nklr vs my other bikes - second set of wheels

[telliott@aol.com]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[W.V. Doran]

I don't think this is the problem, but it might help lower the temp a few degrees. http://www.muzzys.com/fans.cfm Stephen Grisanti wrote: Ran it a while with the radiator cap off, and if air escaped it was not enough to make a difference in running temp, or to cause the coolant level to drop perceptibly. Will try again for a longer test period. Damn, this is maddening. The bike runs great, just not too long without overheating (or *appearing* to overheat). Stephen --- Don S wrote:

> Is the thermostat working properly? > > Have you tried to run it for a while with the > radiator cap off. Sometimes if there is air in the > system, running it with the cap off will help it > escape. > > Good luck. > > Don > > Stephen Grisanti wrote: > Oops! Fatfingered the keyboard on that > response. > > Jeff, > > Checking the impeller is the very first thing I did > in > my first troubleshooting session, as that had been > recommended early on. It was snug on the shaft and > did not appear to turn unless the shaft turns also, > so > I figured that was not the problem. > > Also cleaned out the oil screen during the same > session. Thanks! > > Stephen > > --- Jeff Saline wrote: > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:56:08 -0800 (PST) Stephen > > Grisanti > > writes: > > > Okay, this thing takes about 20 minutes for the > > gauge > > > to hit the upper part of the dial, and that's > > enough > > > time for me to ride to work or to ride home, so > > I'm > > > commuting on it but not risking a longer ride. > > > Interestingly, taking the freeway home gets it > > hotter. > > > > SNIP > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Stephen > > <><><><><><><> > > <><><><><><><> > > > > Stephen, > > > > First thing that comes to mind hearing about what > > you've already done is > > maybe the impeller isn't securely attached to the > > shaft in the coolant > > pump. I think you could pull the coolant pump > cover > > on the right side of > > the engine to check it out. Don't snap the > threaded > > end off the shaft > > when you check it out. That would turn a fine day > > into a less than fine > > day. > > > > Best, > > > > Jeff Saline > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > > >

__________________________________________________________

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! > Small Business > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your email and see which of your friends are > online - Right on the new Yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650 ... earch.html

> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) WVDoran Scottsdale, AZ --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stephen Grisanti]

I will keep it in mind. Thanks! --- "W.V. Doran" wrote:

> I don't think this is the problem, but it might help > lower the temp a few degrees. > http://www.muzzys.com/fans.cfm > > Stephen Grisanti wrote: > Ran it a while with the radiator cap off, > and if air > escaped it was not enough to make a difference in > running temp, or to cause the coolant level to drop > perceptibly. Will try again for a longer test > period. > > Damn, this is maddening. The bike runs great, just > not too long without overheating (or *appearing* to > overheat). > > Stephen > > --- Don S wrote: > > > Is the thermostat working properly? > > > > Have you tried to run it for a while with the > > radiator cap off. Sometimes if there is air in the > > system, running it with the cap off will help it > > escape. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Don > > > > Stephen Grisanti wrote: > > Oops! Fatfingered the keyboard on that > > response. > > > > Jeff, > > > > Checking the impeller is the very first thing I > did > > in > > my first troubleshooting session, as that had been > > recommended early on. It was snug on the shaft and > > did not appear to turn unless the shaft turns > also, > > so > > I figured that was not the problem. > > > > Also cleaned out the oil screen during the same > > session. Thanks! > > > > Stephen > > > > --- Jeff Saline wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:56:08 -0800 (PST) Stephen > > > Grisanti > > > writes: > > > > Okay, this thing takes about 20 minutes for > the > > > gauge > > > > to hit the upper part of the dial, and that's > > > enough > > > > time for me to ride to work or to ride home, > so > > > I'm > > > > commuting on it but not risking a longer ride. > > > > > Interestingly, taking the freeway home gets it > > > hotter. > > > > > > SNIP > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Stephen > > > <><><><><><><> > > > <><><><><><><> > > > > > > Stephen, > > > > > > First thing that comes to mind hearing about > what > > > you've already done is > > > maybe the impeller isn't securely attached to > the > > > shaft in the coolant > > > pump. I think you could pull the coolant pump > > cover > > > on the right side of > > > the engine to check it out. Don't snap the > > threaded > > > end off the shaft > > > when you check it out. That would turn a fine > day > > > into a less than fine > > > day. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Jeff Saline > > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________

> > Want to start your own business? Learn how on > Yahoo! > > Small Business > > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Get your email and see which of your friends are > > online - Right on the new Yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > >

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650 ... earch.html

> > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > > www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________

> Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more > powerful email and get things done faster. > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > > > > > > > WVDoran > Scottsdale, AZ > > --------------------------------- > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Try

=== message truncated === __________________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

[Jeff Saline]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:10:38 -0800 (PST) Stephen Grisanti writes:

> I'll try the temp sender next. I did not test the > thermostat itself, but ran without it for more than a > month and that made no difference. > > Stephen

<><><><><><><> ><><><><><>

[Bill Watson]

Jeff Layton did have some problems with a gauge that was reporting very high readings even though the bike was not over heating. I've calibrated a number of gauges and have posted the basic temp-vs.-nedle angle at the very bottom of www.xanga.com/watt_man . On another note, the ability to trap air in a factory system is quite low - the design is quite good as long as the thermostat is installed with the bleeder hole at the top. You could remove the 'stat and drive around as well... my guess is that you have a funky gauge. Of course, my favorite solution... measure actual temps! I know, I know... easier said than done. Bill Watson Phoenix --------------------------------- Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stephen Grisanti]

I recall reading the posts about the various temp guages being out of range, which is what makes me suspicious of my own guage. This whole mess began with one instance of actual overheating (as opposed to the current suspected "indicated" overheating episodes) due to a low coolant level. I topped off at that time and have been having this problem ever since. I will check the sender first and then get into the guage testing, and I will post the findings. Thanks for all the input, guys. Stephen --- Jeff Saline wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:10:38 -0800 (PST) Stephen > Grisanti > writes: > > I'll try the temp sender next. I did not test the > > thermostat itself, but ran without it for more > than a > > month and that made no difference. > > > > Stephen > <><><><><><><> ><><><><><> > Stephen, > > Since you ran the bike without the stat I'm now > thinking it's just a > problem with the temp indicator system. My bet is > the sending unit in > the head or the gauge. Jeff Layton's comments about > his experiences with > this issue probably don't accurately reflect how > much effort he put into > getting his system working correctly. As I recall, > he received something > like 5 or 6 gauges and senders from the dealer that > were all out of spec. > I recall taking a few measurements for him early > last summer on a few > bikes to help him with data. I think all the > readings I got were out of > spec too. > > Let us know what you finally learn. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >

____________________________________________________________________________________ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)

[fasteddiecopeman]

Stephen, This MIGHT help fix your problem. It's the way a buddy of mine ended his overheating which occurred AFTER he rebuilt his KLR engine with an oversized piston. And it might help someone elde out there. If it does, you owe thanks to Joe who wrote this up: It looks like my obstinate overheating problem on the KLR has now been solved and I am a lot smarter about engine cooling systems than I was. You can file the following information away for future reference. Some of it may be old hat to some of you though I suspect there is at least one bit of information that will be new to 99 per cent of you. If you develop an overheating problem do the following first, while recognizing it can be for more than one reason: 1. look the whole system over for coolant leaks 2. make sure the thermostat works 3. make sure the water pump impeller works 4. make sure the cooling fan works (both fan and switch) 5. look for collapsed hoses 6. make sure the radiator cap holds pressure 7. flush the radiator, making sure water flows through it freely 8. if possible, put the whole system under pressure to see if it will hold for eight or ten hours. If all this checks out, you have a serious problem. The fault is somewhere on the combustion side of the system. Before you tear the engine apart, see if you can find a shop that can test your coolant for combustion gases. A chemical test strip will do it. You could actually buy a kit at NAPA to do it yourself, but it will cost $45 or so, but if steps one through eight check out okay or you have corrected them, you know it has to be in the engine itself. If the problem is on the combustion side, it usually means a warped head, cracked head, or a broken head gasket. Because pressure is escaping from your combustion chamber into the cooling system, the coolant is being forced into the overflow system and not being allowed to come back. This is what is causing the overheating. Your overflow is not filling up because you are overheating, but rather you are overheating because your coolant is being force out of the system and filling up the overflow. Here's how you tell. Fill your radiator and make sure the overflow is at the correct level. Now drive until you see the engine start to get hot, about 40 or 50 miles. Stop and look. Is the radiator now low and the overflow full or overflowing? Well, my head was warped so I had it shaved five thousands and put in a new head gasket. Off I went, and soon my engine was overheating and coolant was coming out the overflow. I again took off the head and had it checked for cracks at the machine shop. I should have had this done when I had the head checked for warpage. They put pressure on it to search for the cracks. It checked out fine so I put it back together again, along with a new head gasket. Off for another ride and the same problem. Off came the head again and a trip to a different machine shop to have it checked for cracks using a dye approach. No cracks. By now there was nothing more to check. As a desperate move, just before parting it out and selling it on Ebay, I thought I might try a thicker head gasket on the assumption that maybe the OEM gasket couldn't handle the additional pressure caused by the shaved head. This shouldn't be so, but what else was I going to try? I begin to search the internet for a company that would custom make a head gasket and found one. In the discussion, I explained to the fellow that I had put in a new cylinder sleeve. The new sleeve came in the rough, so I had to have it bored to the new piston. Since the top of the sleeve extended beyond the deck of the block, I had to have it milled flush with the deck. He explained that that was my problem. He said as soon as the engine heated up, that flush cylinder sleeve dropped down a bit. He said if I would pull the sleeve, making sure to put it back the way it was, and shave the deck so the top of the sleeve would be two thousandths above the deck, my problem would be solved. I checked and sure enough, the sleeve was at least two thousands below the deck of the cylinder block. I followed his instructions and it now works fine. Problem solved. My problem was the result of at least two things, a warped head and a sleeve that was at least two thousands below the deck of the cylinder block. It feels good to have finally solved the problem, as I was completely at my wits end. Cheers, Ed

[Jeff Layton]

Stephen - I think I forgot to tell you one last thing I tried - when I swapped out all the Kawasaki cooling system parts, I also put in Engine Ice coolant (I already had water wetter in there from before & saw no difference with it) Since I had the whole system opened up again & needed a new fill, I chose that one. What got me started on the Kawasaki path was a letter I wrote to the CEO of Kawasaki Motors America showing the number of temp gauges I measured that were out of spec (like 9 of 10). In the end, the "good" bikes have temp gauges that are out of spec. It's a combination of things more than one thing - as far as I can tell. Jeff Layton A15 Austin, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stephen Grisanti]

Jeff, Thanks for the leads. I dare not assume anything, but greatly suspect the "indication" part of this and will test everything along the way. Of course, this is complicated by a time change, a work schedule and a gravel driveway. Ah, yes, dropping small parts in the dark... Stephen --- Jeff Layton wrote:

> Stephen: > > It sounds like you're going down the same path I > did. I fought this for 6 months or so, and wound up > only poorer & more frustrated. > > Here's what I suggest: > 1) Follow every step in the manual, including > boiling the temp sender & fan switch in water & > seeing when they activate. > > 2) Check the temp gauge resistance readings - also > per the manual. Note that I now have an out of spec > temp gauge in my bike & it reads fine - this is a > part the Kawasaki rep sent me from a bike that was > running fine. > > 3) You checked all the obvious stuff - water pump > impeller, flush & fill, radiator clogging, etc. I > never found a "smoking gun" but ended up replacing > every part in the system with parts from a known > good bike & now I'm good - but I don't know why. > Your choices are simple: > > -Fan Switch, Fan motor, Fan blade (air flow) > -Water pump / impeller (water flow) > -Temp Sender / Temp Gauge (indication) > -Radiator (heat removal / water flow / air flow) > > I wish I could offer you more, but like I said - it > was never fully diagnosed. I do have a new fan > switch & temp sender I was getting ready to put on > eBay though.... > > > Please keep us posted how this progresses. > > Jeff Layton > A15, Austin TX > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650 ... earch.html

> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

____________________________________________________________________________________ We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com)

[Don S]

Hey Steve: A solution for dropping things in the dark on a gravel driveway is to get a good size cardboard box and trim the walls to about two inches in height and slide it under the bike. You'll have a nice clean surface to pick things up from and the short walls will keep things from rolling away. Works for me. Don S. from Lower Pump Handle Saskatchewan Stephen Grisanti wrote: Jeff, Thanks for the leads. I dare not assume anything, but greatly suspect the "indication" part of this and will test everything along the way. Of course, this is complicated by a time change, a work schedule and a gravel driveway. Ah, yes, dropping small parts in the dark... Stephen --- Jeff Layton wrote:

> Stephen: > > It sounds like you're going down the same path I > did. I fought this for 6 months or so, and wound up > only poorer & more frustrated. > > Here's what I suggest: > 1) Follow every step in the manual, including > boiling the temp sender & fan switch in water & > seeing when they activate. > > 2) Check the temp gauge resistance readings - also > per the manual. Note that I now have an out of spec > temp gauge in my bike & it reads fine - this is a > part the Kawasaki rep sent me from a bike that was > running fine. > > 3) You checked all the obvious stuff - water pump > impeller, flush & fill, radiator clogging, etc. I > never found a "smoking gun" but ended up replacing > every part in the system with parts from a known > good bike & now I'm good - but I don't know why. > Your choices are simple: > > -Fan Switch, Fan motor, Fan blade (air flow) > -Water pump / impeller (water flow) > -Temp Sender / Temp Gauge (indication) > -Radiator (heat removal / water flow / air flow) > > I wish I could offer you more, but like I said - it > was never fully diagnosed. I do have a new fan > switch & temp sender I was getting ready to put on > eBay though.... > > > Please keep us posted how this progresses. > > Jeff Layton > A15, Austin TX > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650 ... earch.html

> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________ We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com) --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]