pasta burners? nklr

[imperial-4776@webtv.net]

I'm an x-purt rider, and I'm pritty darn good at sphelin too !!! Dave, going to buy a GS so I can hang out with the others

[bkowalca]

I have to disagree. Many of the trails, if not most that I take the KLR down would physically be impossible on a GS1100. Try to get 600lbs over a 12" log or through rutted trails with two cylinders getting wedged into the dirt. I have ridden with a good rider on a GS but anything more tight than wide dual track and the bike was in big trouble. Throw some sand or mud into the equation and it is a no go. Bryan K A14 http://www.odsc.on.ca --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" wrote:

> I've said it before and I'll say it again: it ain't the bike, it's > the rider. An expert rider on a GS will go anywhere most of us

here

> can go on our KLRs, except maybe mud. If you're not an expert

rider,

> buy the KLR and you'll have a lot more fun in the dirt. If you are

an

> expert and don't mind muscling around the extra weight, buy the GS > and you'll have a lot more fun and comfort on the inevitable

highway

> stretches. > > __Arden > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > dmtullis@y... writes: > > > > > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the

both

> BMW GS1100 > > > and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering

buying

> a 2002 KLR > > > but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly

for

> sale for > > > around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and

off

> road riding, DS > > > rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two- > up. I have no > > > experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying

to

> sway him in > > > that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are

both

> great bikes, > > > and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for > those on the > > > list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share > your wisdom. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Mark T. A12 > > > > > > Portland, OR > > > > > > > In my mind here is the big difference - > > > > I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two of > which where > > BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR,

complete

> with panniers > > and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it over > Imogene, Black > > Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer

Ophir,

> the easiest > > of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through the > tougher spots > > and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir. With

the

> clear fact > > staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions that

the

> BMW GS was > > an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that 1st > was just too > > tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept wandering. > > > > The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan to > spend all your > > time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If the

dirt

> gets any > > nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a 21" > front wheel > > made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you are

on

> a GS and > > want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of

friends

> along because > > sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS

though

> the > > rougher stuff. > > > > Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the Colorado > Rockies while > > I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies on

the

> tour I > > never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to average

about

> 50 miles of > > off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or > rougher than > > Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or the FS > for that matter, > > would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you want

to

> really take > > the bike off road. > > > > Pat > > G'ville, Nv > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tumu Rock]

There's ALWAYS a different line than the one the guy in front of you took...for better or worse. On the Alcan a couple of the guys took the big GS Adventure on some fairly technical sections. Not mind bogglingly tight but pretty impressive with those behemoths. Meanwhile I was just having a blast on my KLR... dat brooklyn bum (and a bike is rarely in big trouble...that's a rider's job!) --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "bkowalca" wrote:

> I have to disagree. Many of the trails, if not most that I take the > KLR down would physically be impossible on a GS1100. Try to get > 600lbs over a 12" log or through rutted trails with two cylinders > getting wedged into the dirt. I have ridden with a good rider on a > GS but anything more tight than wide dual track and the bike was in > big trouble. Throw some sand or mud into the equation and it is a

no

> go. > > Bryan K > A14 > http://www.odsc.on.ca > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" > wrote: > > I've said it before and I'll say it again: it ain't the bike,

it's

> > the rider. An expert rider on a GS will go anywhere most of us > here > > can go on our KLRs, except maybe mud. If you're not an expert > rider, > > buy the KLR and you'll have a lot more fun in the dirt. If you

are

> an > > expert and don't mind muscling around the extra weight, buy the

GS

> > and you'll have a lot more fun and comfort on the inevitable > highway > > stretches. > > > > __Arden > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote: > > > In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > dmtullis@y... writes: > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the > both > > BMW GS1100 > > > > and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering > buying > > a 2002 KLR > > > > but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly > for > > sale for > > > > around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and > off > > road riding, DS > > > > rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two- > > up. I have no > > > > experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying > to > > sway him in > > > > that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are > both > > great bikes, > > > > and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But

for

> > those on the > > > > list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could

share

> > your wisdom. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Mark T. A12 > > > > > > > > Portland, OR > > > > > > > > > > In my mind here is the big difference - > > > > > > I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two of > > which where > > > BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR, > complete > > with panniers > > > and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it over > > Imogene, Black > > > Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer > Ophir, > > the easiest > > > of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through the > > tougher spots > > > and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir. With > the > > clear fact > > > staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions that > the > > BMW GS was > > > an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that

1st

> > was just too > > > tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept wandering. > > > > > > The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan to > > spend all your > > > time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If the > dirt > > gets any > > > nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a 21" > > front wheel > > > made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you

are

> on > > a GS and > > > want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of > friends > > along because > > > sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS > though > > the > > > rougher stuff. > > > > > > Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the Colorado > > Rockies while > > > I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies on > the > > tour I > > > never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to average > about > > 50 miles of > > > off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or > > rougher than > > > Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or the

FS

> > for that matter, > > > would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you

want

> to > > really take > > > the bike off road. > > > > > > Pat > > > G'ville, Nv > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[bkowalca]

I really don't want to start a big fight here, but I want people to know that the KLR can physically go many more places than a GS Adventure could ever dream of going. Yes, there somethimes is an another line through a section but that is ususally a bypass on a road. If I wanted to take the road, I wouldn't be riding a dirt capable bike. As for mud, up here there is almost no trails without some interesting mud to play in. For a fun look at the awesome 200km ride I did last weekend see: http://www.odsc.on.ca/madd.wmv This was an optional difficult section but most of the ride was an intermeadiate level, knobbies manditory. Would a GS make it on that ride? I don't think so, I had a hard time getting my handlebars through some sections, there was some tricky hill climbs and the beaver dam crossing was a gamble. The GS would not have the ground clearance, turning radius or narrow width to get through, not to mention I had to turn the bike around on the trail a couple of times. Bryan K A14 --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Tumu Rock" wrote:

> There's ALWAYS a different line than the one the guy in front of

you

> took...for better or worse. On the Alcan a couple of the guys took > the big GS Adventure on some fairly technical sections. Not mind > bogglingly tight but pretty impressive with those behemoths. > Meanwhile I was just having a blast on my KLR... > > dat brooklyn bum (and a bike is rarely in big trouble...that's a > rider's job!) > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "bkowalca" > wrote: > > I have to disagree. Many of the trails, if not most that I take

the

> > KLR down would physically be impossible on a GS1100. Try to get > > 600lbs over a 12" log or through rutted trails with two

cylinders

> > getting wedged into the dirt. I have ridden with a good rider on

a

> > GS but anything more tight than wide dual track and the bike was

in

> > big trouble. Throw some sand or mud into the equation and it is

a

> no > > go. > > > > Bryan K > > A14 > > http://www.odsc.on.ca > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" > > wrote: > > > I've said it before and I'll say it again: it ain't the bike, > it's > > > the rider. An expert rider on a GS will go anywhere most of us > > here > > > can go on our KLRs, except maybe mud. If you're not an expert > > rider, > > > buy the KLR and you'll have a lot more fun in the dirt. If you > are > > an > > > expert and don't mind muscling around the extra weight, buy

the

> GS > > > and you'll have a lot more fun and comfort on the inevitable > > highway > > > stretches. > > > > > > __Arden > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight

Time,

> > > > dmtullis@y... writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with

the

> > both > > > BMW GS1100 > > > > > and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering > > buying > > > a 2002 KLR > > > > > but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is

newly

> > for > > > sale for > > > > > around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on

and

> > off > > > road riding, DS > > > > > rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of

two-

> > > up. I have no > > > > > experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been

trying

> > to > > > sway him in > > > > > that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are > > both > > > great bikes, > > > > > and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But > for > > > those on the > > > > > list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could > share > > > your wisdom. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Mark T. A12 > > > > > > > > > > Portland, OR > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my mind here is the big difference - > > > > > > > > I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two

of

> > > which where > > > > BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR, > > complete > > > with panniers > > > > and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it

over

> > > Imogene, Black > > > > Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer > > Ophir, > > > the easiest > > > > of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through

the

> > > tougher spots > > > > and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir.

With

> > the > > > clear fact > > > > staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions

that

> > the > > > BMW GS was > > > > an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that > 1st > > > was just too > > > > tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept

wandering.

> > > > > > > > The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan

to

> > > spend all your > > > > time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If

the

> > dirt > > > gets any > > > > nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a

21"

> > > front wheel > > > > made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you > are > > on > > > a GS and > > > > want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of > > friends > > > along because > > > > sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS > > though > > > the > > > > rougher stuff. > > > > > > > > Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the

Colorado

> > > Rockies while > > > > I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies

on

> > the > > > tour I > > > > never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to

average

> > about > > > 50 miles of > > > > off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or > > > rougher than > > > > Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or

the

> FS > > > for that matter, > > > > would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you > want > > to > > > really take > > > > the bike off road. > > > > > > > > Pat > > > > G'ville, Nv > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[imperial-4776@webtv.net]

"A KLR can go to places a GS can't" ? Hmmm, yet to see a KLR on the Dakar ... but have seen many GS's powering their way through. I saw Coach, (Coach being a bloke in Oregon" riding his GS around a moto X track. Sure he didn't get much air, sure he was over taken by much smaller lighter bikes, but still he rode that course all morning long. As Arden, said, a lot of it has to do with the riders skill level, and of course the bikes physics too. I don't ride a GS, but don't see why folks are always knocking GS's. Dave BMW salesman :-) joking Oregon

[Tumu Rock]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "bkowalca" wrote:

> I really don't want to start a big fight here, but I want people to > know that the KLR can physically go many more places than a GS > Adventure could ever dream of going.

Are you trying to imply that a GS 11XX isn't a good woods weapon? What are you smoking man?!!?? Properly set up, all that horsepower will smoke a measly KLR in the tight trees...as long as you don't mind the fact that you can't wheelie or countersteer. dat brooklyn bum ;')

[imperial-4776@webtv.net]

Devon, Nascar is not a sport I follow, so have no comment. As for you riding rock gardens and tight trails, cool, but as I stated alot of it depends on the physics of the bike if the bike is too wide to get through an area, then the bike is too wide period. As for Kawi not spending money on the Dakar. Thats not my fault, at least BMW / KTM do, so we as spectators have something to watch, if we so choose. As for running down Coach, concerning the Alcan Rally. ..... Way too go !!!!! .. I'll pass on that he needs to contact you for some riding lessons. Dave Oregon

[ron criswell]

I guess because we see the BMW ad's with a guy blasting through sand or water and all the squids believe it. Amazing the power of hype and advertising. And thinking the more money you spend is better. Just don't ever drop that pig when you are alone. Criswell imperial-4776@... wrote:

> "A KLR can go to places a GS can't" ? > > Hmmm, yet to see a KLR on the Dakar ... but have seen many GS's powering > their way through. > > I saw Coach, (Coach being a bloke in Oregon" riding his GS around a moto > X track. Sure he didn't get much air, sure he was over taken by much > smaller lighter bikes, but still he rode that course all morning long. > > As Arden, said, a lot of it has to do with the riders skill level, and > of course the bikes physics too. > > I don't ride a GS, but don't see why folks are always knocking GS's. > > Dave > BMW salesman :-) joking > Oregon > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Peter Dahlheimer, MD]

I dropped my big pig alone in deep sand in rabbit valley, Colorado, last week. I was a little overambitious. It doesn't like deep sand that much. Anyway, i was able to pick it up myself. It actually wasn't even as difficult as i expected. To each his own. I am perfectly confident i could do the stuff shown in that advertisement on my GSA. Heck, i've done similar, just not that much water around here. I am also perfectly confident there are tons of places around here where i wouldn't want to take that bike. That's why i have dirt bikes. But in my opinion big dual sports have more advantages than being able to ride on the dirt. It is very comfortable on gravel and jeep roads. It is even more fun on potholed, twisty, gnarly (Colorado) roads, where i would be much less comfortable with a dedicated street bike. The only other bike i've had nearly that much fun on the street with was my klr but alas, the GSA is even better. -----Original Message----- From: ron criswell [mailto:ron.criswell@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 11:47 AM To: imperial-4776@... Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: KLR650 vs GS1100 I guess because we see the BMW ad's with a guy blasting through sand or water and all the squids believe it. Amazing the power of hype and advertising. And thinking the more money you spend is better. Just don't ever drop that pig when you are alone. Criswell imperial-4776@... wrote:

> "A KLR can go to places a GS can't" ? >

[Devon Jarvis]

"Peter Dahlheimer, MD" wrote:

> I am perfectly confident i could do the stuff shown in > that advertisement on my GS

I think that anyone with nerve, skill, and the tolerance for riding a bike covered in dings and scrapes could take a GS anywhere the cylinders will fit in between. A couple of spare rocker covers in the backpack and a monster bash plate.... But like the KLR, definitely bring friends. Righting a bike dropped in deep sand isn't too bad, but there are mud holes that can swallow bikes of any size. If you can't go around it or over it, and through it doesn't work out, you'll have to bodily lift the bike out of the mud. The weight of a GS + suction could easily take four guys. Devon -- "It's a troublesome world, all the people who are in it, are troubled with troubles almost every minute" Dr. Seuss