fs: 2006 klr excellent condition dc area

[Bogdan Swider]

That's interesting, Jeff. What particular kind of service is omitted or done incorrectly that allows you to discern that it's not done/done by owners and not technicians ? As Ron stated, it seems to a guy that doesn't own a Harley that they don't require much. No valves to adjust and fuel injection. I did meet Harley guys that changed their exhausts without doing anything to the intake. Also, I'll admit that I don't take for granted that motorcycle techs are knowledgeable or competent or that they're allowed to take the time necessary. Bogdan, curious in Colorado There is not much difference between a Harley and a KLR. They both require some maintenance and the servicing must be done correctly to be effective. I, and the techs can usually tell in a couple of seconds of touching a bike if the any servicing has been done to it and if so by a trained technician or by the owner. The bikes that are serviced regularly and correctly are a real pleasure to ride. The ones that don't get service or get serviced incorrectly go from unpleasant to awful to ride. I think the KLR would be the same if I rode as many of them as I do Harleys. Don't service the KLR or service it improperly and it would not be a fun/good ride. Service it well and it's a hoot. There is more to maintaining a piece of machinery properly than many people understand. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . __________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/504e989f8de05189f62fast03vuc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ron criswell]

Me too Bogdan, I wonder what it is that Harley requires? They seem pretty simple? Criswell Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Bogdan Swider wrote: > That's interesting, Jeff. What particular kind of service is omitted or done incorrectly that allows you to discern that it's not done/done by owners and not technicians ? As Ron stated, it seems to a guy that doesn't own a Harley that they don't require much. No valves to adjust and fuel injection. I did meet Harley guys that changed their exhausts without doing anything to the intake. Also, I'll admit that I don't take for granted that motorcycle techs are knowledgeable or competent or that they're allowed to take the time necessary. > > Bogdan, curious in Colorado > > There is not much difference between a Harley and a KLR. They both > require some maintenance and the servicing must be done correctly to be > effective. I, and the techs can usually tell in a couple of seconds of > touching a bike if the any servicing has been done to it and if so by a > trained technician or by the owner. The bikes that are serviced > regularly and correctly are a real pleasure to ride. The ones that don't > get service or get serviced incorrectly go from unpleasant to awful to > ride. > > I think the KLR would be the same if I rode as many of them as I do > Harleys. Don't service the KLR or service it improperly and it would not > be a fun/good ride. Service it well and it's a hoot. > > There is more to maintaining a piece of machinery properly than many > people understand. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 > > . > . > __________________________________________________________ > Woman is 53 But Looks 25 > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/504e989f8de05189f62fast03vuc > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com > Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/app/peoplemap/view/map > Group Apps: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/grouplets/subscriptionsYahoo! Groups Links > > >

[Jeff Saline]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:41:30 -0500 Ron Criswell writes:

> Me too Bogdan, I wonder what it is that Harley requires? They seem > pretty simple? > > Criswell > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Bogdan Swider > wrote: > > > That's interesting, Jeff. What particular kind of service is > omitted or done incorrectly that allows you to discern that it's not > done/done by owners and not technicians ? As Ron stated, it seems to > a guy that doesn't own a Harley that they don't require much. No > valves to adjust and fuel injection. I did meet Harley guys that > changed their exhausts without doing anything to the intake. Also, > I'll admit that I don't take for granted that motorcycle techs are > knowledgeable or competent or that they're allowed to take the time > necessary. > > > > Bogdan, curious in Colorado

<><><><><> <><><><><> Bogdan, Criswell, I still don't know what the O A S thread is about but I guess it's now about maintenance. : ) Some of the first indications to me as a test rider that a bike has "issues" with improper or lack of maintenance include but aren't limited to... -clutch levers that are very hard to pull and or are not adjusted correctly (engagement point and freeplay). -throttles with excessive movement (electronic throttles not included in this area) and/or sticking. -brakes that pulse (usually caused by a bent brake rotor). -handle bars that are not tight in the risers or risers that are worn/loose. -wiring improperly routed or "home grown" wiring like small wires carrying large loads and no fuses to protect the wiring. -drivebelts that chirp (easily stopped with proper maintenance) Those are very easy to detect and also to correct if done by someone that is well trained in the maintenance procedures. Some issue I've personally seen that were caused by improper maintenance include... -engines "sumping" which is not removing the oil from the crankcase. Sometimes it's caused by an oil pump failure (usually the oil pump fails because of poor maintenance of the cam chain tensioners) but I've also seen it caused by someone removing the crankcase drain and then inserting it too far into the case when they figure out they shouldn't have removed it in the first place. Inserting the plug a bit too deep blocks the drain hole to the oil pump return side. Since the oil pump can't remove the oil the crankcase fills up and the engine power is significantly reduced. -engines overfilled with oil and then blowing out the breathers into the air filter. -cam chain tensioners wearing out (normal condition) and not being identified that they need to be replaced. A trained technician knows the sound and I also have identified lots of like issues during test rides. Often when the cam chain tensioners are let go too long they destroy the oil pump as a minimum. -last month a guy rode from Texas to South Dakota with no oil in his primary drive. -complaints of wobbling and then finding all the spokes on both wheels loose over 2 turns each. -handling complaints resulting from 15psi in the tires. -drive belts so loose they are ripping teeth off the belt. None of the maintenance on a Harley or KLR is super high tech. On Harleys a computer is needed for some maintenance when messing with fuel injection for example. Computers are also used to monitor sensor data. Some issues are so common the symptoms alone are enough for a tech familiar with the issues to know what sensor is failing. I identified two sensors that were failing during test rides during the Sturgis rally. Thirty minutes later the bikes were fixed. For someone not familiar with the issues it could have been many hours of guessing what was wrong and replacing parts until it worked. Just like with the KLR you can ride one and tell in an instant that it's not being properly maintained. Or conversely you can tell it is well maintained. It's not that the owner isn't trying but they haven't the skills to do the work properly or don't even realize it should be done at all. I'd be curious to hear on list about how many KLR folks actually remove clutch and front brake levers, clean them and then lube the pivots and lube the clutch cable. Then also clean and lube the barrel at the engine side of the clutch cable. If you do that do you also clean and lube the throttle mechanism and cables? How many KLR owners actually properly adjust the clutch and throttle cables? Those are points I've learned are very important for smooth operation and long life of the components involved. Hope this isn't sounding like I'm defending Harleys or trying to make them sound more complicated than they are. I just see this everyday I work and understand a guy wanting to do good maintenance and actually doing good maintenance are two very different things. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/504fee2d7636f6e2d208ast03vuc

[zoot]

Thanks for the question and response. Your list of commonly observed maintenance misses reminds me that complacency is my enemy. I've been know to be curious about low rpm surging as a carburetor when in fact is was a worn sprocket and chain. Todd From: Jeff Saline Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:02 PM To: roncriswell2@... Cc: bSwider@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: O A S On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:41:30 -0500 Ron Criswell writes:

> Me too Bogdan, I wonder what it is that Harley requires? They seem > pretty simple? > > Criswell > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Bogdan Swider > wrote: > > > That's interesting, Jeff. What particular kind of service is > omitted or done incorrectly that allows you to discern that it's not > done/done by owners and not technicians ? As Ron stated, it seems to > a guy that doesn't own a Harley that they don't require much. No > valves to adjust and fuel injection. I did meet Harley guys that > changed their exhausts without doing anything to the intake. Also, > I'll admit that I don't take for granted that motorcycle techs are > knowledgeable or competent or that they're allowed to take the time > necessary. > > > > Bogdan, curious in Colorado

<><><><><> <><><><><> Bogdan, Criswell, I still don't know what the O A S thread is about but I guess it's now about maintenance. : ) Some of the first indications to me as a test rider that a bike has "issues" with improper or lack of maintenance include but aren't limited to... -clutch levers that are very hard to pull and or are not adjusted correctly (engagement point and freeplay). -throttles with excessive movement (electronic throttles not included in this area) and/or sticking. -brakes that pulse (usually caused by a bent brake rotor). -handle bars that are not tight in the risers or risers that are worn/loose. -wiring improperly routed or "home grown" wiring like small wires carrying large loads and no fuses to protect the wiring. -drivebelts that chirp (easily stopped with proper maintenance) Those are very easy to detect and also to correct if done by someone that is well trained in the maintenance procedures. Some issue I've personally seen that were caused by improper maintenance include... -engines "sumping" which is not removing the oil from the crankcase. Sometimes it's caused by an oil pump failure (usually the oil pump fails because of poor maintenance of the cam chain tensioners) but I've also seen it caused by someone removing the crankcase drain and then inserting it too far into the case when they figure out they shouldn't have removed it in the first place. Inserting the plug a bit too deep blocks the drain hole to the oil pump return side. Since the oil pump can't remove the oil the crankcase fills up and the engine power is significantly reduced. -engines overfilled with oil and then blowing out the breathers into the air filter. -cam chain tensioners wearing out (normal condition) and not being identified that they need to be replaced. A trained technician knows the sound and I also have identified lots of like issues during test rides. Often when the cam chain tensioners are let go too long they destroy the oil pump as a minimum. -last month a guy rode from Texas to South Dakota with no oil in his primary drive. -complaints of wobbling and then finding all the spokes on both wheels loose over 2 turns each. -handling complaints resulting from 15psi in the tires. -drive belts so loose they are ripping teeth off the belt. None of the maintenance on a Harley or KLR is super high tech. On Harleys a computer is needed for some maintenance when messing with fuel injection for example. Computers are also used to monitor sensor data. Some issues are so common the symptoms alone are enough for a tech familiar with the issues to know what sensor is failing. I identified two sensors that were failing during test rides during the Sturgis rally. Thirty minutes later the bikes were fixed. For someone not familiar with the issues it could have been many hours of guessing what was wrong and replacing parts until it worked. Just like with the KLR you can ride one and tell in an instant that it's not being properly maintained. Or conversely you can tell it is well maintained. It's not that the owner isn't trying but they haven't the skills to do the work properly or don't even realize it should be done at all. I'd be curious to hear on list about how many KLR folks actually remove clutch and front brake levers, clean them and then lube the pivots and lube the clutch cable. Then also clean and lube the barrel at the engine side of the clutch cable. If you do that do you also clean and lube the throttle mechanism and cables? How many KLR owners actually properly adjust the clutch and throttle cables? Those are points I've learned are very important for smooth operation and long life of the components involved. Hope this isn't sounding like I'm defending Harleys or trying to make them sound more complicated than they are. I just see this everyday I work and understand a guy wanting to do good maintenance and actually doing good maintenance are two very different things. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . __________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/504fee2d7636f6e2d208ast03vuc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[achesley43@ymail.com]

, i know of a few die-hard hardley riders that have been riding 30 or so years that still carry the tools they think they will need -- and many know how to use them. now, the NEW gen hardley riders, yeah they have the BMW tool kit -- you know their credit card and AAA card (or whatever the moto-equivalent is). and that's exactly why harley has done so well and persevered. they targeted a new market of riders that they could make money on.

>

Very true. I remember so well, the infamous steel gas line that all Harley's had. It always broke the ferrule at night, in the rain, and was cold. We all carried "Church Keys" to wedge them out and reattach to get home or to a service station with stuff to fix them. Stop and begged master links and chain from farmers as their combines of the day used #50 chain also. Course, the BSAs , Matchboxes, Trumpets, and others of the day were not that much mo betta either. You had to be a good mechanic to ride much in the '50's '60's.

[ron criswell]

I had a BSA 250 with the same alloy tank the Victor had. It was pre Victor. It would literally unscrew itself riding along. I sold the BSA when the spark plug blew out and hit me in the leg. I was not a very good wrencher back then. My creative wrenching helped destroy my brand new Vespa after a year and a half. Who was to know that big bladed thing that spun around was a fan directing cooling air to the head fins covered by a metal plate? I crashed so much I had removed both side plates. I....er....thought removing the metal cover over the head fins would get better cooling (heh). I discovered that engines seize when over heated. But I was 14... Give me a break. I knew when I saw my first little Honda 160 in the school parking lot...that something new...and good was happening. Cushman's vanished from the scene...almost overnight....with their unsophisticated engineering. Vespas and Lambettas were more sophisticated. Criswell Sent from my iPad

On Sep 12, 2012, at 6:17 AM, "achesley43@..." wrote: > > > , i know of a few die-hard hardley riders that have been riding 30 or so years that still carry the tools they think they will need -- and many know how to use them. now, the NEW gen hardley riders, yeah they have the BMW tool kit -- you know their credit card and AAA card (or whatever the moto-equivalent is). and that's exactly why harley has done so well and persevered. they targeted a new market of riders that they could make money on. > > > > Very true. I remember so well, the infamous steel gas line that all Harley's had. It always broke the ferrule at night, in the rain, and was cold. We all carried "Church Keys" to wedge them out and reattach to get home or to a service station with stuff to fix them. Stop and begged master links and chain from farmers as their combines of the day used #50 chain also. Course, the BSAs , Matchboxes, Trumpets, and others of the day were not that much mo betta either. You had to be a good mechanic to ride much in the '50's '60's. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[tony lehman]

Hope this snipped if it didn't let me know to not do it again. I think personally there are two types of riders. Those that do their maintenance and them that don't. Now a days I don't think it has to do with type of ride but whether they are the type to do it or not. When I started riding in the early eighties you still needed to be able to work on your bike because they weren't that reliable. Japan was just starting to establish reliability to the average consumer. I believe this is the main reason for so many people riding now days. Two strokes and bikes needing to be adjusted just because you rode it has come along way. I remember distinctly having my bikes kick start first kick, then the next day wearing the soles on my boots out trying to get it to start and it was new. Today's bikes are much more reliable and for that reason any one can ride. The balancers to help with vibration keep even the thumpers from falling apart. Tire technology both in cars and motorcycles is unbelievable. Seems like just got more flats 20 years ago on all vehicles. So to classify new riders to old would be based on the old riders had to work on them so they did knowing it was just part of the lifestyle. Life begins at 80..........................MPH Tony Lehman 94klr650, 86R80RT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bogdan Swider]

I don't disagree with anything you've said, Tony. Other things have changed, however, and not for the best. The consolidation of dealers and the paucity of independent shops pushes one to do his own work. For example: I don't particularly enjoy doing tire changes but in my area Colorado Springs you usually have to wait a week or two before the meg-dealership can do the job for you. It's less of a hassle for me to do it myself not to mention the cost. Then there's competence. The techs are underpaid and often young and inexperienced. When years ago I asked about doohicky//balancer stuff the service manager took me aside. He said that his Kawasaki guy quit and that he would advise me to do it myself. I don't consider myself some super wrench but at least I can take my time. Bogdan, who is living in the best as well as the worst of times From: tony lehman > Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:46 PM To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.comDSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.comDSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: O A S Hope this snipped if it didn't let me know to not do it again. I think personally there are two types of riders. Those that do their maintenance and them that don't. Now a days I don't think it has to do with type of ride but whether they are the type to do it or not. When I started riding in the early eighties you still needed to be able to work on your bike because they weren't that reliable. Japan was just starting to establish reliability to the average consumer. I believe this is the main reason for so many people riding now days. Two strokes and bikes needing to be adjusted just because you rode it has come along way. I remember distinctly having my bikes kick start first kick, then the next day wearing the soles on my boots out trying to get it to start and it was new. Today's bikes are much more reliable and for that reason any one can ride. The balancers to help with vibration keep even the thumpers from falling apart. Tire technology both in cars and motorcycles is unbelievable. Seems like just got more flats 20 years ago on all vehicles. So to classify new riders to old would be based on the old riders had to work on them so they did knowing it was just part of the lifestyle. Life begins at 80..........................MPH Tony Lehman 94klr650, 86R80RT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[klra20]

Hate to do it, but one bike has to go. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/mcy/3271728118.html

[tony lehman]

<>> Yes I guess unfortunately I do all my bike work and most of my auto/ truck work. I won't even start on the competence issue. Actually I love working on my bikes as long as i'm not in a huge rush. Dealers are consolidating but yet most of the modern riders will say oh a week ok, The Harley dealers here in northern Wy. run trailers and pick up bikes and return them for oil and tire changes. There are a lot of riders that do their own work and maybe part of that is the fact the dealerships don't have a grip on it [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]