re[2]: [dsn_klr650] tubeless tire update and tubeliss insert

[achesley43@ymail.com]

Okay, I have a strange one I notice yesterday. Been having a little surge which adding choke and making sure the chain was not too loose didn't help so figured it was electrical. Put on my old Garmin 276C witch has voltage read out.  I remember running a steady 14+ volts at highway speeds years back but today when I was looking at the voltage, it was running about 13.5 at 55 mph. When I slowed for a corner or stop sign ,. voltage would jump up to 14.1 or so and drop back down to anywheres from 13.8 to 13.5 when getting back up to speed. I even done a few trial runs to 80 mph for a bit to check. 13.4 at one time. Now the kicker. I did the hi beam and the voltage jumped up from 13.6 to 13.9 and dropped back down on low beam. Then for grins, at 50 mph and a voltage reading of about 13.6 at that time, I applied the brakes just enough to have the brake light come on. Vola , 14.1 volts dropping back to 13.6 area when releasing so light would be off.  Anyone with ideas??? Or, had this happen?  I'm gonna put the bike on the bench Monday and go though the electrical system from A to Z on all connections and inspect wiring for worn spots or the like. ' I even run this tank of gas to 260 miles yesterday without going to reserve. Amazing! Regular Ethanol but don't remember the brand. Just needed gas at the time. 

[landsail]

Your voltage will vary on load at any given time and rpm. I have a 5 in 1 voltmeter on my 07 KLR and with a Gerbing jacket liner on, Rigid aux lights, and 80/100 watt headlight, slightly lower than 13 volts at idle depending on the time since starting. At any rpm above idle with my higher output Ricky Stator, I see a well regulated 13.8 to 14.3 . Normally the battery will see a higher voltage from the regulator for a while after starting until back up to 100. % charge. Some with lots of accessories, try a Suzuki c50 voltage regulator that as a MOSFET device deliver 1 volt higher output in a portion of the battery charge process. I have one from eBay and will report back on that experiment.

[achesley43@ymail.com]

But go to a lower voltage at higher rpm with same load? And come back to Higher voltage when slowing down? Never had that before. But, I put the bike on the lift and took the seat off and checked connects there. No problem. Hooked up my Fluke and fire it up. Stays a constant 14.1 volts from 2000 to 6000 rpm. Run it till the fan was working lots to keep it cool just in case it was a temp problem with something. Nada. 

When I go back together with it will do some alligator clips to see what happen s with brake lights and bright lights. Fixing to pull the carb next to fix broke choke assy.  Plus, put manual valve on the gas tank.  Did hear a whistling noise from the gas tank when things were pretty hot. Vent in cap had partially plugged so cleared that out.  Plus , I'll run the Garmin on the Bandit and check if it's just not that unit.  

[Fred Hink]

A bad regulator will cause the voltage to drop as rpms increase.  You might check your grounds at the regulator. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: Vairing Voltage.    

But go to a lower voltage at higher rpm with same load? And come back to Higher voltage when slowing down? Never had that before. But, I put the bike on the lift and took the seat off and checked connects there. No problem. Hooked up my Fluke and fire it up. Stays a constant 14.1 volts from 2000 to 6000 rpm. Run it till the fan was working lots to keep it cool just in case it was a temp problem with something. Nada.  When I go back together with it will do some alligator clips to see what happen s with brake lights and bright lights. Fixing to pull the carb next to fix broke choke assy.  Plus, put manual valve on the gas tank.  Did hear a whistling noise from the gas tank when things were pretty hot. Vent in cap had partially plugged so cleared that out.  Plus , I'll run the Garmin on the Bandit and check if it's just not that unit. 

[jet_doctor2002]

The stock voltage regulator on a KLR is  rudimentary device that wastes a lot of power.  The Shindengen FH020 is a great replacement.  I got mine here  http://www.roadstercycle.com/.There are articles regarding installation but it is straight forward.  I recall that the KLR has an extra wire that is not used.  Get the plug and terminals when ordering the regulator.The Shindengen Mosfet regulators are much more efficient and do not turn as much power into heat, so it is kind of like a power upgrade.A battery that is shorting internally will also cause voltage fluctuations.Cheers,Doug Walker

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-1524422645 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-1524422645cite { PADDING-LEFT:10px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 BLOCKQUOTE.ygrps-yiv-1524422645cite2 { PADDING-TOP:0px;PADDING-LEFT:10px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;MARGIN-TOP:3px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 .ygrps-yiv-1524422645plain PRE { FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 .ygrps-yiv-1524422645plain TT { FONT-SIZE:100%;FONT-FAMILY:monospace;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 #ygrps-yiv-15244226453422935534a1411588e1dc91e068ba0c #ygrps-yiv-15244226452b1cf6045431494595d00c794286d42e { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 .ygrps-yiv-1524422645plain PRE { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 .ygrps-yiv-1524422645plain TT { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} #ygrps-yiv-1524422645 { FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} You may wish to download the wiring diagrams which I linked a while ago..   That's dumb of me, why not simply post them again rather than sending you on a search...face palm.    I reposted with corrections & additions:   https://www.dropbox.com/s/myd0l3glu2pswxr/KLR650%20Wiring%20Diagram.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/1aa332xtwql4dbc/Individual%20Harness%20Plug%20Pin%20Outs.doc?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/th0clvcw0wd36lh/KLR%20Gen%201%20Pinouts%202_Page_1.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/fakbncdralk6359/KLR%20Gen%201%20Pinouts%202_Page_2.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/fakbncdralk6359/KLR%20Gen%201%20Pinouts%202_Page_2.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek2z0d4iqa6joln/KLR650%20Wiring%20Plug%20Identification.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vg9xfoxmx8pbpz/Main%20junction%20plugs%20labeled.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/xlxaivs7ojttifw/Main%20wiring%20plugs%20under%20the%20dash2.doc?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwzjrfh8o9feqrn/Plug%20Identification%20By%20Number.doc?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/31fqzde221ovhmj/Starter%20Relay%20Area%20labeled.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl3mrpldx08i2oc/steering%20head%20area%20wiring%20labeled.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3kx86cry74d8v5/steering%20head%20area%20wiring%20lower%20labeled.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhmzi458opiauh6/Trigger%20Coil%20Neutral%20Switch%20labeled.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ncd09p3w65o8gz/VRR%20area%20labeled%20%282%29.jpg?dl=0   https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkfwez7x1oy2ogi/Wiring%20harness%202%20labeled.jpg?dl=0

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-883471491 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-883471491cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-883471491 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-883471491cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-883471491 .ygrps-yiv-883471491plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-883471491 .ygrps-yiv-883471491plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-883471491 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-883471491 .ygrps-yiv-883471491plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-883471491 .ygrps-yiv-883471491plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} You likely know all or most of the following but people have told me that more background can be very helpful in following what's happening with others' posts so please forgive the detail. I always type this off the top of my head so may vary slightly from other descriptions.   The KLR uses a shunt type VRR which is not as efficient as a series type but they work well enough. The Gen1 VRR is under the seat as you will know, although some have moved to the front with the intent to increase air flow as with Gen2. Unless there is something blocking the under seat area, such as a sheep skin seat cover, the air flow seems more than adequate under there according to the temperature tests I did some years ago.   I mention temperature because high VRR temperatures can cause voltage variations.   Check the diagrams I linked in the previous post and you will note that the VRR has three yellow stator wires (AC from the alternator) which come up to the harness plug near the rad tank and then back to the VRR plug. Check the connections at both plugs, especially the yellow for signs of corrosion and heating since this will drop out two legs of the AC and cause a lot of heat in the plug. People check the one at the VRR but I don't think many know how the wiring is routed and that's why I did the wiring diagram work.   Also check the Black/yellow (ground) for voltage drop between the Black/yellow wire in the VRR plug and ground with engine running and headlight one. If you're seeing anything more than 1/2 volt, time to deal with that. I like less than 0.2 volts, FWIW.   Next thing is to check the voltage drop between the White terminal in the VRR and the battery +. Same values as above.   Next one is the Brown wire at the VRR plug. It is the voltage sense wire from the switched side of the ignition switch to the VRR. The idea is to allow the VRR to look at the voltage at the switched side of the Ignition Switch so that it can compensate for the voltage drops in the wiring up to the Ignition Switch. This allows them to use smaller wire than otherwise. It's also why the KLR battery tends to go through water, especially if there's a high voltage drop between the White and Brown wires because the VRR shoves up the voltage to compensate which can push the battery voltage up quite high in comparison. This is all obvious from the wiring diagram.   Check voltage drop between the Brown and White VRR terminals. Should be less than 1/2 volt.   Once you have values there, post them back and will try to walk you through next steps. It's always fun to do this by remote control and tests my brain. It does also make me chuckle because more than 50% of the time the person I'm helping is far smarter than I am so often passes me in understanding. Funny ...don't know why but great to see. 

[achesley43@ymail.com]

Thanks Fred, will check all that. Have the carb off now and found a vac leak on one of the blocking nipples so will get two new ones tomorrow. I need the part that always breaks at the carb for the enrichener. I need to go to your web site as I think you have them. Took all that apart also. Having fun with this, gives me something to do. .  I'm eat up with wiring diagrams as I have a few mods to the harness , plus LED blinkers and indicators. As mentioned, on the lift, and warmed up till the fan comes on, I've run it from 2000 to 6000 r's and the voltage is steady at 14.1. Doesn't drop in the 13's till under 2 grand and to about 12.8 or .9 at idle. I'll play with that more after i get the carb and fuel tank back on. Thanks for all the suggestion guys. Never can tell when someone will suggest something that solves little problems. Happened to me many times in my years as drilling rig mechanic / electrician. Some roughneck would suggest something that just didn't seem like it could be the problem, But, we check it anyway and bingo. 

[achesley43@ymail.com]

Found it on your website and ordered it Fred.  Thank You.  The Suzuki Bandit 1250s is probably glad it's gonna get more use than the KLR for a bit.  ;-) 

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-81646885 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-81646885cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-81646885 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-81646885cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-81646885 .ygrps-yiv-81646885plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-81646885 .ygrps-yiv-81646885plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-81646885 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-81646885 .ygrps-yiv-81646885plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-81646885 .ygrps-yiv-81646885plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} A couple more thoughts regarding the KLR charging system:   Someone mentioned the KLR "wire which isn't used" in reference to using an FH020 VRR. This is the Brown wire from the VRR to the switched side of the ignition switch as I mentioned in my "tome".   If one uses a VRR such as the FH020 which takes voltage reference from the output pin of the VRR (White wire on the KLR), the voltage will be lower at the headlight and other Brown circuit loads. Not a problem generally, and another reason to upgrade the White circuit or even better to install a power relay up front to power things so as to remove the load from the ignition switch and small KLR OEM wiring.   Someone else...or maybe the same person, posted the use of a MOSFET VRR but wanted to caution that "MOSFET" simply means "Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor", and yes I did have to look it up as never remember more than Field Effect Transistor....in fact I have no idea whether there are other FET which aren't Metal Oxide.   Point is, and those posting likely know more than I do but simply didn't have time to post additional detail, buying a "MESFET" VRR doesn't guarantee that one is buying a series type VRR as many of us used to conclude. I recently bought a MOSFET unit off EBay which is a shunt type but appears (by the voltage drops) to be MOSFET. Just a caution in case someone has a problem from going down that path.   Perhaps someone can check me on this as?  The VRR will deliver a maximum current due to saturation (no one likely wants to wade through that explanation here so will simply call it saturation) in which the magnetism created by the current generated in the stator interferes with the rotor's magnetism and so limits the output current to the rated maximum. This is why alternators don't usually require current regulation/limiting control while conventional DC generators do. So, the maximum output from the KLR alternator won't be increased by improving the VRR, but, as the poster indicated, the KLR alternator's output can be increased at lower RPM by an improved VRR.   In other words, the alternator may start charging a bit sooner and charge more at lower RPM with a better VRR. Not a huge increase but the difference between gaining a bit or losing a bit can be important. That, IMO, was the point being made when one expands it a bit.   I haven't found an FH020 or VRR of the type which are supposed to be series type to have been shunt type but the sample size for replaced VRR has not been huge so they may be out there. Questioning has indicated that almost everyone swapping VRR simply does so on faith that they are installing the type expected.   Has anyone tested and confirmed or found not to be the type claimed?