did you see this? - hey dummies nklr

[Andy Walling]

This was probably most traumatizing to the cage passengers... Scary imagining a child forced to be involved in such violent idiocy. -Andy

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Stephen Watson wrote: [u][/u] Seriously? The one guy break checked him and then he was surrounded. No time no place was this the cage drivers fault. Dude was scared for himself, wife and child. Are you really condoning that it is okay for people on bikes to break the law by forcefully stopping traffic to do a trick? [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert [b]To:[/b] Mike Frey [b]Cc:[/b] List KLR DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 2, 2013 6:17 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this? This gives a good explanation... They were trying to stop traffic so somebody could pull a trick. Makes sense. Getting hit by the Rover would piss me off good. Getting run over, well, that is inexcusable. He should have just stopped. Idiot. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/30/land-rover-driver-caught-on-video-mowing-down-nyc-motorcyclists/ Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 10/2/2013 3:34 PM, Mike Frey wrote: > He got beat up pretty good, was treated for lacerations. I saw the news > report long before I saw the video. It appears to be a KLR rider who > first bashed in the window when the SUV driver finally came to a stop. > > On youtube, the comments are full of anti-bike comments, how they wish > that the bikers had been shot, etc. > > I certainly don't side with the apparent gang mentality that probably > took place, or the events that unfolded. That said, I think there is a > part of the story that has not yet been reported: something happened > before all of the mayhem. We don't know. > > A motorcyclist is highly vulnerable to road rage from any 4 wheeled > vehicle. Therefore, I never express any anger towards a driver who > pulled out in front of me, shook his fist at me, whatever. I ride as if > all cars and trucks are out to get me. If an aggressive driver is behind > me, I am going to do my best to get out of the way, get behind them, or > find another road. > > Mike "never wave your middle finger at a car" Frey > > On 10/2/2013 3:26 PM, Andy Walling wrote: >> I wonder what happened after the video stopped, I cant imagine it >> turned out well for the rover, he looked pretty trapped. >> >> -Andy >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:50 AM, James W. Flower > > wrote: >> >> Makes me ashamed to ride. The clip starts with the gang blocking >> the Rover in for no known reason, then one of them pulling in >> front and stopping. I'd do exactly what the Rover did (drive >> through or over as many bikers as I had to to escape). >> Too bad guns are practically outlawed in NY; the Rover driver >> could have used one, and s/he'd have had the right to, imho. >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com > Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com/ Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com/ List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[James W. Flower]

Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.

[RobertWichert]

Maybe if somebody pulled a gun.  I don't run over people because they are in my way. Inexcusable. Idiot. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/2/2013 5:11 PM, jim reinhart wrote:

  I doubt his reaction was malicious in intent. I bet he was thinking about his wife and child. I can see myself gunning the engine to get out of a pretty perilous situation.

[RobertWichert]

It was to do a trick.  He should have just stopped. He would have been delayed a bit (BFD) and nobody would have been paralyzed. Makes sense to me. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/2/2013 5:17 PM, Stephen Watson wrote:

  Seriously? The one guy break checked him and then he was surrounded. No time no place was this the cage drivers fault. Dude was scared for himself, wife and child. Are you really condoning that it is okay for people on bikes to break the law by forcefully stopping traffic to do a trick?   [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert robert@... [b]To:[/b] Mike Frey mike21b@... [b]Cc:[/b] List KLR DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 2, 2013 6:17 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this? This gives a good explanation... They were trying to stop traffic so somebody could pull a trick.  Makes sense.  Getting hit by the Rover would piss me off good.  Getting run over, well, that is inexcusable.  He should have just stopped. Idiot. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/30/land-rover-driver-caught-on-video-mowing-down-nyc-motorcyclists/ Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 10/2/2013 3:34 PM, Mike Frey wrote: > He got beat up pretty good, was treated for lacerations. I saw the news > report long before I saw the video. It appears to be a KLR rider who > first bashed in the window when the SUV driver finally came to a stop. > > On youtube, the comments are full of anti-bike comments, how they wish > that the bikers had been shot, etc. > > I certainly don't side with the apparent gang mentality that probably > took place, or the events that unfolded. That said, I think there is a > part of the story that has not yet been reported: something happened > before all of the mayhem. We don't know. > > A motorcyclist is highly vulnerable to road rage from any 4 wheeled > vehicle. Therefore, I never express any anger towards a driver who > pulled out in front of me, shook his fist at me, whatever. I ride as if > all cars and trucks are out to get me. If an aggressive driver is behind > me, I am going to do my best to get out of the way, get behind them, or > find another road. > > Mike "never wave your middle finger at a car" Frey > > On 10/2/2013 3:26 PM, Andy Walling wrote: >> I wonder what happened after the video stopped, I cant imagine it >> turned out well for the rover, he looked pretty trapped. >> >> -Andy >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:50 AM, James W. Flower > > wrote: >> >>      Makes me ashamed to ride. The clip starts with the gang blocking >>      the Rover in for no known reason, then one of them pulling in >>      front and stopping. I'd do exactly what the Rover did (drive >>      through or over as many bikers as I had to to escape). >>      Too bad guns are practically outlawed in NY; the Rover driver >>      could have used one, and s/he'd have had the right to, imho. >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com > Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com/ Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com/ List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Members Map https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/ Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/join     (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email:     DSN_KLR650-digest@yahoogroups.com     DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

[RobertWichert]

If he would have just stopped in the first place, it would have never happened. That's my point. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/2/2013 5:27 PM, James W. Flower wrote:

  Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.

[Stephen Watson]

He should not have had to stop if they were not breaking the law to do a stupid trick. [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert [b]To:[/b] James W. Flower [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 2, 2013 7:57 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this?   If he would have just stopped in the first place, it would have never happened. That's my point. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/2/2013 5:27 PM, James W. Flower wrote:

  Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.

[John Littel]

He should not have had to stop if they were not breaking the law to do a stupid trick. [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert [b]To:[/b] James W. Flower [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 2, 2013 7:57 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this?   If he would have just stopped in the first place, it would have never happened. That's my point. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 10/2/2013 5:27 PM, James W. Flower wrote:

  Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.

[Desert Datsuns]

Sooo your saying it's ok to act like an idiot, close down the road, so they can do tricks? The drift crowd seems to think it's also ok in California. If you ride like an a-hole, you get what's coming to you. I don't think anyone should get paralyzed either, BUT, he already had his license suspended for this kind of behavior in one state, and continued to ride recklessly in another, you can't say he didn't have it coming. I've been riding for 20+ years, both on and off road. I'll support riders rights and defend them as much as I can. But it's stupid people like this that give the rest of us a bad rap. Had they not been acting like this nobody got hurt. You can't blame the SUV driver for something the bikers started. Ryan RobertWichert wrote:

> > > It was to do a trick. He should have just stopped. > > He would have been delayed a bit (BFD) and nobody would have been paralyzed. > > > Makes sense to me. > > > > Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > =============================================== > > On 10/2/2013 5:17 PM, Stephen Watson wrote: >> >> Seriously? The one guy break checked him and then he was surrounded. >> No time no place was this the cage drivers fault. Dude was scared for >> himself, wife and child. Are you really condoning that it is okay for >> people on bikes to break the law by forcefully stopping traffic to do >> a trick? >> >> *From:* RobertWichert >> *To:* Mike Frey >> *Cc:* List KLR DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 2, 2013 6:17 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this? >> >> This gives a good explanation... They were trying to stop traffic so >> somebody could pull a trick. Makes sense. Getting hit by the Rover >> would piss me off good. Getting run over, well, that is inexcusable. >> He should have just stopped. >> >> Idiot. >> >> http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/30/land-rover-driver-caught-on-video-mowing-down-nyc-motorcyclists/ >> >> >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> =============================================== >> >> On 10/2/2013 3:34 PM, Mike Frey wrote: >> > He got beat up pretty good, was treated for lacerations. I saw the news >> > report long before I saw the video. It appears to be a KLR rider who >> > first bashed in the window when the SUV driver finally came to a stop. >> > >> > On youtube, the comments are full of anti-bike comments, how they wish >> > that the bikers had been shot, etc. >> > >> > I certainly don't side with the apparent gang mentality that probably >> > took place, or the events that unfolded. That said, I think there is a >> > part of the story that has not yet been reported: something happened >> > before all of the mayhem. We don't know. >> > >> > A motorcyclist is highly vulnerable to road rage from any 4 wheeled >> > vehicle. Therefore, I never express any anger towards a driver who >> > pulled out in front of me, shook his fist at me, whatever. I ride as if >> > all cars and trucks are out to get me. If an aggressive driver is behind >> > me, I am going to do my best to get out of the way, get behind them, or >> > find another road. >> > >> > Mike "never wave your middle finger at a car" Frey >> > >> > On 10/2/2013 3:26 PM, Andy Walling wrote: >> >> I wonder what happened after the video stopped, I cant imagine it >> >> turned out well for the rover, he looked pretty trapped. >> >> >> >> -Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:50 AM, James W. Flower >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Makes me ashamed to ride. The clip starts with the gang blocking >> >> the Rover in for no known reason, then one of them pulling in >> >> front and stopping. I'd do exactly what the Rover did (drive >> >> through or over as many bikers as I had to to escape). >> >> Too bad guns are practically outlawed in NY; the Rover driver >> >> could have used one, and s/he'd have had the right to, imho. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com >> > Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com >> > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> > Members Map >> https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo >> https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo>! >> Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com/ >> Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com/ >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Members Map >> https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo >> https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212558560286766214899.0004d0fa9f1732283bb6f&msa=0&ll=38.522384,-109.489746&spn=6.831383,9.624023Yahoo>! >> Groups Links >> >> >> DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >> DSN_KLR650-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com> >> >> >> >> > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6218 - Release Date: 10/02/13 >

[James W. Flower]

But he did stop.  You can see it in the video.  A rider pulls in front of him and stops short, he bumps the rider, all the riders stop, many of them in the roadway in front of him.  He was trapped, and he didn't know why.  Ask yourself: why would someone deliberately pull right in front of you and then stop so short you had to hit them, if that person meant you well?  One other cage manages to get around the riders to the right and move on before he makes his move.  It's impossible to tell whether he could have taken the same path, but there's no evidence that he deliberately hit anyone.   I guess it's considered Christian to turn the other cheek, give in to the bully.  Though I'm not a Christian I still opt for non-violence whenever possible.  But it isn't the driver who was violent here.  He was trying to get out of a threatening situation, and get his family out of it too.

On Oct 2, 2013, at 5:57 PM, RobertWichert wrote: If he would have just stopped in the first place, it would have never happened. That's my point. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 10/2/2013 5:27 PM, James W. Flower wrote:   Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.

[James W. Flower]

I agree, Stephen. On Oct 2, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Stephen Watson wrote:

He should not have had to stop if they were not breaking the law to do a stupid trick. [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert [b]To:[/b] James W. Flower [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 2, 2013 7:57 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Did you see this?   If he would have just stopped in the first place, it would have never happened. That's my point. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 10/2/2013 5:27 PM, James W. Flower wrote:   Must respectfully disagree, Robert. In legal terms, it's "reasonably foreseeable" that when you and a couple dozen of your pals illegally and inexplicably surround a man in his car with his family, stop him dead on an open highway, block his escape in all directions, then get off your bikes and approach his vehicle, he will believe you mean him harm. It is reasonably foreseeable that he will try to escape, and that's what he did. If you've put your bike or your body on the roadway in front of him, you've "assumed the risk" that his escape will harm you, EVEN if your intentions are not in fact malicious. And given that these riders had already proven themselves willing to commit several crimes, from reckless driving to false imprisonment, I'm being charitable, especially in light of their chasing down the driver and beating him up. If they thought they had a legitimate beef against him, they should have called the police. But of course, then they would have had to explain how it all started.