the $800 klr for sale (amusement)

[Stu Mitchell]

Your other question was about other upgrades Hmmm - ?? What year is your KLR? Check out http://www.KLR650.net And http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html#top for starters Not trying to dodge the question it s just that it can be a tough question And many have already done a better job answering than I am qualified to at this point in my KLR career. My thoughts though - Outside of the Doo-Hickey and the Thermo Bob most upgrades begin to fall into personal preference and design improvements, not critical fail kinda stuff. Even the Thermo Bob is not as critical as the Doo-Hickey, but it is still a very good idea. And because of the religious fervor of KLR owners, there are a lot of opinions out there some better than others. For example - some like to add the aftermarket front brakes I ll probably do a rear shock before front brakes . Just preference I m interested to see how she does with a load going downhill on a service road TO ME too much grab will only lock up the fronts too easily but I may need the extra grab in those circumstances. I don t ride hard enough to need it for the street though. But I still may end up with them . This is just how I have done mine for starters All fluids engine, fork, brake / spark plug changed when I got her home DooHickey upgrade (Good thing the spring had broken off) Stator Upgrade - 280w SS Brake Lines 12 year old brake lines are garbage HIR Headlight mo light, mo safe, mo visibility Strobe Tail light mo light, mo safe, mo visibility Corbin flat seat (came w/bike) more comfort Stiiffer Front Springs not progressive straight rate with heavier fork oil we ll see, jury is still out but definitely an improvement Lowering Links I wasn t comfortable straddling 400 pounds between my legs on my tip-toes now I can flat foot just fine. SubFrame Bolt upgrade Hooyaaa! HT Bash plate and crash bars w/Wolfman soft panniers Rear Brake Reservoir cover plate Next Thermo-Bob (have it ready to go on) Aftermarket Dash and some intelligence added sure I can read a map and a compass, but life is easier with a GPS as primary nav Then - MAYBE Carb tricks but mine starts and runs so well right now Don t fix what ain t broke Honestly, biggest single outlay of money went for the bash and crash protection . Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eddie]

All hail Stu who joined the subframe bolt expletive club! All hail Stu! =) -eddie (been there, cursed that)

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] cloudnine233@... [b]To:[/b] dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:43 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant   Hey all, No one may care that I finally finished the upper sub-frame repair.. But as they say confession is good for the soul.. Put this in that category - I am going out on a limb here, but I suspect this is a pretty salty crowd.. But, in the performance of drilling out the broken off bolt and the broken off extractor, coupled with the numerous broken bits (@$$ per bit), I used every expletive I knew and some I didn't know and some sounds were akin to Klingon mating calls. But I finally was able to drill though. Because I had to approach the backside of the broken off bolts, the though hole was slightly askew. (slightly??). So I overdrilled it straight and inserted a piece of aluminum tubing in as a new bushing. Then I drilled out the inside of the bushing to the correct ID for the through-bolt. Remember this thread stated back on 12/22. So even thought the story is told in a few lines, it doesn't adequately reflect the time actually spent in the garage, time spent going to get more bits, etc. After I was about half way into the project, someone suggested I should have pictures for posterity. Well, by then it would have been like walking in to a movie that was half over, and I really am glad that there is not photographic evidence of my misbehavior. So the simple conclusion is - again spoken as a newcomer to this elite bastion of KLR creed. DO IT - It's a cheap fix - for under $30.00 one can replace the entire though bolt - or at LEAST upgrade to harder bolts for $10.00 +/-. DO IT - I strongly suggest this - simply because if one waits until after one of those puppies fails - it's no fun. As Eagle Mike says -you may lose your religion. Circumstances - The DPO was not a necessarily big man - and he broke the bolt off - the bike has less than 7k miles - so it's not age. Talking with Eagle Mike (where I got my kit which includes bolts, main drill bits - good ones), he said this is a known failure point for these bikes.. Ergo - that's why he makes the reinforcement kits. So, yeah, if all I had needed to do was drill for a larger though bolt, I probably would have been done in one day - no muss ,no fuss. But with the added excitement of the broken off parts - more drill bits, bushings, cussing, more drilling, more bits, more cussing.. Just sayin'.. 2002 KLR 650 - Work in Progress DooHickey upgrade Stator Upgrade - 280w SS Brake Lines HIR Headlight Strobe Tail light Corbin flat seat (came w/bike) Lowering Links SubFrame Bolt upgrade HT Bash plate and crash bars w/Wolfman soft panniers Thermo-Bob next Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Martin Earl]

HI Stu.I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight.Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE:Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests.(yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak partsThe do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug.Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile.Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as:If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts:I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure.2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything...ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR.I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot!My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ:If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around.118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh.

On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[Paul Whatley]

I could probably find this in the FAQ, but for the sake of time, I guess I will ask anyway and beg forgiveness later. Where are the sub-frame bolts on a Gen I and what is the easiest way to check them?   Paul [b]From:[/b] Martin Earl [b]To:[/b] Stu Mitchell [b]Cc:[/b] itsdfoot@...; DSN KLR650 dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:42 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant   HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades.   IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!)  It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike.  Walter:  You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point.  If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot.  Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly.  smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle:  ride the bike and see what needs to improve.  I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade.  Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006:  I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh.  The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'.  = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts.  However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug.  That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit.  Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts .  ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock.  I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin.  38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh.

On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell cloudnine233@...> wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... =205808> and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc> Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues.  But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill.  I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling.  I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant  -  Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced?   That is what most of our upgrades are about  - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories  - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost.  Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does.  Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu   ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=21 ... 23Yahoo> Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join>     (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email:     DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com     DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:     http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/ut ... /div>

[RobertWichert]

Martin, Do you really think that the subframe bolts would break if they were tight? My "theory" is that if they are always tight, they will not break. Bolts are designed to be tight. As soon as they become loose, bending stress breaks them. I like this theory. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 12/29/2013 9:42 PM, Martin Earl wrote:

HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[RobertWichert]

I think the best answer is "under the seat". They hold the front frame to the back frame. They go "across" the bike, one from each side, into a sort of tube which is the frame. I believe they are Allen bolts and you can check them for tightness with a good Allen set. I forget the torque value. Tight is good. Tighten the shit out of them. Locktite them. Weld the damn things (not really). Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 12/30/2013 8:18 AM, Paul Whatley wrote:

I could probably find this in the FAQ, but for the sake of time, I guess I will ask anyway and beg forgiveness later. Where are the sub-frame bolts on a Gen I and what is the easiest way to check them? Paul [b]From:[/b] Martin Earl mjearl4@... [b]To:[/b] Stu Mitchell cloudnine233@... [b]Cc:[/b] itsdfoot@...; DSN KLR650 dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:42 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell cloudnine233@...> wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... =205808> and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc> Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=21 ... 23Yahoo> Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join> (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/ut ... />

[Martin Earl]

Hi Robert,I think you have a point; to a point. smile. When the KLR walter mitty's starts to ride like Robert, rev and others, the engineers at Mother Kawi crawl into the fetal position and cry for custard popsicles or Harleys. shrug. Judging by the size of some of my 'friends' who ride the KLR, it is shear non-sense to expect the bolts to survive. grin. even a tight bolt; especially if they want to fly the pig...and you know who you are! That said:I believe the upgrade to 8.8 bolts is a valid one; and use blue lock-tight as well. ~$4 at Fastenal.For those seeking the graduate degree in KLR farkle:Some guru's like the drill through...I have one (bought in a box of 'stuff') and have not installed it. shrug. But, I (as well as my brothers) all have the upgraded 8.8 subframe bolts our KLR's. revmaaatin.

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:02 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Martin, Do you really think that the subframe bolts would break if they were tight? My "theory" is that if they are always tight, they will not break. Bolts are designed to be tight. As soon as they become loose, bending stress breaks them. I like this theory. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/29/2013 9:42 PM, Martin Earl wrote: HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[RobertWichert]

Right! Yes! It was the drill-thru that I was questioning. 8.8 bolts are good stuff. Welding them may be a bit much. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 12/30/2013 9:21 AM, Martin Earl wrote:

Hi Robert, I think you have a point; to a point. smile. When the KLR walter mitty's starts to ride like Robert, rev and others, the engineers at Mother Kawi crawl into the fetal position and cry for custard popsicles or Harleys. shrug. Judging by the size of some of my 'friends' who ride the KLR, it is shear non-sense to expect the bolts to survive. grin. even a tight bolt; especially if they want to fly the pig...and you know who you are! That said: I believe the upgrade to 8.8 bolts is a valid one; and use blue lock-tight as well. ~$4 at Fastenal. For those seeking the graduate degree in KLR farkle: Some guru's like the drill through...I have one (bought in a box of 'stuff') and have not installed it. shrug. But, I (as well as my brothers) all have the upgraded 8.8 subframe bolts our KLR's. revmaaatin. On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:02 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Martin, Do you really think that the subframe bolts would break if they were tight? My "theory" is that if they are always tight, they will not break. Bolts are designed to be tight. As soon as they become loose, bending stress breaks them. I like this theory. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/29/2013 9:42 PM, Martin Earl wrote: HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[Martin Earl]

Si Robertson would say:It is important to remain color co-ordi-mated.If you have blue top bolts, you MUST have blue bottom bolts. grin. but to answer the question, I have never heard of a broken bottom bolt; the kit included 4 bolts, I replaced them all. Conversely, I never broke a top bolt either...shrug. must be because they were always tight? revmaaatin. with apologies to A & E

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Right! Yes! It was the drill-thru that I was questioning. 8.8 bolts are good stuff. Welding them may be a bit much. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/30/2013 9:21 AM, Martin Earl wrote: Hi Robert, I think you have a point; to a point. smile. When the KLR walter mitty's starts to ride like Robert, rev and others, the engineers at Mother Kawi crawl into the fetal position and cry for custard popsicles or Harleys. shrug. Judging by the size of some of my 'friends' who ride the KLR, it is shear non-sense to expect the bolts to survive. grin. even a tight bolt; especially if they want to fly the pig...and you know who you are! That said: I believe the upgrade to 8.8 bolts is a valid one; and use blue lock-tight as well. ~$4 at Fastenal. For those seeking the graduate degree in KLR farkle: Some guru's like the drill through...I have one (bought in a box of 'stuff') and have not installed it. shrug. But, I (as well as my brothers) all have the upgraded 8.8 subframe bolts our KLR's. revmaaatin. On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:02 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Martin, Do you really think that the subframe bolts would break if they were tight? My "theory" is that if they are always tight, they will not break. Bolts are designed to be tight. As soon as they become loose, bending stress breaks them. I like this theory. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/29/2013 9:42 PM, Martin Earl wrote: HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction. NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades. IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!) It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions. With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA! The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter: You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot. Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug. That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly. smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle: ride the bike and see what needs to improve. I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade. Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing. IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006: I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh. The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'. = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection, Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug. That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit. Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts . ymmv. A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock. I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate. revmaaatin. 38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues. But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill. I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling. I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant - Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced? That is what most of our upgrades are about - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost. Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does. Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[Fred Hink]

To be really color-correct why not use plated bolts like the rest of your machine?   Black bolts will be rusted before you get them mounted.  Blue bolts will corrode pretty soon afterwards.  Zinc plated should stay nice and shiny for a long time.   I sell 12.8 zinc plated bolts in my kits.  http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/images/ht_subframe.jpg   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] mjearl4@... [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, December 30, 2013 10:41 AM [b]To:[/b] robert@... [b]Cc:[/b] cloudnine233@... ; itsdfoot@... ; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant    

Si Robertson would say: It is important to remain color co-ordi-mated. If you have blue top bolts, you MUST have blue bottom bolts. grin.   but to answer the question, I have never heard of a broken bottom bolt; the kit included 4 bolts, I replaced them all. Conversely, I never broke a top bolt either...shrug.  must be because they were always tight?   revmaaatin. with apologies to A & E On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM, RobertWichert wrote:

Right!  Yes!  It was the drill-thru that I was questioning.  8.8 bolts are good stuff. Welding them may be a bit much. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/30/2013 9:21 AM, Martin Earl wrote: Hi Robert, I think you have a point; to a point. smile.   When the KLR walter mitty's starts to ride like Robert, rev and others, the engineers at Mother Kawi crawl into the fetal position and cry for custard popsicles or Harleys. shrug.   Judging by the size of some of my 'friends' who ride the KLR, it is shear non-sense to expect the bolts to survive. grin.  even a tight bolt; especially if they want to fly the pig...and you know who you are! That said: I believe the upgrade to 8.8 bolts is a valid one; and use blue lock-tight as well.  ~$4 at Fastenal. For those seeking the graduate degree in KLR farkle: Some guru's like the drill through...I have one (bought in a box of 'stuff') and have not installed it. shrug.   But, I (as well as my brothers) all have the upgraded 8.8 subframe bolts our KLR's.     revmaaatin. On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:02 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Martin, Do you really think that the subframe bolts would break if they were tight?  My "theory" is that if they are always tight, they will not break.  Bolts are designed to be tight.  As soon as they become loose, bending stress breaks them. I like this theory.  Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 12/29/2013 9:42 PM, Martin Earl wrote:   HI Stu. I have followed your adventure from the first post, and the only way it could be more miserable is if you were doing it outside, 40F under a streetlight. Oh, do I feel your pain. from that extraction.   NOTE: Following comments are especially for new readers and new owners, and for those who have delayed doing some upgrades.    IRT to the PO shearing the bolt, Kawi-engineers...and other comments from your rant/journey. The best way to avoid much (KLR650) pain is to read the FAQ.s and then read them again, and then DO as the FAQ suggests. (yeah, I see the bolts were sheared when you got the bike...just saying!)  It is to bad the previous owner did not follow the FAQ and its suggestions.   With the FAQ, there are numerous 'suggestions' to fix dynamically weak points of the KLR; sadly it is not just a Kawi problem. Suzi and BMVu have there share of problems, not to mention HONDA!   The engineers did not 'finish' the bike KLR650 to be an adventure bike, rather a Walter Mitty adventure bike. Walter:  You got dreams, this motorbike is (only) the entry point. If you want to campaign this bike, certain systems must be hardened or you/me/us will be replacing the parts and THEN hardening the weak parts The do-hickey comes to mind; lever protectors and proper foot pegs (w/ 8.8 bolts) also come to mind. How about a magnetic drain plug; and metal skid pan because I ride where there are ROCKS-A lot.  Most people don't need a metal skid plate. shrug. Decide how much you want to risk...I have shark fins to protect the rear brake on two bikes...probably over kill. grin. Brake billet, and rear master cylinder protector...I bought, maybe not necessary. shrug.   That said, there is a lot of 'farkle' out there for sale that probably is not necessary...not that I bought any of it. cough. If you want to know what is necessary, look at some USMC scout bike photo's and act accordingly.  smile. Most pertinent advice for adding farkle:  ride the bike and see what needs to improve.  I needed barbacks and a seat upgrade.  Others get along just fine without either. shrug. Such as: If you ride when it is cold, and your hands get cold, upgrade to heated grips; that sort of thing.   IRT to the sub frame bolts: I replaced the sub frame bolts in all three of my KLR650's almost immediately with the upgrade kit; nary a one was any problem thereafter. Remember, (any) upgrades are NOT a 100% cure-all, but a significant preventative measure. 2006:  I did $30K bodily damage to my body while napping in a rut and the deputy-sheriff was disappointed that the bike had no damage. sigh.  The upgrades protected everything... ER doc said I was the 'best dressed ER motorcycle customer ever'.  = good riding gear is not a guarantee of complete protection,   Hardening the KLR, =IMHO: I DO NOT ride my KLR650 as a MX bike but at the limits of my own ability AND the design limits of the improved/hardened KLR. I rarely 'fly' the bike; that said, I have never broken off any sub frame bolts. However, I replace foot peg bolts with some regularity. shrug.  That comes from standing on the pegs a lot! My present 'favorite' KLR was bought at 20K smiles, I logged 37K more on it and had the upgraded sub frame bolts out last week while installing the 685 kit.  Other than surface corrosion on the lower two bolts, not the slightest indication of thread compression or shearing on any if the four bolts .  ymmv.   A side note from the FAQ: If any of you new owners have not moved your license plate up, do so; it is not 'if' it will disappear, but when...and that will (most likely) be the first time you fully compress the rear shock.  I bend the top 1.5 inch of the plate at about 30degrees to stuff it up under the inner fender and use the lic-plate bottom holes to mount the plate.   revmaaatin.  38 miles on Thursday; 70 miles on Friday doing the 685 break-in. big "Black Hills' smiles all around. 118 farkle/maint days till full time riding season. sigh. On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Stu Mitchell wrote: Hey, Here is where I got my guidance http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205808 and here is where I got the kit http://www.eaglemike.com/main.sc Home of the Doo-Hickey and other handy bits and experience . I ll try to help answer any questions if you run into any issues.  But, honestly, if you don t have to go though getting a broken bolt/extractor drilled out, it is not a bad project at all. Be very careful about metal filings from the drill.  I used my automotive dropped nut and bolt getter magnet on a stick to help control and collect the filings. But you should still tape , wrap, and surgically cover the bike while drilling.  I even flipped duct tape over so I had the sticky side up to help catch filings like fly-paper. The best cutting oil I found was in the plumbing department at Homeless Despots Good luck - good choice for good peace of mind Editorial rant  -  Rhetorical: So why in the world did Kawasaki use bolts/designs that any freshman engineer in a community college would see are under-specced?   That is what most of our upgrades are about  - whether it s the Doo-Hickey or the sub-frame bolts, to foot peg bolts or even the available wattage for running accessories  - like lights, maybe GPS not even getting to heated accoutrements or radios. Sure, I enjoy wrenching, but I like to be able to pick my battles. But the other side is, I do believe that when all these things are done there aren t any bikes are substantially better on the road or the trail regardless of cost.  Some may do one or the other a little better, but not do all of them as well all of the time (borrowed from PT Barnum) as a KLR does.  Geez, I sound like an ad . So, if everything (life) comes together then I m hoping to take my ol gal out for some real rides and that s when all of this will have been worth it. Shellon & Stu   ~~~~~/)~~~~~ "Life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain From: itsdfoot@... [mailto:itsdfoot@...] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:52 PM To: cloudnine233@... Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: changed to upper subframe bolt rant Being a new KLR owner , I wish you did take some pictures so that we newbies would know we're to look, I wish to do this replacement for piece of mind, while the weather is freezing.but Don,t know where to start. Are there any other upgrades one should know about. Thanks --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join     (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email:     DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com     DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:     http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/