shaft drive and countersteering big time nklr

[Gary Scheffen]

I had similar results in reasonable temps, it turned out to be the battery. Unlike a car the KLR will turn over when the battery is low, but not enough to overcome the compression release (I think at something like 500 rpm)and therefore the engine just spins and maybe fires a little bit. Changing the battery made the bike idle much smoother too. -----Original Message----- From: billshel2003 [mailto:billshel@...] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:24 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Hard start in cold weather Tried to start the KLR 650 today, hadn't been run in about three weeks, and the temperature has been below freezing for about a week (2200 ft in Vermont). Full choke, no throttle, it would just barely fire but not start, it would chug along with the starter. If I gave it any throttle it wouldn't fire. Eventually, it did start, just when it was noticeable that the battery was losing it. I haven't done the pilot screw (?) adjustment, the one on the bottom of the carb where you have to drill to get to it. I think I have read where people call it the "pilot idle mixture", if this is true then maybe a little richer on the idle would do the trick starting it in the cold, plus maybe improve performance overall? Any input/info would be greatly appreciated. Also, saw the Corbin bike show on Speedvision channel, did a segment on the Battery Tender, I think I will get one since I want to keep the bike running all winter (ride on those balmy 20F days rather than winterize it). I saw a thread a while ago on the Battery Tender, any comments again? Finally, the bike handled like a greased pig in the hard pack (snow). IRC GP110's front (15psi) and rear (15psi). I guess I need studs. Bill List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Devon]

gary@... wrote:

>I had similar results in reasonable temps, it turned out to be the battery. Unlike a car the KLR will turn over when the battery is low, but not enough to overcome the compression release (I think at something like 500 rpm)and therefore the engine just spins and maybe fires a little bit. > > Changing the battery made the bike idle much smoother too. > >

Which is odd, because the KLR ignition is completely independent of the battery. What else did you do? Fresh gas, was the bike warmer because it was inside while you changed the battery? Devon

[Jeff Saline]

Bill, I've been doing a little reading and studying of the Keihin CVK40 carb design and operation. This carb uses vacuum to suck the fuel from the bowl to the carb throat when you have the choke on. If the throttle butterfly is opened, even a little bit, the vacuum is reduced and also the fuel amount that gets sucked into the engine. There by reducing or eliminating the effectiveness of the choke. So if you're using the choke to start the engine you should keep the throttle closed. The carb also has an accelerator pump. If you twist the throttle a couple or three times before you try to start the bike you'll inject a bit of fuel into the carb throat. Then when you crank the bike the fuel can get sucked into the engine to help it fire. If you drained the carb before storing the bike you'll have to make sure you have fuel in the carb bowl before any of these systems will be effective. I almost always turn the fuel off about 1/4 mile from my house so the carb bowl is partially drained. Seems the bike will kick over for me with in about 2 seconds of cranking if I use the accelerator pump three times, full choke and crank with the throttle closed. Best, Jeff Saline Airhead # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota '75 R90/6, '03 KLR650, '79 R100RT, '00 H-D MT-500

[Devon]

salinej1@... wrote:

>The carb also has an accelerator pump. >

No, the CV-40 that is fitted to Harleys has an accelerator pump. The CVK-40 fitted to the KLR does not have an accelerator pump. Twisting the throttle will do nothing without the engine cranking, and twisting it while you crank will disable the choke. Some bikes, like the stock carb on my SR500, have a vacuum-operated valve that shuts off the accelerator pump when the motor isn't running. That way some inconsiderate jackass can't flood your motor while he pretends to ride your parked bike. Stuffing a glove into the airbox port would help- it would give you a vacuum (and thus fuel) at every port in the carb. Same thing a traditional choke plate does. Never needed to try it. The Urals apparantly have shutters on the airbox that are supposed to be in a certain position for cold starting. Devon

[Jeff Saline]

Devon wrote: No, the CV-40 that is fitted to Harleys has an accelerator pump. The CVK-40 fitted to the KLR does not have an accelerator pump.

>>>>>>>>SNIP

Devon, You're right. Thanks for correcting me. I had been reading some about the CV-40 used on a bunch of Harley's too. I thought I'd read somewhere that the difference was Kawasaki put the "K" on the carb body they use. Obviously it's more than that. I remember the accelerator pump from the 00 883 I had. It worked well. Best, Jeff Saline Airhead # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota '75 R90/6, '03 KLR650, '79 R100RT, '00 H-D MT-500

[Lujo Bauer]

While I believe this to be true in principle for bikes without alternators, according to my voltmeter my KLR usually produces over 12.75 volts at idle. -Lujo

> Idling a motorcycle does not charge the battery at all. It might if you > shut off every single light bulb and turned the idle up to 2000rpm but > that's just silly.

[Devon]

That's most likely your battery supplying the 12.75 volts, and not the alternator. The voltage you read at idle won't drop much until you run the battery down a bit. And if you want to charge the battery, you need 13.8-14.5volts. Of the five bikes I've had, four had AC magnetos (like the KLR) and one had a regular excited-field alternator. None of them charged worth a damn unless you hit the highway for 1/2 hour at least. Devon lbauer@... wrote:

>While I believe this to be true in principle for bikes without >alternators, according to my voltmeter my KLR usually produces over >12.75 volts at idle. > >-Lujo > > > >>Idling a motorcycle does not charge the battery at all. It might if you >>shut off every single light bulb and turned the idle up to 2000rpm but >>that's just silly. >> >> > > >

[Barnaby Robson]

That's why I keep myself in low gears around town ... Reason 1) It forces me to keep my speed low which means I might have a chance of survival . and 2) I can be sure that the battery has a chance of being charged with the revs up high. barnaby -----Original Message----- From: Devon [mailto:bigfatgreenbike@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:27 AM To: KLR650 group Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Hard start in cold weather None of them charged worth a damn unless you hit the highway for 1/2 hour at least. Devon .

[Gary Scheffen]

I believe the ignition draws from the battery a bit when it is at low idle, ie it'll probably run without a battery just not well. In a car if you have a bad alternator the it will run off the battery, until you are driving with dim headlights in 3 feet of snow in Vermont on a Sunday when the parts store is closed, but that's another story... because motorcycles have tiny charging systems they barely put out enough at idle so the battery supplements the system. The reason I am sure this was the problem: at the time I was practice riding for my NJ motorcycle test and before the new battery I had an extremely difficult time navigating cones, as soon as I put on I was able to snake through them everytime no problem. Over 1000 miles later battery is still charged so the charging system is fine. -----Original Message----- From: Devon [mailto:bigfatgreenbike@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:20 PM To: KLR650 group Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Hard start in cold weather gary@... wrote:

>I had similar results in reasonable temps, it turned out to be the battery. Unlike a car the KLR will turn over when the battery is low, but not enough to overcome the compression release (I think at something like 500 rpm)and therefore the engine just spins and maybe fires a little bit. > > Changing the battery made the bike idle much smoother too. > >

Which is odd, because the KLR ignition is completely independent of the battery. What else did you do? Fresh gas, was the bike warmer because it was inside while you changed the battery? Devon List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Devon]

gary@... wrote:

>I believe the ignition draws from the battery a bit when it is at low idle, ie it'll probably run without a battery just not well. >

The KLR ignition is powered entirely by two windings on the stator that are completely separate from the three windings for the charging system. The two systems aren't connected. Maybe a fresh battery spun the motor faster and it started more easily.

>In a car if you have a bad alternator it will run off the battery, until you are driving with dim headlights in 3 feet of snow in Vermont on a Sunday when the parts store is closed, but that's another story... >

Yes, but cars have points ignition, or the modern transistorized version of it. This uses battery power to constantly energize the ignition, until the points open (or the transistor shuts it off), collapsing the field and causing a spark. Many bikes have the same system. I had one which had the lovely quirk of happily cranking away with a battery too low to power the ignition computer. KLRs, SR500s, DRZ400s, and many dirtbikes or dirtbike-based bikes have CDI/magneto ignition, where the ignition is unpowered until the CDI fires, creating and collapsing the field and generating a spark. The CDI is powered by the dedicated ignition windings. Devon