kings 966 tire - no directional arrow

[denis@teachlinux.com]

CIA trained? Can you back that up, or are you waiting for the black helo's to come down with the papers? Denis

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > Actually I hadn't thought of that strategy, but now that I think > about it perhaps the CIA trained Al-Qaeda has baited us into going > to the Middle east in much the same manner? > > Conall > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, denis@t... wrote: > > I think you see it wrong.. > > > > 1. We piss of all the bad guys and give them somewhere to > concentrate. > > 2. Now that we have them in one location we are able to kill them. > > > > I would much rather have a known location to kill the bad guys then > waste > > time trying to hunt them down. > > > > Since I don't think you have ever been in the military, I'll assume > you > > never thought of this as a strategy. > > > > Denis > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > > > wrote: > > > > For those who don't trust the government, read this instead. > Its a > > > > cornucopia of good news you never hear about in Iraq from the > > > lying, liberal > > > > media. For the blame/hate America first crowd, don't bother to > > > read it, > > > > your mind is already made up. > > > > > > > > http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610 > > > > > > > > R > > don't expect > > > > it to go unchallenged. > > > > > > The puppet PM of Iraq, Iyad Allawi, his sponsors, President Bush > and > > > VP Dick Cheney are all lying to the American public about the > real > > > situation in Iraq. They say things are getting better, that most > of > > > Iraq could vote in an election tomorrow and that "democracy and > > > freedom will prevail, without a doubt." Nonsense! Out and out > lies. > > > > > > The Sunni Triangle, Sadr City, Najaf, Ramadi, Karbala, Mosul, > Samarra- > > > all of these important centers, even Kirkuk, which once seemed > safe > > > in the hands of the Kurds, have all become no-go zones for the > > > American troops and the small number of Iraqis who dare venture > in to > > > be shot. America is bombing all of these places on an almost > daily > > > basis; thus, antagonizing more and more Iraqis and more Muslims > > > throughout the world. > > > > > > But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said voting might > not > > > be possible in some areas where militants are active and the > violence > > > is too great. > > > > > > "Well, so be it, nothing is perfect in life, so you have an > election > > > that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an > election.? > > > You bet," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rense.com/general57/condf.htm > > > > > > > > > Because the current administration is more concerned with its > image > > > than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: > soldiers > > > are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is > tragic, > > > indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so > willingly > > > sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood > and > > > treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un- > Constitutional. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html > > > > > > Conall > > > > > > and finally a quote from the President > > > > > > "I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us > today. > > > He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn is > > > with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." > > > G.W. Bush > > > Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List > FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[denis@teachlinux.com]

Semper Fi, You don't ned the grunt on the groud to be a strategist, you just need him to understand the mission and be trained well enough to carry it out. The mission is to close with and distroy the enemy. At least be getting the enemy to gather in one location your able to do this, rather then spend your time searching for them. Why do you think we fought some of the battles that we have in the past? Get them where you can hurt them, Denis

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Paul wrote: > Oh Geeze it just had to go down that "you've never been in the > military road". Having spent the most miserable years of my life in > the Marine Corps, in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, for all > the wrong reasons, I guess I'm qualified to comment. 99% of the > military are not strategists. They just follow orders and believe > what they're told, no matter how absurd it may be. Some of us > (military and ex-military) actually manage to wake up and smell the > coffee and no longer believe it's raining when in fact, we're being > pissed on. I guess I have to apologize for helping to start this > little fracas. I'll go back to having fun with my bike now. > > Paul > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, denis@t... wrote: > > I think you see it wrong.. > > > > 1. We piss of all the bad guys and give them somewhere to > concentrate. > > 2. Now that we have them in one location we are able to kill them. > > > > I would much rather have a known location to kill the bad guys > then waste > > time trying to hunt them down. > > > > Since I don't think you have ever been in the military, I'll > assume you > > never thought of this as a strategy. > > > > Denis > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > > > > wrote: > > > > For those who don't trust the government, read this instead. > Its a > > > > cornucopia of good news you never hear about in Iraq from the > > > lying, liberal > > > > media. For the blame/hate America first crowd, don't bother > to > > > read it, > > > > your mind is already made up. > > > > > > > > http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610 > > > > > > > > R comment, > > > don't expect > > > > it to go unchallenged. > > > > > > The puppet PM of Iraq, Iyad Allawi, his sponsors, President Bush > and > > > VP Dick Cheney are all lying to the American public about the > real > > > situation in Iraq. They say things are getting better, that most > of > > > Iraq could vote in an election tomorrow and that "democracy and > > > freedom will prevail, without a doubt." Nonsense! Out and out > lies. > > > > > > The Sunni Triangle, Sadr City, Najaf, Ramadi, Karbala, Mosul, > Samarra- > > > all of these important centers, even Kirkuk, which once seemed > safe > > > in the hands of the Kurds, have all become no-go zones for the > > > American troops and the small number of Iraqis who dare venture > in to > > > be shot. America is bombing all of these places on an almost > daily > > > basis; thus, antagonizing more and more Iraqis and more Muslims > > > throughout the world. > > > > > > But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said voting might > not > > > be possible in some areas where militants are active and the > violence > > > is too great. > > > > > > "Well, so be it, nothing is perfect in life, so you have an > election > > > that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an > election.? > > > You bet," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rense.com/general57/condf.htm > > > > > > > > > Because the current administration is more concerned with its > image > > > than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: > soldiers > > > are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is > tragic, > > > indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so > willingly > > > sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood > and > > > treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un- > Constitutional. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html > > > > > > Conall > > > > > > and finally a quote from the President > > > > > > "I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us > today. > > > He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn > is > > > with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." > > > G.W. Bush > > > Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List > FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[denis@teachlinux.com]

No, I don't think it could have been, there is not much differance from Iraq today or Germany at the close of WW2. If you can remember back to 91/92 one of the reasons given for not doing it then was not wanting to see another Beirut. Well, now we have to pay that price, and we are paying it. Why is it every time someone comes out with good news from Iraq, it's discounted as Right wing slant? Yet, if CNN puts out some crap thats clearly slanted you guys eat it up as the truth? Denis

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, flaterike wrote: > Ah, the infamous flypaper strategy. > > This, of course, assumes that the number of "bad guys" is a constant. > > It is not, and all indications point towards delta(bad guys) being > positive, and delta(delta(bad guys)) being positive as well, due to > the situation we've created in Iraq. > > This could've been avoided. > > It wasn't. > > But, you know, "staying the course" is clearly the right thing to do, > since things are going so well. > > erik > > > I think you see it wrong.. > > > > 1. We piss of all the bad guys and give them somewhere to > concentrate. > > 2. Now that we have them in one location we are able to kill them. > > > > I would much rather have a known location to kill the bad guys then > waste > > time trying to hunt them down. > > > > Since I don't think you have ever been in the military, I'll assume > you > > never thought of this as a strategy. > > > > Denis > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > > > wrote: > > > > For those who don't trust the government, read this instead. > Its a > > > > cornucopia of good news you never hear about in Iraq from the > > > lying, liberal > > > > media. For the blame/hate America first crowd, don't bother to > > > read it, > > > > your mind is already made up. > > > > > > > > http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610 > > > > > > > > R > > don't expect > > > > it to go unchallenged. > > > > > > The puppet PM of Iraq, Iyad Allawi, his sponsors, President Bush > and > > > VP Dick Cheney are all lying to the American public about the > real > > > situation in Iraq. They say things are getting better, that most > of > > > Iraq could vote in an election tomorrow and that "democracy and > > > freedom will prevail, without a doubt." Nonsense! Out and out > lies. > > > > > > The Sunni Triangle, Sadr City, Najaf, Ramadi, Karbala, Mosul, > Samarra- > > > all of these important centers, even Kirkuk, which once seemed > safe > > > in the hands of the Kurds, have all become no-go zones for the > > > American troops and the small number of Iraqis who dare venture > in to > > > be shot. America is bombing all of these places on an almost > daily > > > basis; thus, antagonizing more and more Iraqis and more Muslims > > > throughout the world. > > > > > > But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said voting might > not > > > be possible in some areas where militants are active and the > violence > > > is too great. > > > > > > "Well, so be it, nothing is perfect in life, so you have an > election > > > that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an > election.? > > > You bet," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rense.com/general57/condf.htm > > > > > > > > > Because the current administration is more concerned with its > image > > > than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: > soldiers > > > are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is > tragic, > > > indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so > willingly > > > sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood > and > > > treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un- > Constitutional. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html > > > > > > Conall > > > > > > and finally a quote from the President > > > > > > "I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us > today. > > > He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn is > > > with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." > > > G.W. Bush > > > Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List > FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[WILLAM GILMORE]

Semper Fi That's the tactics we tried to use in Vietnam and got our ass kicked in more than one major battle -- Hue, Khe Sahn etc. On the other hand we CAP Marine and Civic Action Programs were able to control large areas (AOR's) with only a fraction of the casualties surffered by my 0311 brotherin (grunts). How did it happen? We few non-lifers and non-officers were taught a working knowlege of the Vietnamese lanquage, the customs and culture of the people and most important, we were advised and listened to a platoon of Popular Forces troops who were from the villiages we lived in and protected from a hostile communist takeover. By the way, it was estimated that as many as 1/3 of the 6,000 people in the villiage we lived in were either VC or sympathizers -- yet we only got hit on a few occasions. On the other hand, we young turks made lots of friends and largely behaved like we were taught to behave back home -- with kindness and respect unless we were forced not to. For more info. about CAP Marines find a book titled "The Betrayal" by Lt.Col. William Coroson, U.S.M.C. denis@... wrote: Semper Fi, You don't ned the grunt on the groud to be a strategist, you just need him to understand the mission and be trained well enough to carry it out. The mission is to close with and distroy the enemy. At least be getting the enemy to gather in one location your able to do this, rather then spend your time searching for them. Why do you think we fought some of the battles that we have in the past? Get them where you can hurt them, Denis

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Paul wrote: > Oh Geeze it just had to go down that "you've never been in the > military road". Having spent the most miserable years of my life in > the Marine Corps, in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing, for all > the wrong reasons, I guess I'm qualified to comment. 99% of the > military are not strategists. They just follow orders and believe > what they're told, no matter how absurd it may be. Some of us > (military and ex-military) actually manage to wake up and smell the > coffee and no longer believe it's raining when in fact, we're being > pissed on. I guess I have to apologize for helping to start this > little fracas. I'll go back to having fun with my bike now. > > Paul > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, denis@t... wrote: > > I think you see it wrong.. > > > > 1. We piss of all the bad guys and give them somewhere to > concentrate. > > 2. Now that we have them in one location we are able to kill them. > > > > I would much rather have a known location to kill the bad guys > then waste > > time trying to hunt them down. > > > > Since I don't think you have ever been in the military, I'll > assume you > > never thought of this as a strategy. > > > > Denis > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > > > > wrote: > > > > For those who don't trust the government, read this instead. > Its a > > > > cornucopia of good news you never hear about in Iraq from the > > > lying, liberal > > > > media. For the blame/hate America first crowd, don't bother > to > > > read it, > > > > your mind is already made up. > > > > > > > > http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610 > > > > > > > > R comment, > > > don't expect > > > > it to go unchallenged. > > > > > > The puppet PM of Iraq, Iyad Allawi, his sponsors, President Bush > and > > > VP Dick Cheney are all lying to the American public about the > real > > > situation in Iraq. They say things are getting better, that most > of > > > Iraq could vote in an election tomorrow and that "democracy and > > > freedom will prevail, without a doubt." Nonsense! Out and out > lies. > > > > > > The Sunni Triangle, Sadr City, Najaf, Ramadi, Karbala, Mosul, > Samarra- > > > all of these important centers, even Kirkuk, which once seemed > safe > > > in the hands of the Kurds, have all become no-go zones for the > > > American troops and the small number of Iraqis who dare venture > in to > > > be shot. America is bombing all of these places on an almost > daily > > > basis; thus, antagonizing more and more Iraqis and more Muslims > > > throughout the world. > > > > > > But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said voting might > not > > > be possible in some areas where militants are active and the > violence > > > is too great. > > > > > > "Well, so be it, nothing is perfect in life, so you have an > election > > > that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an > election.? > > > You bet," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rense.com/general57/condf.htm > > > > > > > > > Because the current administration is more concerned with its > image > > > than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: > soldiers > > > are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is > tragic, > > > indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so > willingly > > > sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood > and > > > treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un- > Constitutional. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html > > > > > > Conall > > > > > > and finally a quote from the President > > > > > > "I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us > today. > > > He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn > is > > > with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." > > > G.W. Bush > > > Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List > FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, denis@t... wrote:

> > No, I don't think it could have been, there is not much differance from > Iraq today or Germany at the close of WW2. If you can remember back to > 91/92 one of the reasons given for not doing it then was not wanting to > see another Beirut. Well, now we have to pay that price, and we are paying > it.

I think the main reason for not "finishing the job" on Saddam in '92 was beacuse the elder Bush made a reasoned judgment that pushing to Baghdad would tip the balance of power in the region dramatically in favor of Iran. This is where Bu**sh** falls down in comparison to his father. At least dad gave some consideration to the longer-term consequences of his decisions.

[Russell Scott]

Next thing we are going to hear is that 9/11 was a CIA plot. R DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: NKLR good news in Iraq NKLR Actually I hadn't thought of that strategy, but now that I think about it perhaps the CIA trained Al-Qaeda has baited us into going to the Middle east in much the same manner? Conall

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, denis@t... wrote: > I think you see it wrong.. > > 1. We piss of all the bad guys and give them somewhere to concentrate. > 2. Now that we have them in one location we are able to kill them. > > I would much rather have a known location to kill the bad guys then waste > time trying to hunt them down. > > Since I don't think you have ever been in the military, I'll assume you > never thought of this as a strategy. > > Denis > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Conall wrote: > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > > wrote: > > > For those who don't trust the government, read this instead. Its a > > > cornucopia of good news you never hear about in Iraq from the > > lying, liberal > > > media. For the blame/hate America first crowd, don't bother to > > read it, > > > your mind is already made up. > > > > > > http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610 > > > > > > R > don't expect > > > it to go unchallenged. > > > > The puppet PM of Iraq, Iyad Allawi, his sponsors, President Bush and > > VP Dick Cheney are all lying to the American public about the real > > situation in Iraq. They say things are getting better, that most of > > Iraq could vote in an election tomorrow and that "democracy and > > freedom will prevail, without a doubt." Nonsense! Out and out lies. > > > > The Sunni Triangle, Sadr City, Najaf, Ramadi, Karbala, Mosul, Samarra- > > all of these important centers, even Kirkuk, which once seemed safe > > in the hands of the Kurds, have all become no-go zones for the > > American troops and the small number of Iraqis who dare venture in to > > be shot. America is bombing all of these places on an almost daily > > basis; thus, antagonizing more and more Iraqis and more Muslims > > throughout the world. > > > > But US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said voting might not > > be possible in some areas where militants are active and the violence > > is too great. > > > > "Well, so be it, nothing is perfect in life, so you have an election > > that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an election.? > > You bet," he said. > > > > > > > > http://www.rense.com/general57/condf.htm > > > > > > Because the current administration is more concerned with its image > > than it is with reality, it prefers symbolism to substance: soldiers > > are dying here and being maimed and crippled for life. It is tragic, > > indeed criminal that our elected public servants would so willingly > > sacrifice our nation's prestige and honor as well as the blood and > > treasure to pursue an agenda that is ahistoric and un- Constitutional. > > > > > > > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/lorentz1.html > > > > Conall > > > > and finally a quote from the President > > > > "I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us today. > > He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn is > > with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." > > G.W. Bush > > Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links

[Dirk Beer]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Russell Scott wrote:

> > R wondered where Satan was headquartered.

Here is another hint: http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/S-BushSatan2004.jpg Dirk

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:

> Next thing we are going to hear is that 9/11 was a CIA plot.

It might as well have been. Best thing that could have happened for his presidency.

[Mike Frey]

I think I'll probably ride my KLR this weekend. Looks like great weather for it here in PA. How 'bout the rest of you folks?

[WILLAM GILMORE]

Yea -- I just hope the weather holds. I'm going to do a good bit of riding too. Think I'll jaunt over to the Kerry - Edwards Campaign Headquarters tomorrrow followed by a quick run to one of the Madison neighborhoods on the other side of town to help register voters. Next, maybe I'll oil my chain for a longer ride to hear Ann Richards speak at a rally for Kerry being held in Milwaukee. Finally, I's sure glad I bought that Wolfman tank bag -- it holds almost all the campaign literature I care to haul around. I agree about all that political stuff -- it's just a waste of time to go on and on about the same old crapola. Mike Frey wrote: I think I'll probably ride my KLR this weekend. Looks like great weather for it here in PA. How 'bout the rest of you folks? List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]