xtreme international ice racing nklr

DSN_KLR650
aminion16
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:38 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by aminion16 » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:38 pm

"That Guy" from the "other list" has posted another chart, a followup, and a summary of sorts... http://www.patmanracing.com/klrdyno.htm --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, bigfatgreenbike wrote:
> > > troy.jenison@m... wrote: > > >The other thing about a dyno is that it is only measuring wide-
open throttle which doesn't necessarily tell everything about how the engine performs under other throttle conditions,
> > > Actually with a CV carb it does test more than WOT. The throttle
opens
> as fast as the slide can rise. You're thinking of a Roundslide
maybe?
> > > which happens to be important. A dyno is only a baseline to how
the engine performs, it doesn't tell you everything about how well the engine "works" under actual conditions.
> > > Very true. > > > > >I also agree that improved throttle response != more power, but if
you don't think it is really important you probably don't do much off- road riding.
> > > > For a while I had a Mikuni roundslide on my A15. I might go back to
it,
> for the instant throttle response. It actually dynoed with LESS
power,
> but it was much better offroad. I took it off because I got annoyed
with
> the heavy throttle action. I don't know how many coils I can safely
cut
> out of the return spring. > > -- > Devon > Brooklyn, NY > > A15-Z '01 KLR650 > '81 SR500 cafe racer > > "The truth's not too popular these days....." > > Arnold Schwarzenneger, in The Running Man

Zachariah Mully
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 7:50 am

more fuel for the fire.

Post by Zachariah Mully » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:10 pm

Jenison, Troy wrote:
> I agree that making 40+ HP is not likely without a lot of work, but I > wouldn't say these modification are a waste of time. If you look at > the dyno charts you'll see that the peak hp increased by only a > couple of hp, but the power is increased pretty much across the rpm > spectrum.
I never meant to say that they were a waste of time or money, but it takes a lot more time and money to do it properly (as the gentleman in question has) than most anyone actually has... All I'm saying that without the numbers to back up one's assertion, it's exactly that, an unsubstantiated postulation. And that the money is most certainely more wisely spent elsewhere.
> I also agree that improved throttle response != more power, but if > you don't think it is really important you probably don't do much > off-road riding. > > Regards, Troy
No, I do plenty of off-roading and I'm nearly always the limiting factor. The KLR's limiting factor isn't it's throttle response or horsepower (actually it's an advantage often), but the lack of modern suspension... Sure it'd help, but I don't think I've been anywhere offroad on my KLR where I'd take $500 of exhaust/airbox mods over $500 of suspension mods. I would take my stock engined/exhaust/airbox/carb A12X over a massaged engined KLR any day of the week, I would certainely rather have the KLX front suspension and brakes, 55mpg and dead reliability. I'd even take a stock engined KLR with cheap suspension mods (new springs, oil, perhaps fork brace and racetech treatement) over a KLR with a BigGuano, K&N, DJ kit, modded airbox and other trickery. Hang around the list long enough and you'll find that most of the oldskool listers have reverted in all or part back to stock configurations. The $$/mileage/reliability trade-offs aren't worth it. Perhaps the question should be: "If you only had $500 to spend on modifications to your KLR (not including luggage and the like) what would they be?" I bet nobody includes an exhaust in that list. Z

kdxkawboy@aol.com
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:59 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by kdxkawboy@aol.com » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:08 pm

In a message dated 2004-01-13 10:13:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, troy.jenison@... writes:
> > > With a CV carb on the dyno, you're right the slide may not be all the way at > the top for all rpms. But, the throttle is wide-open during the test, (i.e. > the butterfly is completely open) if the person running the test is doing it > right. At any rate, it should only be when you first whack the throttle at > low rpms during the dyno run the slide won't be at max open. > >
Lets also remember that for most commercially available dynometers, if you try to tune your carb based on dyno figures more often than not you will have a bike that is jetted to rich for the street. Second, its rare that a carb setup alone is going to produce enough of a change to push the readings outside the dyno's margin for error and until you get the difference between two readings outside of the margin for error you really have nothing that you can go by in making real comparisons. And with most dynos where you rent time it will be rare to find that the owner has spent the time and money to make sure the dyno is calibrated for the daily changes in temperature, air pressure and humidity - this is usually left for the customer to pay for if the customer wants exact results. Failure to do the calibration increases the margin for error. All you have to do is attend a couple of drag races to realize how the weather effects engine performance and to get honest readings from a dyno it has to be calibrated to compensate out these differences so you have true apples to apples comparisons when looking at different data runs. Operating in that imprecise environment the only way to determine if there is any real difference between the setups is to make enough runs, without enough different bikes so as to have sufficient data to make a statistical call based on a quantifiable difference in means, averages, or variation between the two sets of data. The basis for such a test would start by stating the hypothesis that the opened air box/modified carb/aftermarket exhaust will make no difference. If this hypothesis is true then statistics tell us if we take an adequate number of samples we will have a mean, average and variance that we can compare to prove there was no difference. Then, using statistics for the stock bike, you calculate a margin of error for comparing the mean, average, variance. If the results of the before and after sets of data have a mean, average, variance that falls within the margin for error you accept the hypothesis. If the after data has a mean, average, variance outside this margin of error then you can conclude that there was a difference. The lsat thing to consider, once the margin of error hs been calculated, it is tweaked to provide your confidence rating in you conclusion. Typically this means after calculating the margin for error you increase it to the point that if the after results exceed this value then you can by 95% confident that your statistical test has proven something that can be applied to the real world. And here is some additional food for thought. Horsepower is not measured, it calculated. It is the mathematical product of the rpm and torque at that rpm. You can understand just what that horsepower will feel like by taking a good look at the torque curve. The steepest part of the torque curve is where the meat of the engine lives - the steeper the curve the harder the hit. As the torque curve flattens out the engine starts producing less horsepower for each step increase in rpm - typically this would be a good shift point to get your best acceleration. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bigfatgreenbike@netscape.net
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:56 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by bigfatgreenbike@netscape.net » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:51 am

"Jenison, Troy" wrote:>
>A friend of mine also put a cable slide Mikuni on his bike for better throttle response and he said it was an improvement. He thinking of converting it back since CV carbs, because of their design, have some built in altitude jetting compensation.
I got tired of messing with the idle mixture every time the weather changed significantly. Also no overrun enrichener, so it pops like crazy on a closed throttle (this I didn't mind so much). He lives in Colorado so this is important. Have you tried drilling out the slide to 1/8", it made a significant difference in throttle response on my bike? I've had a drilled slide with stock jetting, a drilled slide with the KLX needle, and just installed the actual stage 1 jet kit. -- Brooklyn '01 A15-Z KLR650 '81 SR500 __________________________________________________________________ New! Unlimited Netscape Internet Service. Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Act now to get a personalized email address! Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

rm@richardmay.net
Posts: 509
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:30 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by rm@richardmay.net » Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:03 pm

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Dan Bittner wrote:
>>The miniscule boost in peak HP was expected but I do like the boost in >>low-end torque in the last run. Was it worth the money he spent? No >>chance in hell. >Are you kidding? A ten percent gain in torque in the mid range and a bike >thats a WHOLE lot nicer to ride. Mabey not worth it to you, worth every >penny to me. And I'd bet that any of the guys out there riding well tuned >KLR's that are on the list would agree. But thats ok, you can ride behind >us any time.
Each to his own, I reckon. I do know that the money spent on a pipe, filter, and jet kit will darn sure buy some new springs and maybe even get the shock refilled with a heavier oil. They guy with that setup will beat the stock-suspendered 39.9hp KLR every time. RM

Dan Bittner
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:28 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by Dan Bittner » Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:49 pm

----- Original Message ----- From: Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] More fuel for the fire. > > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Dan Bittner wrote: > >Are you kidding? A ten percent gain in torque in the mid range and a bike > >thats a WHOLE lot nicer to ride. Mabey not worth it to you, worth every > >penny to me. And I'd bet that any of the guys out there riding well tuned > >KLR's that are on the list would agree. But thats ok, you can ride behind > >us any time. > > Each to his own, I reckon. I do know that the money spent on a pipe, > filter, and jet kit will darn sure buy some new springs and maybe even get > the shock refilled with a heavier oil. They guy with that setup will beat > the stock-suspendered 39.9hp KLR every time. > > RM No argument from me on your point there, RM. For someone that has a limited budget for mods, first thing I would recommend to improve would be the suspension, in particular those front springs that made me feel like I was going over the handlebars when I'd get into the front brake hard, of course hard breaking being a relative term with the stock KLR front brake. That'd be my second recommendation for improvement. Brakes. As for the improvement in mid range torque and driveability from the other mods, versus cost, you're right again, to each his own. Ride your own ride. Dan Bittner Sacramento A16 03 YZF 600

kdxkawboy@aol.com
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:59 pm

more fuel for the fire.

Post by kdxkawboy@aol.com » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:56 pm

In a message dated 2004-01-18 12:05:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, rm@... writes:
> > Each to his own, I reckon. I do know that the money spent on a pipe, > filter, and jet kit will darn sure buy some new springs and maybe even get > the shock refilled with a heavier oil. They guy with that setup will beat > the stock-suspendered 39.9hp KLR every time. > > RM > >
But, why not have it all? Got both sets of mods, plus many more. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike T
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:10 pm

xtreme international ice racing nklr

Post by Mike T » Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:29 pm

Mankind will find ways to straddle life. The bikes are way beyond what I flat-tracked with! Mike T A16 Las Vegas
> -----Original Message----- > From: klr_a4 [mailto:klr650dotcc@...] > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:24 PM > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Xtreme International Ice Racing NKLR > > Sounds pretty wild...It's engine is equivalent to a 1200 cc crotch > rocket engine in a mountain bike frame, 4-stroke, 4-valve engine that > runs on nitrol methanol. An ice speedway bike has a maximum 14,000 > revs. It has 1600 razor-sharp steel studs on it's tires and if that's > not enough - there aren't any brakes. > > The power(90 horse power at the back wheel) to weight ratio (the > bikes weigh only 180 pounds) is something that cannot be explained. > > Each rider gears his bike differently with 60 to 80 tooth sprockets, > which are nearly the size of the wheel itself. > > In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Kelley Kinser > wrote: > > I recently attended an indoor ice racing event in > > Everett, Wa. which included motorcycles, quads > > and go-karts. It was a lot of fun to watch. I > > can't remember what organization sponsors the > > series that the event was a part of. > > > > Kelley......... > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ > courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_klr650/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

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