor rate. <><><><> As for not taking in work for others. I've got one or two guys I am willing to work on their bikes/stuff and that is always for free. Guys that want to hire a guy like me don't usually want to pay what the work is worth and usually don't want to even pay way less than what the work is worth. If they are willing to pay they often want their work moved to the head of the line. Machine shop work is just as bad as is welding work. Many guys want you to drill a hole in a part for them but don't know what size hole or where exactly they want/need it. Some even want you to supply the materials for their projects since there is a bunch of metal in the rack. Welding is often thought of as easy by the guys that don't have a clue about what is involved to get a good welding repair. Getting used a time or two can quickly put a bad taste to that kind of relationship. Something I was lucky to learn is when a guy asks you about working on a project if you aren't interested immediately say no. For ones that might be of interest don't go to them to look at the project. Tell them to bring it around and you'll take a look at it to see if it is something you'll consider working on. If it arrives on a trailer don't let it be off loaded until you've had a quick look and decided it is worth further consideration. Maybe 95% won't care enough about the project to bring it to you. That alone solves a lot of problems. : ) Every minute you are working on someone else's project you aren't working on your own projects. Best,
Jeff Saline
The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota
75 R90/6, 03 KLR650
. . . . . . . . . .
____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
He will put in a new set of rings (58,000 km) while the barrel is off unless it needs more attention. Valve guide seals, all (4) balancer bearings just to be safer. Too bad that bearing cage failed but no thoughts as to possible prevention. It would appear to be a simple cage failure and that's likely the highest vibration area on the bike so one might expect that one to go first. He likely just got a bearing which failed earlier than average. Someone here or KLR Forum suggested die grinding the lip to allow the bearing to be withdrawn from the outside and while I like the idea as that kind of thing has worked for other applications, not going there on someone else' bike, especially such a low mileage. I thought of placing 6 or 8 machine screws into tapped holes such that the heads would act as bearing retainer but were it mine and not being able to predict the axial loading, it would seem to be poor value. I'd be worrying about a possible failure when taking it anywhere. He lives in Quebec and just got back here from Florida so maybe not the one to risk unusual solutions?
Perhaps Tom might try that with a bearing in that discard case to see how grinding out the lip works for extraction and how much it takes to press the bearing to move when it's near maximum temperature. I don't have a left case at hand to try. A person could pack the bearing and shaft with grease, then screen off the area with plastic to keep swarf from getting inside the transmission and spaces when grinding so might be a useful approach to try on another application. Thoughts? <><><><><><> <><><><><><> Norm, My thoughts on grinding to remove a bearing are in this case it is not worth the problems or time. Far too many possible problems that in maybe 3-4 hours of work can be eliminated by splitting the cases. Once the bearing is out how do you install the replacement bearing? What bearing is sourced for a replacement since the OEM bearing can't be installed from the outside? You already mentioned the issues with bearing retention. Timing of the balancer weight and shaft will also be an issue. Once any modification is made to the case it will difficult to reverse the process. Splitting the cases gives an opportunity to inspect parts and make an honest effort to clean any debris inside the engine. Just my thoughts but if it was my engine I surely wouldn't want someone to try to replace that bearing without splitting the cases. Even at $95 an hour labor rate. <><><><> As for not taking in work for others. I've got one or two guys I am willing to work on their bikes/stuff and that is always for free. Guys that want to hire a guy like me don't usually want to pay what the work is worth and usually don't want to even pay way less than what the work is worth. If they are willing to pay they often want their work moved to the head of the line. Machine shop work is just as bad as is welding work. Many guys want you to drill a hole in a part for them but don't know what size hole or where exactly they want/need it. Some even want you to supply the materials for their projects since there is a bunch of metal in the rack. Welding is often thought of as easy by the guys that don't have a clue about what is involved to get a good welding repair. Getting used a time or two can quickly put a bad taste to that kind of relationship. Something I was lucky to learn is when a guy asks you about working on a project if you aren't interested immediately say no. For ones that might be of interest don't go to them to look at the project. Tell them to bring it around and you'll take a look at it to see if it is something you'll consider working on. If it arrives on a trailer don't let it be off loaded until you've had a quick look and decided it is worth further consideration. Maybe 95% won't care enough about the project to bring it to you. That alone solves a lot of problems. : ) Every minute you are working on someone else's project you aren't working on your own projects. Best,
Jeff Saline
The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota
75 R90/6, 03 KLR650
. . . . . . . . . .
____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. -
Norm Keller
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:48 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
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I agree that adding an unknown reliability factor wouldn't be worth the time wrenching for me. By the look of it, once the old one is out, hot air gun and freezing the bearing would be the same as installing from the other side into stripped cases. I'm thinking that one might have to use spray cooling to cool the shaft also to maintain clearance while installing. The shaft and case interference are obviously factors which prevent the bearing from moving inward. I've installed a series of screws or run a bead to retain some transmission bearings in a housing which had the stop ridge broken out. It might even be find to MIG a bead or several segments into the aluminum after the bearing is reinstalled. Maybe load the bearing with spatter gel? The shaft isn't loaded radially so one wouldn't have to contend with side thrust while installing the bearing. Timing the shaft isn't a problem as the index is the same regardless. The weight would be still in place on the shaft and the sprocket indexes to the shaft, then the sprocket to the chain silver links. Not arguing with your points at all, just throwing out what's in my mind. I'm 66 and have been wrenching either full time professionally or part time/hobby since 1960 so 50 years is enough that it's not as much fun as used to be. Not that much is new although I do hate to give up on a challenge. Another factor is the personal interest and whether something is interesting enough to compensate for the stress involved in having to be on top of things 100%. I still do ABS brake modulators, mostly from Europe, alternators, fuel pumps and some other specialized component repairs which satisfy much need to wrench. Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line? Seems much less than even a couple of years ago. Facebook is too chaotic and repeat, repeat, but may dilute the web group numbers enough that they are losing their way? Norm ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jeff Saline" To: normkel32@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2015-02-03 7:54:58 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 02:50:59 +0000 "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Bike is at my friend's shop so will drop by tomorrow to have a look at cylinder hand head. I'm glad not to be committed to the work. Talked with my brother-in-law who is a retired tech also and he said the same thing. He's not doing work for others any more because it's too much pressure and ....lazy?
-
mark ward
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
20 minutes, or less with a Dremel (very small, thin. cutting disk) and you would have it out. (That said)
I believe, Jeff Has a good point about the shaft DROPPING.
But If still willing to try to experiment with a "short cut", ...knowing,.... you most likely will still have split the case, there Here is another thought.
Insert a 7 inch +- wood dowel into the center hole of the shaft, then tie a LOOP of thin strong rope (nylon?) and attach above, and "Do The Twist" Chubby Checker. (Tighten, I'm sure you know what I meen) To Raise and Hold the shaft, while removing the races.
Once done, Prop, hold, etc. the dowel and have someone remove the string at the top, & Slide the New race down the string/rope over the dowel etc. then reattach the string while slowly tapping the new race in,
(When sliding the race down Possibly follow it with a Large Socket to tap against, as you most likely had already planned on using) Travel Safe! Travel Well!
Mark (West Michigan)
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:45 PM, "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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li:last-child { border-right:none !important;} #ygrps-yiv-264098895I'm not intending to make the case that this should be done but would like to investigate a bit more just out of interest. I agree that adding an unknown reliability factor wouldn't be worth the time wrenching for me. By the look of it, once the old one is out, hot air gun and freezing the bearing would be the same as installing from the other side into stripped cases. I'm thinking that one might have to use spray cooling to cool the shaft also to maintain clearance while installing. The shaft and case interference are obviously factors which prevent the bearing from moving inward. I've installed a series of screws or run a bead to retain some transmission bearings in a housing which had the stop ridge broken out. It might even be find to MIG a bead or several segments into the aluminum after the bearing is reinstalled. Maybe load the bearing with spatter gel? The shaft isn't loaded radially so one wouldn't have to contend with side thrust while installing the bearing. Timing the shaft isn't a problem as the index is the same regardless. The weight would be still in place on the shaft and the sprocket indexes to the shaft, then the sprocket to the chain silver links. Not arguing with your points at all, just throwing out what's in my mind. I'm 66 and have been wrenching either full time professionally or part time/hobby since 1960 so 50 years is enough that it's not as much fun as used to be. Not that much is new although I do hate to give up on a challenge. Another factor is the personal interest and whether something is interesting enough to compensate for the stress involved in having to be on top of things 100%. I still do ABS brake modulators, mostly from Europe, alternators, fuel pumps and some other specialized component repairs which satisfy much need to wrench. Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line? Seems much less than even a couple of years ago. Facebook is too chaotic and repeat, repeat, but may dilute the web group numbers enough that they are losing their way? Norm ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jeff Saline" To: normkel32@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2015-02-03 7:54:58 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013 On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 02:50:59 +0000 "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Bike is at my friend's shop so will drop by tomorrow to have a look at cylinder hand head. I'm glad not to be committed to the work. Talked with my brother-in-law who is a retired tech also and he said the same thing. He's not doing work for others any more because it's too much pressure and ....lazy?
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Nicholas Ranicar
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:58 pm
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
> Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line?
There are still some lurkers out here. J
I don t have enough technical knowledge to follow everything that s said and done but do appreciate reading about it and occasionally garner a nugget of wisdom that enhances my limited knowledge.
Nic
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mark ward
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
Hey Jeff & Norm
KLR world has a nice Breakdown showing the Clip & Washer etc. like Jeff says, Just sitting there.
it looks like it's all barely holding together like a House of Cards until, the gears & the casing is finished together sandwitching it all into place. LOL
BUT, For all the rest who do not tear down Engines, It is Mainly is a nice article for anyone wanting to understand better the Doo.
Google this Topic line If link below has issues: "So What Exactly is a Doo Hickey"
http://www.klrworld.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=227
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:33 AM, "Nicholas Ranicar nranicar@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line? There are still some lurkers out here. J I don t have enough technical knowledge to follow everything that s said and done but do appreciate reading about it and occasionally garner a nugget of wisdom that enhances my limited knowledge. 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zoot .
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 pm
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
On 2/3/2015 8:19 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:
A truth to Facebook, but the technical interest from lurkers like me hasn't wained. There's a generational comparison question as to interest, but I wonder how much of that is the complexity of the new machine systems, how much is the ability to learn brain surgery from YouTube, and how much is just the new generation working like we still do, but in a bigger pool. I for one very much appreciate the technical looks and observations as it makes me more cognitive of maintenance tweeks, potential weaknesses, and upgrades. Todd> Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off > on line? Seems much less than even a couple of years ago. Facebook is > too chaotic and repeat, repeat, but may dilute the web group numbers > enough that they are losing their way?
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Norm Keller
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:48 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
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That's why I made the eccentrics to engage the ball races. It's a slip fit into the shaft and the shaft doesn't move so there would be no problem with pulling the shaft getting out of position, excepting that it might slide out with the inner race enough to drop the thrust washer from the far end. That would require it to come out about 1/2" so one would have to pay a bit of attention or use a string or electrical tape, something, as you suggest, to keep some control of the shaft. Tipping the bike onto the right side would likely make the whole operation easier. I was also thinking of using a bushing in the center of the shaft to align a hole saw. One would need to grind the set from the teeth and to narrow the teeth to the amount required to just remove the lip + a few thou'. That might be another option as could almost be done by hand. Interesting problem with so many possibles and questions. I haven't slept well the last two nights from thinking about it. Enjoying the problem solving but not the lack of sleeping. 
I'd like to try the process on a donor case but not on someone else'. One aspect I keep wrestling with is that it wouldn't be straight forward to die grind the lip with that hard bearing race against the aluminum. One would have to place a guide/stop or be very attentive or the burr won't last long. Interesting one and will keep it on the list when and if I get another junked left case. Not going to see nearly as much of that stuff now as am winding down doing mechanical repairs. The stress level goes up and the fun down in the last couple of years. ------ Original Message ------ From: "mark ward" To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; "Jeff Saline" ; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-02-04 6:17:26 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
I'd like to try the process on a donor case but not on someone else'. One aspect I keep wrestling with is that it wouldn't be straight forward to die grind the lip with that hard bearing race against the aluminum. One would have to place a guide/stop or be very attentive or the burr won't last long. Interesting one and will keep it on the list when and if I get another junked left case. Not going to see nearly as much of that stuff now as am winding down doing mechanical repairs. The stress level goes up and the fun down in the last couple of years. ------ Original Message ------ From: "mark ward" To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; "Jeff Saline" ; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-02-04 6:17:26 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013 20 minutes, or less with a Dremel (very small, thin. cutting disk) and you would have it out. (That said) I believe, Jeff Has a good point about the shaft DROPPING. But If still willing to try to experiment with a "short cut", ...knowing,.... you most likely will still have split the case, there Here is another thought. Insert a 7 inch +- wood dowel into the center hole of the shaft, then tie a LOOP of thin strong rope (nylon?) and attach above, and "Do The Twist" Chubby Checker. (Tighten, I'm sure you know what I meen) To Raise and Hold the shaft, while removing the races. Once done, Prop, hold, etc. the dowel and have someone remove the string at the top, & Slide the New race down the string/rope over the dowel etc. then reattach the string while slowly tapping the new race in, (When sliding the race down Possibly follow it with a Large Socket to tap against, as you most likely had already planned on using) Travel Safe! Travel Well! Mark (West Michigan) On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:45 PM, "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I'm not intending to make the case that this should be done but would like to investigate a bit more just out of interest. I agree that adding an unknown reliability factor wouldn't be worth the time wrenching for me. By the look of it, once the old one is out, hot air gun and freezing the bearing would be the same as installing from the other side into stripped cases. I'm thinking that one might have to use spray cooling to cool the shaft also to maintain clearance while installing. The shaft and case interference are obviously factors which prevent the bearing from moving inward. I've installed a series of screws or run a bead to retain some transmission bearings in a housing which had the stop ridge broken out. It might even be find to MIG a bead or several segments into the aluminum after the bearing is reinstalled. Maybe load the bearing with spatter gel? The shaft isn't loaded radially so one wouldn't have to contend with side thrust while installing the bearing. Timing the shaft isn't a problem as the index is the same regardless. The weight would be still in place on the shaft and the sprocket indexes to the shaft, then the sprocket to the chain silver links. Not arguing with your points at all, just throwing out what's in my mind. I'm 66 and have been wrenching either full time professionally or part time/hobby since 1960 so 50 years is enough that it's not as much fun as used to be. Not that much is new although I do hate to give up on a challenge. Another factor is the personal interest and whether something is interesting enough to compensate for the stress involved in having to be on top of things 100%. I still do ABS brake modulators, mostly from Europe, alternators, fuel pumps and some other specialized component repairs which satisfy much need to wrench. Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line? Seems much less than even a couple of years ago. Facebook is too chaotic and repeat, repeat, but may dilute the web group numbers enough that they are losing their way? Norm ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jeff Saline" To: normkel32@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2015-02-03 7:54:58 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013 On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 02:50:59 +0000 "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Bike is at my friend's shop so will drop by tomorrow to have a look at cylinder hand head. I'm glad not to be committed to the work. Talked with my brother-in-law who is a retired tech also and he said the same thing. He's not doing work for others any more because it's too much pressure and ....lazy?
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Norm Keller
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:48 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
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#ygrps-yiv-1648278682yiv5170873961ygrp-mlmsg * {LINE-HEIGHT:1.22em;} Here's an interesting view of the balancer bearing which shows that the bearing has been turning on the shaft. The heating is obvious as indicated by the heat and weld marks: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hx6viqc2bttwlop/Balancer%20bearings.jpg?dl=0 Shaft is junk also. The right bearing shows damage from misalignment so a simple LH bearing replacement would not have done the deed. ------ Original Message ------ From: "mark ward" To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; "Jeff Saline" ; "Norm Keller" Sent: 2015-02-04 6:17:26 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
20 minutes, or less with a Dremel (very small, thin. cutting disk) and you would have it out. (That said) I believe, Jeff Has a good point about the shaft DROPPING. But If still willing to try to experiment with a "short cut", ...knowing,.... you most likely will still have split the case, there Here is another thought. Insert a 7 inch +- wood dowel into the center hole of the shaft, then tie a LOOP of thin strong rope (nylon?) and attach above, and "Do The Twist" Chubby Checker. (Tighten, I'm sure you know what I meen) To Raise and Hold the shaft, while removing the races. Once done, Prop, hold, etc. the dowel and have someone remove the string at the top, & Slide the New race down the string/rope over the dowel etc. then reattach the string while slowly tapping the new race in, (When sliding the race down Possibly follow it with a Large Socket to tap against, as you most likely had already planned on using) Travel Safe! Travel Well! Mark (West Michigan) On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:45 PM, "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I'm not intending to make the case that this should be done but would like to investigate a bit more just out of interest. I agree that adding an unknown reliability factor wouldn't be worth the time wrenching for me. By the look of it, once the old one is out, hot air gun and freezing the bearing would be the same as installing from the other side into stripped cases. I'm thinking that one might have to use spray cooling to cool the shaft also to maintain clearance while installing. The shaft and case interference are obviously factors which prevent the bearing from moving inward. I've installed a series of screws or run a bead to retain some transmission bearings in a housing which had the stop ridge broken out. It might even be find to MIG a bead or several segments into the aluminum after the bearing is reinstalled. Maybe load the bearing with spatter gel? The shaft isn't loaded radially so one wouldn't have to contend with side thrust while installing the bearing. Timing the shaft isn't a problem as the index is the same regardless. The weight would be still in place on the shaft and the sprocket indexes to the shaft, then the sprocket to the chain silver links. Not arguing with your points at all, just throwing out what's in my mind. I'm 66 and have been wrenching either full time professionally or part time/hobby since 1960 so 50 years is enough that it's not as much fun as used to be. Not that much is new although I do hate to give up on a challenge. Another factor is the personal interest and whether something is interesting enough to compensate for the stress involved in having to be on top of things 100%. I still do ABS brake modulators, mostly from Europe, alternators, fuel pumps and some other specialized component repairs which satisfy much need to wrench. Have you noticed that the technical interest seems to be dropping off on line? Seems much less than even a couple of years ago. Facebook is too chaotic and repeat, repeat, but may dilute the web group numbers enough that they are losing their way? Norm ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jeff Saline" To: normkel32@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2015-02-03 7:54:58 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Balancer shaft bearing failure 2013 On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 02:50:59 +0000 "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Bike is at my friend's shop so will drop by tomorrow to have a look at cylinder hand head. I'm glad not to be committed to the work. Talked with my brother-in-law who is a retired tech also and he said the same thing. He's not doing work for others any more because it's too much pressure and ....lazy?
-
Norm Keller
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:48 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
#ygrps-yiv-479202472 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-479202472cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-479202472 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-479202472cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-479202472 .ygrps-yiv-479202472plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-479202472 .ygrps-yiv-479202472plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-479202472 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-479202472 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-479202472 .ygrps-yiv-479202472plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-479202472 .ygrps-yiv-479202472plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} https://www.dropbox.com/s/hx6viqc2bttwlop/Balancer%20bearings.jpg?dl=0 The weld marks from the bearing turning on the balance shaft are visible inside the LH bearing. The short time misalignment damaged the RH bearing and shaft is also damaged so replacement of the LH bearing only would not have been suitable. Pieces of the bearing race and perhaps the cage went through some other bearings which also need doing. Here is a link to the folder of other photos:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/70l5l5mqptlumql/AAC0rah__d8MCVjLsD5g-ozMa?dl=0 Notice the later version piston (2013) which lacks the oil return groove and has only the (5) small oil return holes. Subject to greater expertise I continue to hold that this style piston is inferior to the older because it has less than 1/2 the oil return hole capacity. Notice the apparent rust on the RH main bearing. This bearing shows damage from either corrosion based spalling, foreign material or combination. The roller main bearing appears to be in usable condition. Lots more to report but tired now.
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Norm Keller
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:48 am
balancer shaft bearing failure 2013
Did anyone notice the red "rust" on the right main bearing? It's toast because the ball races are spalling. We can't decide whether it's brinneling from pieces or spalling due to corrosion but rough regardless and needs changing.
I'm trying to remember for sure but thought the earlier connecting rods had only one lube hole for the wrist pin. Can someone confirm whether one hole or two like the later ones?
This engine has some odd wear to the connecting rod pin hole where there is some rolling up of metal although the pin is good. I think the rod will be fine with a polish. Cam journals and bearing surfaces are in beautiful condition so don't think the engine has been run low on oil at any point. The piston has scuff areas on both thrust and intake sides which look like it was on the verge of seizure at some point. The cylinder has some scuffing and heavy burnishing but should be OK with a honing and new rings. I still don't like that new style piston because of the very narrow oil ring and small oil return hole capacity. If it were mine and could get new rings for the earlier piston, I'd be sticking one of those in that cylinder with maybe a piston knurl.
Some pieces of the bearing race went through the oil pump which did some damage to the impellors so will need a kit but given the KLR over capacity, the pump housing will be fine.
I stole some bench space and did a taper and out of round on the cylinder off and torqued with nuts and washer stack. Will post the numbers later.
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