thermostat bypass kit

[chriswiebe99]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Zachariah Mully wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 10:32 +0000, theseventhfirst wrote: > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "hardyreels" > wrote: > > > > > As an aside, I don't know how anyone does any serious off-road > [not > > > dirt road] riding with the 15t. > > > > The massive flywheel, e-start and powerband of the KLR make it > easier to > > ride offroad than 2-strokes in many cases. Many years ago, Devon > and I > > did a match race in the pouring rain, the trail was pretty much mud > or > > slick, wet rock. We passed many riders simply because we didn't > stall > > out in the mud, and the torque of the KLR comes on so slowly that it > > basically acted as traction control. The 2 strokes would peak and > simply > > spin their wheels in the wet conditions. > > > > If you want to really offroad, 13T is where it's at. > > > > Z > > > Hi Zac, > I am sure you mean 13/43 when you say 13T is where it is at. Y or N? > I am going to go to a 16/46 (the Saline solution) with my next > change, allowing for a 14/46 off road (again, the Saline solution) > with a 13T held in reserve for an experiment.... 14/46 is a near > exact equivalent for 15/43, and dropping the CS to 14 makes first > gear usable (at our experience level) without slipping the clutch a > lot. > > The 46T was available through a connection in AU, and is not > available in the states. For most of us, the 45T would be a good > substitute (IMO) for the 46 without all the hassle of importing from > AU. > revmaaatin. >

I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the 45 or 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway and off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock 43?

[Jeff Saline]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:08:22 -0000 "chriswiebe99" writes:

> I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the 45 > or > 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway > and > off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will > replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than > blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock > 43?

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> chriswieb99, I don't know about Eldon's reasoning but I can share some of my thoughts with you on good gearing for my KLR use. The automatic compression release on the KLR exhaust cam can make it pretty difficult to keep the engine running below about 700 rpm. When I use my KLR for slow speed work I'm probably in difficult conditions. Having the engine stall while in a tough spot isn't fun. I don't like to have to slip the clutch while trying to control engine speed and the front and rear brakes. So I decided I'd take a look at other options. The easiest one I could see was to change the sprocket ratios so I have higher rpm and also more power available at slow speeds. I don't ride my KLR at speeds much over 70 mph and never do that for extended periods. So my number crunching showed me a good combination for the kind of riding I do is to use either a 14 or 16 tooth front sprocket combined with a 46 tooth rear sprocket. The 16 tooth is fine for my paved travels when doing extended travel on paved surfaces at 60-65 mph. The 14 tooth is great for me on other than paved surfaces and I don't usually travel at speeds over 60 mph. I don't like to use my engine for extended intervals above 5,000 rpm. A stint of 5,300 rpm or so for 15-20 minutes is one thing but no hour upon hour of engine use like that for me. Others don't mind wrapping their engines up around 6,000 plus rpm for all day travels. I don't do that. So the 16 tooth for a ride from New Mexico to South Dakota in one day works good. That's about the same as the stock 15/43 combo. And riding for a few miles of dirt/gravel/logging roads with a 16 tooth works ok too. But I prefer the 14/46 combo off pavement. I picked the 46 tooth rear sprocket a few years ago based on how I thought it would perform. For me I got it right on the first try. One problem with the 46 tooth rear is it's not available in a steel JT Sprocket in the states. I like the steel JT Sprockets as they last a long time and are a fine quality for a reasonable price. If I had to make the swap today I'd get a 45 tooth steel JT Sprocket as I had to work quite a bit to get the 46 tooth from downunder. The guys I know riding with a 45 tooth rear find it works very well too. One of the first times I got comments on my 14/46 combo was on the Great Divide Ride three years ago. We were on Lava Mountain in Montana. It was kind of tough going and I was the last guy to advance. I was able to use just my throttle to control my speed and using the "when in doubt, power out" concept of dirt riding I could just twist my wrist to move through, over and around the rocks and roots and ruts. When I got done with the first run one guy made a comment about how he could hear a difference in how well my bike performed. If I continue to recall correctly he was the one guy to change his rear sprocket to a 45 tooth before we departed. I had an interesting talk with Dave Jakeman that same year in the spring before the ride. We discuss tooth selection and chain maintenance and adjustment. I called him to ask why he suggested a guy should stay with odd tooth sprockets instead of even numbered sprockets. He explained his thinking on how on an odd tooth sprocket the sideplates will contact every tooth every other rotation. On an even number sprocket the sideplates will always contact the same teeth and result in uneven sprocket wear. I decided that wasn't an issue for me as I'm willing to rotate my chain one tooth every time I swap front sprockets and get more even wear. If I recall correctly Dave was using a 13/39 combo and that worked well for the kind of riding he did. That put his bike at the same ratio as using a 15/45 combo. From my notes on ratios when I was in the market for a sprocket combo that would work for me here is some data. Remember the stock gearing on a KLR650 is 15 front and 43 rear. REAR Frt 43 44 45 46 % from stock 16 2.687 ///////// ////////// ////////// -6.661 16 ////////// 2.750 ////////// ////////// -4.218 16 ////////// ///////// 2.8125 ////////// -1.920 15 2.866 ///////// ////////// ////////// STOCK 16 ////////// ///////// ////////// 2.875 0.314 15 ///////// 2.933 ////////// ////////// 2.337 15 ///////// ///////// 3.000 ////////// 4.675 15 ///////// ///////// ////////// 3.066 6.978 14 3.071 ///////// ////////// ///////// 7.152 14 ///////// 3.1428 ////////// ///////// 9.630 14 ///////// ///////// 3.214 ///////// 12.142 14 ///////// ///////// ////////// 3.285 14.619 13 3.308 ///////// ////////// ///////// 15.422 13 ///////// 3.385 ////////// ///////// 18.109 13 ///////// ///////// 3.462 ///////// 20.080 13 ///////// ///////// ////////// 3.538 23.447 So... if that makes sense to you the 16/45 combo will be just 1.92% taller than the stock gearing. Probably not enough to be concerned with for power. It should make for good distance gearing. The 14/45 combo will be 12.142% lower than stock and will make a huge difference off road. And if you're using a 15/45 combo the gearing will be 4.675% lower than stock and would still be fine around town and doing light dirt work. And if you were gonna get stupid a 13/45 would allow you to pull stumps at 20.080% lower than stock gearing. But I think the rear adjusters only have enough movement to work for a change of two teeth on a front sprocket. Like going from a 16 to a 14. I don't think you could tighten the chain enough going from a 16 to a 13 tooth. But I've never tried that so if someone knows for sure it'll work please let me know. For folks considering changing to a 45 tooth rear sprocket I think you'll find you need a 108 link chain. The stock chain is 106 links long. I use a chain with a master link and clip. It works well for me. I do put a dab of RTV on the clip after it's installed to help hold it in place. I lost a clip in AZ two summers ago. It took longer to find the spare master links in my stuff than it did to install the clip. Steve Rankin lost a master link clip last year the day before we started De Tour. We also put a dab of RTV on his clip. When we swapped parts from his blue bike to the red bike he bought in AZ we pulled the swing arm so we could get the stock chain off without breaking it. I'm guessing he's still using the chain he started with. Hope this helps shed some light on what I was thinking when I decided to change to a 14-16/46 sprocket combo. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[Zachariah Mully]

On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 16:08 +0000, chriswiebe99 wrote:

> > > I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the 45 or > 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway and > off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will > replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than > blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock 43?

/me wonders the same, since a 46 is going to limit your 'highway' gear, and that seems to be what everyone goes to the 16/43 for... Maybe people are just piss poor offroad riders, but I find the 15/43 to be good for about 80% of what you'll ride on a KLR, and the other 20% is usually the stuff that you're tempting fate on the KLR... I've no problem holding the bike at 5000rpms/75mph all day long, nor lugging around in the dirt. Z

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "chriswiebe99" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Zachariah Mully wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 10:32 +0000, theseventhfirst wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "hardyreels" > > wrote: > > > > > > > As an aside, I don't know how anyone does any serious off-road > > [not > > > > dirt road] riding with the 15t. > > > > > > The massive flywheel, e-start and powerband of the KLR make it > > easier to > > > ride offroad than 2-strokes in many cases. Many years ago, Devon > > and I > > > did a match race in the pouring rain, the trail was pretty much mud > > or > > > slick, wet rock. We passed many riders simply because we didn't > > stall > > > out in the mud, and the torque of the KLR comes on so slowly that it > > > basically acted as traction control. The 2 strokes would peak and > > simply > > > spin their wheels in the wet conditions. > > > > > > If you want to really offroad, 13T is where it's at. > > > > > > Z > > > > > Hi Zac, > > I am sure you mean 13/43 when you say 13T is where it is at. Y or N? > > I am going to go to a 16/46 (the Saline solution) with my next > > change, allowing for a 14/46 off road (again, the Saline solution) > > with a 13T held in reserve for an experiment.... 14/46 is a near > > exact equivalent for 15/43, and dropping the CS to 14 makes first > > gear usable (at our experience level) without slipping the clutch a > > lot. > > > > The 46T was available through a connection in AU, and is not > > available in the states. For most of us, the 45T would be a good > > substitute (IMO) for the 46 without all the hassle of importing from > > AU. > > revmaaatin. > > > I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the 45 or > 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway and > off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will > replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than > blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock 43? >

I'm gonna say that except for those who want taller gearing, going to a larger sprocket allows for more low-gearing options, while providing for highway gearing that is close to stock. 16/46 is very close to 13/43, and allows you to gear down with a 15t, 14t, and perhaps a 13t. 16/45 is a little taller than stock and allows the same choice of countershaft sprockets. Then there is the school of thought that holds that the chain will last longer if you wrap it around slightly larger sprockets.

[Zachariah Mully]

On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 20:42 +0000, Jud Jones wrote:

> I'm gonna say that except for those who want taller gearing, going to a larger sprocket > allows for more low-gearing options, while providing for highway gearing that is close to > stock. 16/46 is very close to 13/43, and allows you to gear down with a 15t, 14t, and > perhaps a 13t. 16/45 is a little taller than stock and allows the same choice of > countershaft sprockets.

I'd be interested to see what exactly people are riding that they feel they'd need a 14/46. I'd think at that point, I'd turn around and find another way around. Z

[Ronald Criswell]

I have stock gearing and it works fine. Twice I could have used lower gearing. Criswell

On Jun 11, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Zachariah Mully wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 16:08 +0000, chriswiebe99 wrote: > > > > > I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the > 45 or > > 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway > and > > off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will > > replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than > > blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock 43? > > /me wonders the same, since a 46 is going to limit your 'highway' > gear, > and that seems to be what everyone goes to the 16/43 for... > > Maybe people are just piss poor offroad riders, but I find the > 15/43 to > be good for about 80% of what you'll ride on a KLR, and the other > 20% is > usually the stuff that you're tempting fate on the KLR... I've no > problem holding the bike at 5000rpms/75mph all day long, nor lugging > around in the dirt. > > Z > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[denvowell@aol.com]

In a message dated 6/11/2007 5:29:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, zmully@... writes: I'd be interested to see what exactly people are riding that they feel they'd need a 14/46. I'd think at that point, I'd turn around and find another way around. Zack I can't see you turning down a challange ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John thomas]

John thomas wrote: I currently use the 13/43? setting. A lot or the off roading that I do involvs steep down hilling. I have no problem with the stock setup of 15/43 up hill however I do not get sufficent engin braking to slow down on my down hills. whitch is why I eventually will try a 13/45 to try to get that breaking power instead of crossing my fingers and flying down the hill at 15 mph +. Ronald Criswell wrote: I have stock gearing and it works fine. Twice I could have used lower gearing. Criswell

On Jun 11, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Zachariah Mully wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 16:08 +0000, chriswiebe99 wrote: > > > > > I've been wondering why both Jeff and Eldon of MSM recommend the > 45 or > > 46T solution? I've been successfully using 14/43 for both highway > and > > off-road for a year now. When I need to change the chain, I will > > replace all with a 14/45. But WHY do we want a 45 rear (other than > > blindly following Jeff's 'salient' advice) rather than the stock 43? > > /me wonders the same, since a 46 is going to limit your 'highway' > gear, > and that seems to be what everyone goes to the 16/43 for... > > Maybe people are just piss poor offroad riders, but I find the > 15/43 to > be good for about 80% of what you'll ride on a KLR, and the other > 20% is > usually the stuff that you're tempting fate on the KLR... I've no > problem holding the bike at 5000rpms/75mph all day long, nor lugging > around in the dirt. > > Z > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Thomas 90 Tengai 17,350 Forest Park Ga. --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! Thomas 90 Tengai 17,350 Forest Park Ga. --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

> In a message dated 6/11/2007 5:29:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > zmully@... writes: > > I'd be interested to see what exactly people are riding that they > feel > they'd need a 14/46. I'd think at that point, I'd turn around and > find > another way around.

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Zach, I think gearing choices for the KLR are similar to hammer choices for carpenters. One size/style doesn't fit all occasions. A guy building a house could do it with a 12 oz. claw hammer. But framing would be painful after the first wall. Maybe a heavier framing hammer would be a better choice until it came time to do some finish work and then it might be time to pick a different hammer. Same for the KLR. I like the option of taller gearing for my longer distance paved work but choose not to use it for extensive unpaved travel. I also try to ride my KLR within the limits I think are safe and reasonable. I think if Steve and I had known what was instore for us on the Apache Indian Reservation in AZ we might not have tackled it. It took us about 4 hours to do 45 miles. We had multiple creek bed crossings consisting of softball to beachball size rocks. Some were dry and many were wet. We had sand in Wyoming when following the Overland Stage route for a bit. Near the Hole in the Wall we did two track that was closer to single track. Getting to New Castle, WY we did a descent that was steep, long and mostly loose rock on smooth rock. No going back up on that one. But on most of the trip stock gearing would have been fine. I think I could have made the entire ride with stock gearing but my 14/46 combo made the off pavement part of the trip more pleasurable. Oh, and this was always with a full touring load. We weren't at a base camp and just out riding each day. My return to South Dakota using 16/46 gearing on paved surfaces was also pretty nice. Nicer than it would have been using 14/46 gearing. I suppose gearing choices are similar to tire choices too. Many folks think Kenda K270s aren't any good on pavement. I find them fine on pavement and try to keep my riding within the limits of the tires. I think they help me be a safer rider as I like to go fast and they won't allow stupidly unsafe speeds here in the Beautiful Black Hills. Off road, which is one of the main reasons I have a KLR, they are an excellent tire for the riding I find myself doing the most. If I did 95% of my riding on paved surfaces I'm sure I'd be finding a different tire. Lucky me that I can start riding off road within about 10 miles of my house. I'm glad you've found gearing choices which work well for you. I've been lucky in finding what works well for me too. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[topmap1]

Jason, I'm not connected with Bill Watson and the pictures are in the photo section of the web site. I have been working of a bypass unit on and off for two years. After I joined the KLR yahoo group 6 months ago I read the article written by Bill Watson. His data showed that a bypass system worked and would help the engine temperatures especially in the winter months. This spurred me on to finish the design I had been working on. There are two ways to accomplish a bypass system. One is to attach the unit directly to the thermostat housing outlet. This lets the engine absorb the vibration of the unit. I looked at this but was worried about how far it stuck out from the side of the engine. I have had crashes that I was afraid I was going the remove the coolant tank and thermostat housing. I have sense added additional guarding but I decided to go with a remote bypass on my design. I designed the unit to be light (less then 10 oz.) and small enough to fit in the area between the engine and the front frame support which is in one of the photos. As I have said I have not seen any movement of the bypass hitting anything on the two bikes I have them installed on. One of the bikes I ride every day. I designed this to help other riders solve the coolant problems on the KLR bikes. I don't care which system you use I'm not doing this to make money. I think it is very worthwhile to add a coolant bypass especially if you ride in the winter. After 3 months the coolant bypass system has worked great on my 03. Martin, Albuquerque

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "klrmtn" wrote: > > Martin, > Where have the pictures of the latest design been posted? I have > been to Bill's site, is it similar? I was wondering about that block > hanging off of the hoses and the vibration. Thanks for any > additional info you've got. > Jason > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "topmap1" wrote: > > > > Jason, I'm in the process of fabricating 12 more systems. There are > > pictures of the unit posted if you want to look at it. They are > > working fine on my two bikes. The bypass was light enough it did > not > > look like it vibrated even after 10 mile of rough washboard. I'm > > going to do some pressure testing on the pump to see if I can > design > > a automatic shutoff valve for the bypass for hot temperatures or > > heavy loads. This may take a while and currently it look like the > > system is working better than ever even with the bypass loss. This > > is probably because of the automotive thermostat, which has less > > pumping losses then the stock one. During the winter the system > > works great. Then the bypass systems are complete and the > > installation instruction are complete I will let you know. > > > > Martin Albuquerque > > >