nklr hell has frozen over. bmw builds a good offroad bike!

[Eric L. Green]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, nakedwaterskier wrote:

> One answer is to reduce your risk by not making motorcycle forays into > heavy traffic areas unless necessary.

High traffic areas are actually SAFER for a motorcyclist, at least here in California where lane splitting is legal. Any accident that happens will take place at a slow speed and you will almost certainly survive. If you have an accident at 50mph on a curving mountain road, on the other hand, you either slam into a mountain at 50mph (i.e., become a sausage creature as your insides are liquified by the g-forces) or go shooting off the side of a mountain at 50mph (ditto, as you end up parachuting without a parachute). And if you have an accident at 75mph on a freeway, well... Probably the most dangerous place for a motorcyclist in California is the HOV lane during the morning commute. I'll leave it to you to figure that one out. A headlight modulator is a big help there... -E

[clint lee jin yew]

if anyone out there has been to malaysia or bangkok, then you will know what i go through everyday and why i just love the klr. here, we have bumper to bumper traffic at rush hour and the drivers are terrible. they switch lanes without signalling or even looking. being bikes , we're normally in between the cars. and its the same even on the highways, simply switching lanes. some of them are stuck in one lane all the time too. clint

[Doug Herr]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Eric L. Green wrote:

> And if you have an accident at 75mph on a freeway, well...

Been there, done that. Nothing broken, only one quarter sized road rash spot since I only had blue jeans on the legs. I was following too close at around 75mph when the guy I was too close to got cut off. He stopped in time to avoid running into the other car. I hit my front brake too hard. Slid face down with hands down and in front of me. The full face helmet, gloves, boots & leather jacket all did their jobs. Nobody hit anybody and no insurance came into play. This is what turned me off of commuting for myself. The work day would sometimes amp up my aggression too much and thus I could be a danger to myself and/or others. The "style" of the KLR and some years of mellowing have helped with that issue. -- Doug Herr doug@...

[Randy Shultz]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "clint lee jin yew" wrote:

> > Death is something which is outta our hands. >

--- Many people believe that our decisions have no impact on when we die. I believe that we can lessen our chances of dying by reducing the risks that we choose to take. That doesn't mean that we can avoid all risk. But some risks are avoidable. Given the way many people drive, and the increased chance of dying during a motorcycle accident versus a car accident, I can understand why a father might choose to stop riding in order to improve his chances of parenting his children throughout their childhood. All life is risky. Many risks cannot be avoided. Some can. While being killed on a motorcyle may not be a likely probability, some may feel it is too high a probability to justify the risk. I can think of several places that I would not ride daily if I had children. I'm glad I don't have to face those kinds of decisions yet. I say more power to those who take the time to think through such concerns. It certainly shows their orientation towards the welfare of others, and not just self-gratification.

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Alex Jomarron wrote:

> Eric's note struck a nerve with me. > I'm 45, a father, husband, teacher, and coach. > Lately, I've had intermittent thoughts of leaving riding behind. This > has been tough for me as I have been riding since I was 18. The sport > is so ingrained in me and given me so much. My best friends have been > made because of riding. Some of my best experiences also are because of > riding. So why leave? I've been thinking of my 8 year old son and the > what ifs. What if I get slammed by some inattentive driver? I've > already ridden all 50 states, down to Guatamala, and all over Canada > and Mexico. Lord knows I've had a lot of experiences. But the what ifs > are there none the less. To further complicate matters, I bought a > sailboat 3 years ago which I can share with my family. But it cuts into > my riding time. > So, if I choose not to ride to work, or even ever again, does that make > me a coward? Or possibly would I have made a conscious decision to make > the odds better that I will see my son graduate high school? > Food for thought and debate. > Cheers,

Motorcycling is a purely voluntary activity. If you think you should quit, you should quit. To ride, you knowingly accept a higher level of risk than the next guy. If that level of risk is unacceptable to you, you should quit. Whether you think you are a coward may have some bearing on your decision. What anybody else thinks is irrelevant. No sailboats for me: a good day to sail is a good day to ride. Ditto golf.

[CA Stu]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Alex Jomarron

wrote:

> > Eric's note struck a nerve with me. > > I'm 45, a father, husband, teacher, and coach. > > Lately, I've had intermittent thoughts of leaving riding behind. > Motorcycling is a purely voluntary activity. If you think you

should quit, you should quit.

> To ride, you knowingly accept a higher level of risk than the next

guy. If that level of risk

> is unacceptable to you, you should quit. >

I went for the most exhilarating streetbike ride of my life this Sunday. I was just feeling in the groove, one with my bike (NKLR). Managed to touch a peg on the way to Julian (Wynola Rd), kicked my confidence level up a couple of notches, and from then on, it was a morning and early afternoon full of speed and adrenalin. After some pie and coffee, I chased a guy on a Ducati all the way from Borrego Springs to Ranchita up the S22, otherwise known as "The Glass Elevator". I started off behing 5 Harleys and a car on the way up the hill, I was just taking it easy, when a Superbike whizzed past us all, and I thought "I'm not gonna lie down for that!" and gave it some stick. Not going to give a boring blow by blow description, but at one point I felt I was going into a corner too hot, I pushed on the inside bar, leaned it over farther, and railed right through. At that point, I was completely in the zone. I was between 10 yards and 400 yards behind the guy the whole the way up the mountain... Brake for a corner, I'd catch him, coming out of the corner, he'd put some space on me... He was a better rider than I am, but that short stretch of road (with a rabbit to chase) gave me a ride that was unbeleivable, an out of body experience. At the straightaway at the top of the hill, the guy slowed down for me to catch him, gave me a thumbs up, I returned it, and I felt every hair on my head tingle. If you've ever had that kind of a ride, felt the adrenaline streaming into your blood, accepted the challenge to your ability and felt the elation of succesfully riding near your limits, maybe even surpassing your current abilities, you'll have a hell of a time quitting riding. As I relaxed at home that evening and enjoyed a cold one, I reflected on how many more years I have to go out and experience that kind of thrill. Hopefully a lot, 'coz I dug the sh*t out of it! Thanks CA Stu

[clint lee jin yew]

CA Stu, reading your post, i have that nearly every day. its either with the local 2 stoke 150cc's , cars and on special occasions, the traffic police. riding with the cops is a real fantastic thing, no words can describe. i followed one guy few years back in a 50km/h hill strech. he was on a cbx750 , i was on a vulcan750. we were going between 80 to 100. then there was wonce i folled a guy on his cbx with my zephyer. 48km later , when he took the exit, he saluted me, and i saluted him. we are humans, we love chalenges dont we? but the the klr, i can't quite run with the cbx750's wheres my bro's beemer when i need one? clint

[Randy Shultz]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "CA Stu" wrote:

> >> If you've ever had that kind of a ride, felt the adrenaline

streaming into your blood, accepted the challenge to your ability and felt the > elation of succesfully riding near your limits, maybe even surpassing > your current abilities, you'll have a hell of a time quitting riding.

> >

--- I guess I read the man's post differently. He said he had many years of riding experience. I bet that means he knows very well how much fun it is to ride and ride well. Yet, I suspect that as a father, one develops a deep love and concern for the welfare of one's children. I had the unfortunate experience of sitting with one of my best friend's wives at her husband's funeral. He died doing exactly what he loved: flying. He left three young kids. But he had the sense (and ability) to provide for them in the form of life insurance. They were going to be alright financially. Emotionally? I talked to two of those kids several years later. They would have preferred to have their father. Of course. The original poster talked about cowardice. Personally, I think a man who can put something he loves on the back burner in order to do something that he feels is even more important, is anything but a coward. Heck, that's a very self-sacrificing, admirable thing to do in my opinion. We need more men like that in today's "all about me" world. The real question is whether or not riding a motorcycle in some areas is truly a risky thing to do. I've ridden enough to know that it can be. Like I said, there are certain places I would not ride on a regular basis if I had kids. For instance, I live in Las Vegas. We have a very significant number of drunk drivers in this town, and they can be on the road at any time of day. Personally, if I had kids, I wouldn't commute here. Not even though I enjoyed it. Not even because I saved some money on gas. It would be too risky relative to my responsibilities as a father. What I WOULD do, is keep a dual sport to ride away from town, or in the dirt, or a sport-tourer for the wide open spaces of Nevada, Utah and Arizona. But I wouldn't commute. There's a reason I pay higher insurance rates here than I did in New York City, even with a clean driving record. I bet a lot of situations are like that. It is a good thing to think about the implications of what we choose to do. Doesn't mean that we don't do it anyway. It just means we've thought it through, with respect to what the consequences may be for others. Maybe we decide it's worth the risk. Maybe we buy a little more life insurance. Maybe we decide not to use our bikes just to get to work. But at least we had the courage and good sense to think it through, and the maturity to think of what's best for those for whom we have responsibility, over our own personal desires.

[CA Stu]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Shultz" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "CA Stu" wrote: > > > >> If you've ever had that kind of a ride, felt the adrenaline > streaming into your blood, accepted the challenge to your ability

and

> felt the > elation of succesfully riding near your limits, maybe

even

> surpassing > your current abilities, you'll have a hell of a time > quitting riding. > > > > > --- > > I guess I read the man's post differently. He said he had many

years

> of riding experience. I bet that means he knows very well how much > fun it is to ride and ride well. > > Yet, I suspect that as a father, one develops a deep love and

concern

> for the welfare of one's children. I had the unfortunate

experience

> of sitting with one of my best friend's wives at her husband's > funeral. He died doing exactly what he loved: flying. He left

three

> young kids. But he had the sense (and ability) to provide for them > in the form of life insurance. They were going to be alright > financially. Emotionally? I talked to two of those kids several > years later. They would have preferred to have their father. Of > course. > > The original poster talked about cowardice. Personally, I think a > man who can put something he loves on the back burner in order to

do

> something that he feels is even more important, is anything but a > coward. Heck, that's a very self-sacrificing, admirable thing to

do

> in my opinion. We need more men like that in today's "all about

me"

> world. > > The real question is whether or not riding a motorcycle in some

areas

> is truly a risky thing to do. I've ridden enough to know that it

can

> be. Like I said, there are certain places I would not ride on a > regular basis if I had kids. > > For instance, I live in Las Vegas. We have a very significant

number

> of drunk drivers in this town, and they can be on the road at any > time of day. Personally, if I had kids, I wouldn't commute here. > Not even though I enjoyed it. Not even because I saved some money

on

> gas. It would be too risky relative to my responsibilities as a > father. > > What I WOULD do, is keep a dual sport to ride away from town, or in > the dirt, or a sport-tourer for the wide open spaces of Nevada,

Utah

> and Arizona. But I wouldn't commute. There's a reason I pay

higher

> insurance rates here than I did in New York City, even with a clean > driving record. I bet a lot of situations are like that. > > It is a good thing to think about the implications of what we

choose

> to do. Doesn't mean that we don't do it anyway. It just means

we've

> thought it through, with respect to what the consequences may be

for

> others. Maybe we decide it's worth the risk. Maybe we buy a

little

> more life insurance. Maybe we decide not to use our bikes just to > get to work. But at least we had the courage and good sense to

think

> it through, and the maturity to think of what's best for those for > whom we have responsibility, over our own personal desires.

I have 3 young children and I have life insurance. I took the motorcycle safety class, I wear protective gear, I stack the odds in my favor as best as I can. I disagree with your logic as far as "riding in certain places". Riding anywhere can be dangerous. I prefer to think of myslef as the master of my riding environment, a dynamic participant who determines his actions, rather than a victim of / slave to it. As far as being a father, I taught my 2 oldest how to ride motorcycles, and my daughter is teh best pillion I have ever had. She's 8 years old. My 9 yr. old son is looking forward to being old enough to own a KLR and doing some adventure rides with his dad. Different strokes for different folks. Like Jud said, if your heart ain't in it, probably better to let it go. Thanks CA Stu PS Nothing is truly risk free. You can fall over and break your neck getting out of your office chair.

[Ramey]

really, really good web weaving -----Original Message----- From: Eric L. Green [mailto:ericnospam@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:56 AM To: Ramey Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR-Cowardly commuters

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Ramey wrote: > When someone asks me about taking up motorcycling, I halt the conversation > and ask them to realize the only way to avoid getting hurt on a motorcycle > is to not get on one. Resolve that one and move on. I still ask myself that I'm not sure how true that one is. It's like saying "the only way to avoid getting hurt in a car is to not get in one." I'm missing a chunk of meat out of my left foot from not wearing proper footgear and getting into a motorcycle accident at age 18. My ribs occasionally ache as the result of a car accident at age 30 (seat belt cracked my ribs). Life is risk. All you can do is manage the risk. I don't ride without wearing full protective gear and being paranoid about what the motorists around me intend to do to me, and I don't do solo wilderness journeys (another risky thing to do) without making sure that I have full survival gear for any possible weather that I can encounter and if I feel the least bit nervous about conditions or water supply once I get to the trailhead and notice that the temperature is too hot or too cold or too dry for me to safely backpack with the gear I have on my back, I turn back and go home. I could die riding a motorcycle. I could die hiking alone in the wilderness. I could die if a car turned right into me as I'm crossing the street tomorrow during my daily jog. The answer is not to huddle in fear but, rather, to realize that all men die. Death is as unavoidable as taxes. All you can do is manage the risks, and try to shift things such that if you do die, it's only after having lived. And if you die doing something you enjoy, well (shrug) at least you died in a way of your own choosing, rather than in a way that totally sucks (like cancer). > question periodically. Getting seriously damaged sucks. Done that. Love > travelling by motorcycle though, the places I've been and seen-only on a > KLR. Am I a coward if I stop riding? What does that have to do with it? If I > stop riding it only means thats what I've done. The inner motovations for > actions are a fun entanglement. The webs we weave. I believe you are a coward if you seek to eliminate (rather than manage) the risks in your life. Life is risk. All you accomplish by becoming, as Sophie Scholl put it, "people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe", is to become good Germans in 1934, afraid to live, afraid to stand up for what is right and true because that would involve risk. Without risk, you are merely a useless animal taking up space on the planet consuming resources without making any contribution towards making the world a better place. All that is good, all that makes the world a better place, involves risk. You try to manage the risk, but if you wish to live, rather than roll your spirit up into a tiny little ball and hide in a cave of going through the motions of life, risk is unavoidable. The Nazis executed Sophie, but she lived more in her young life than a dozen middle-aged American sheeple huddling in fear in their 8 ton SUV's and fortified gated communities. -E