how to make your front fender shine like new

[RobertWichert]

[img]cid:part1.00040608.09020400@wichert.org[/img] -- Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C HERS I/II CEPE CEA BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-405445390 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-405445390cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-405445390 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-405445390cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-405445390 .ygrps-yiv-405445390plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-405445390 .ygrps-yiv-405445390plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-405445390 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-405445390 .ygrps-yiv-405445390plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-405445390 .ygrps-yiv-405445390plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} As a retired tech I still see huge numbers of rounded fasteners and still have friends and shops send some nasty ones for removal. I'm a masochist. :crazy   A couple of tricks which may help someone in dealing with rounded out Phillips heads, or better for about to be rounded:   1) Dip the tip of the screwdriver into some valve grinding compound or one of the sure grip type products which are valve grinding compound in a smaller bottle for more money. If you don't have a tin of this stuff, please put it on your list as it saves huge amounts of trouble. Also works well on rounded or about to be, bleeder screws, Allen head screws, hex bolts.   2) Use a gasket hammer (tiny one) to rivet the displaced, rounded socket area of the screw head. When the Phillips drive area rounded out, the metal was displaced to smack the top of the head face to displace steel back into the drive area. Then take a screwdriver bit and use the same tiny hammer to drive the bit into the screw to form a new, perfectly fitting drive socket. Make certain to keep the screwdriver axial to the screw and that usually does it. Nice part is that the screw can be reused in not critical areas such as the sheet metal covers on the little Honda generator in the photos.   3) Here's another I use often: use a very small and sharp chisel with the tiny hammer to make a groove in the side of the screw head. Chisel in radially to get a good notch, then grab a dull chisel of the same size, angle it and use the tiny hammer and chisel to rotate the screw. Once it starts to move, one can usually use a screwdriver or trick #2.   HIH   https://www.dropbox.com/s/li8r7pzvwst46wb/Damaged%20Phillips.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlx7zmg7psa5mk8/Damaged%20Phillips2.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n85dha0i9nqma5/Damaged%20Phillips3.jpg

[RobertWichert]

A very capable welder did this for me. The screw is from the doohickey side cover wire loom hold-down. We grabbed it with vice grips and Voila! Screw is out. He is a very good welder. [img]cid:part1.09010605.02060501@wichert.org[/img] Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C HERS I/II CEPE CEA BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 7/25/2014 3:22 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@gmail.com [DSN_KLR650] wrote:

As a retired tech I still see huge numbers of rounded fasteners and still have friends and shops send some nasty ones for removal. I'm a masochist. :crazy A couple of tricks which may help someone in dealing with rounded out Phillips heads, or better for about to be rounded: 1) Dip the tip of the screwdriver into some valve grinding compound or one of the sure grip type products which are valve grinding compound in a smaller bottle for more money. If you don't have a tin of this stuff, please put it on your list as it saves huge amounts of trouble. Also works well on rounded or about to be, bleeder screws, Allen head screws, hex bolts. 2) Use a gasket hammer (tiny one) to rivet the displaced, rounded socket area of the screw head. When the Phillips drive area rounded out, the metal was displaced to smack the top of the head face to displace steel back into the drive area. Then take a screwdriver bit and use the same tiny hammer to drive the bit into the screw to form a new, perfectly fitting drive socket. Make certain to keep the screwdriver axial to the screw and that usually does it. Nice part is that the screw can be reused in not critical areas such as the sheet metal covers on the little Honda generator in the photos. 3) Here's another I use often: use a very small and sharp chisel with the tiny hammer to make a groove in the side of the screw head. Chisel in radially to get a good notch, then grab a dull chisel of the same size, angle it and use the tiny hammer and chisel to rotate the screw. Once it starts to move, one can usually use a screwdriver or trick #2. HIH https://www.dropbox.com/s/li8r7pzvwst46wb/Damaged%20Phillips.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlx7zmg7psa5mk8/Damaged%20Phillips2.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n85dha0i9nqma5/Damaged%20Phillips3.jpg

[Desert Datsuns]

On the same subject: To keep them from getting rounded to begin with, buy a set of JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) phillips head screwdrivers. All the phillips fasteners on a Japanese bike are JIS. They may look the same as a normal phillips, but they aren't, and you can feel how well a JIS screwdriver fits into Japanese bike screws compared to a normal screwdriver. You'll be especially happy when it comes to things like brake reservoir cover screws. Ryan Newman Phoenix, AZ RobertWichert robert@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote:

> > > A very capable welder did this for me. The screw is from the doohickey > side cover wire loom hold-down. We grabbed it with vice grips and > Voila! Screw is out. > > He is a very good welder. > > > > Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C > HERS I/II CEPE CEA > BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > =============================================== > > On 7/25/2014 3:22 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote: >> >> >> As a retired tech I still see huge numbers of rounded fasteners and >> still have friends and shops send some nasty ones for removal. I'm a >> masochist. :crazy >> >> A couple of tricks which may help someone in dealing with rounded out >> Phillips heads, or better for about to be rounded: >> >> 1) Dip the tip of the screwdriver into some valve grinding compound or >> one of the sure grip type products which are valve grinding compound >> in a smaller bottle for more money. If you don't have a tin of this >> stuff, please put it on your list as it saves huge amounts of trouble. >> Also works well on rounded or about to be, bleeder screws, Allen head >> screws, hex bolts. >> >> 2) Use a gasket hammer (tiny one) to rivet the displaced, rounded >> socket area of the screw head. When the Phillips drive area rounded >> out, the metal was displaced to smack the top of the head face to >> displace steel back into the drive area. Then take a screwdriver bit >> and use the same tiny hammer to drive the bit into the screw to form a >> new, perfectly fitting drive socket. Make certain to keep the >> screwdriver axial to the screw and that usually does it. Nice part is >> that the screw can be reused in not critical areas such as the sheet >> metal covers on the little Honda generator in the photos. >> >> 3) Here's another I use often: use a very small and sharp chisel with >> the tiny hammer to make a groove in the side of the screw head. Chisel >> in radially to get a good notch, then grab a dull chisel of the same >> size, angle it and use the tiny hammer and chisel to rotate the screw. >> Once it starts to move, one can usually use a screwdriver or trick #2. >> >> HIH >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/li8r7pzvwst46wb/Damaged%20Phillips.jpg >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlx7zmg7psa5mk8/Damaged%20Phillips2.jpg >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n85dha0i9nqma5/Damaged%20Phillips3.jpg > >

[Paul Whatley]

Thank you all for this post. I have been thinking about the rounded "Phillips" fasteners on my KLR knowing that the Asians have a different standard but not knowing what it was.. Paul Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 25, 2014, at 6:56 PM, "Desert Datsuns datsun@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  On the same subject: To keep them from getting rounded to begin with, buy a set of JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) phillips head screwdrivers. All the phillips fasteners on a Japanese bike are JIS. They may look the same as a normal phillips, but they aren't, and you can feel how well a JIS screwdriver fits into Japanese bike screws compared to a normal screwdriver. You'll be especially happy when it comes to things like brake reservoir cover screws. Ryan Newman Phoenix, AZ RobertWichert robert@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote: > > > A very capable welder did this for me. The screw is from the doohickey > side cover wire loom hold-down. We grabbed it with vice grips and > Voila! Screw is out. > > He is a very good welder. > > > > Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C > HERS I/II CEPE CEA > BPI CERTIFIED SF/MF GREEN POINT RATER > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > =============================================== > > On 7/25/2014 3:22 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] wrote: >> >> >> As a retired tech I still see huge numbers of rounded fasteners and >> still have friends and shops send some nasty ones for removal. I'm a >> masochist. :crazy >> >> A couple of tricks which may help someone in dealing with rounded out >> Phillips heads, or better for about to be rounded: >> >> 1) Dip the tip of the screwdriver into some valve grinding compound or >> one of the sure grip type products which are valve grinding compound >> in a smaller bottle for more money. If you don't have a tin of this >> stuff, please put it on your list as it saves huge amounts of trouble. >> Also works well on rounded or about to be, bleeder screws, Allen head >> screws, hex bolts. >> >> 2) Use a gasket hammer (tiny one) to rivet the displaced, rounded >> socket area of the screw head. When the Phillips drive area rounded >> out, the metal was displaced to smack the top of the head face to >> displace steel back into the drive area. Then take a screwdriver bit >> and use the same tiny hammer to drive the bit into the screw to form a >> new, perfectly fitting drive socket. Make certain to keep the >> screwdriver axial to the screw and that usually does it. Nice part is >> that the screw can be reused in not critical areas such as the sheet >> metal covers on the little Honda generator in the photos. >> >> 3) Here's another I use often: use a very small and sharp chisel with >> the tiny hammer to make a groove in the side of the screw head. Chisel >> in radially to get a good notch, then grab a dull chisel of the same >> size, angle it and use the tiny hammer and chisel to rotate the screw. >> Once it starts to move, one can usually use a screwdriver or trick #2. >> >> HIH >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/li8r7pzvwst46wb/Damaged%20Phillips.jpg >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlx7zmg7psa5mk8/Damaged%20Phillips2.jpg >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n85dha0i9nqma5/Damaged%20Phillips3.jpg > >

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-1824271472 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1824271472cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-1824271472cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 .ygrps-yiv-1824271472plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 .ygrps-yiv-1824271472plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 .ygrps-yiv-1824271472plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-1824271472 .ygrps-yiv-1824271472plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} Doesn't take as much skill as most people seem to believe to weld to a screw or broken section. I know that not much skill is needed because I do it frequently which has to prove that point.    I'd think a gibbon could be trained to weld better than I can, especially a young gibbon who can see what it's doing.    Welding often loosens the seized threads because a quick and violent heating of the steel often forces the steel to become plastic and flow lengthwise in response to the pressure. When it cools, the lengthened piece is reduced in diameter which helps in freeing it up. I find that welding to a seized one usually works better than heating.   Only KLR600 master cylinder I've touched in a long while, had both lid screws badly seized. They are larger than the 650 screws which was helpful so I just MIG'd a screw to each and they came out quite easily. Might have taken photos.... Much like Robert's photo.   A friend's shop asked me to extract a caliper pad bolt from an old MX bike last week and that one was one of the worst I've seen. 8 mm thread with extension section below the threads. The head was snapped off just below the aluminum surface of the caliper. Tried 6 or 8 times to weld a bolt to the stub but every time the weld or material just below the weld sheared. I finally became aggressive and built up the stud much as did Robert's friend but to full diameter until above the surface. Then a nut was dropped over and welded. It kept shearing off below the weld at every attempt which was "interesting" because that much heating and cooling, combined with wax and other penetrants usually has seized bits out.   Gave up on that and drilled though the threaded section which usually collapses the piece a few thou and loosens. Even my Rigid extractors wouldn't budge it so had to drill to root diameter, then to index a tap to pick out the threads. Typically, I find that drilling to root allows the threads to be rolled out with a pick but not a chance. Wish someone who understands metallurgy and corrosion would have been here to explain that.....  Only a retired type has so much time to waste but I'll bet the owner was happy not to have to put a $300 caliper on a aged bike.

[Lee Dodge]

I know this doesn't address the topic but do yourself a favor, read it anyway. Newman has it right -the "phillips" head screws ane NOT Phillips head they are JIS.standard.  Expensive yes but they actually fit and will virtually eliminate rounded heads. This first one is a secret weapon.  New to me but not anymore . . Vessel IMPACTA 980 Series JIS P2x100 Impact Screwdriver ^  [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgalleryplus.ebayimg.com%2Fws%2Fweb%2F300888703234_1_0_1%2F1000x1000.jpg&t=1571809674&sig=QUpNExjb5L_iDOqjgLML8w--~E[/img]     Vessel IMPACTA 980 Series JIS P2x100 Impact Screwdriv...US $22.95 New in Business & Industrial, Light Equipment & Tools, Hand ToolsView on www.ebay.comPreview by Yahoo   This set is basic HOZAN JIS-4 JIS Screwdriver Set (4pc/set) 3RD GEN [NEW]   [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgalleryplus.ebayimg.com%2Fws%2Fweb%2F181329695788_1_0_1%2F1000x1000.jpg&t=1571809674&sig=_p0D2pMogNcI3uFAcydikQ--~E[/img]     HOZAN JIS-4 JIS Screwdriver Set (4pc/set) 3RD GEN [...US $24.50 New in Home & Garden, Tools, Hand ToolsView on www.ebay.comPreview by Yahoo    HOZAN JIS-4 JIS Screwdriver Set (4pc/set) 3RD GEN [NEW]

[Eddie]

To help avoid rounded-out screws: In lieu of lapping compound, conspicuously absent for most trailside repairs, I've wet the tip of a

screwdriver with spit and dabbed it in the dust/dirt. Then as suggested, tapped the end of the screwdriver with a wrench or closed pocket knife to seat it in the offending screw before attempting removal. =)

eddie

[Norm Keller]

Eddie, just checking: It's screwdriver in the mouth, then, dip in the dirt, right? I will try to keep that straight. After not thinking far enough ahead to measure distributor shaft protrusion, not certain I can keep the screwdriver steps straight. Sometimes, I think I'm getting dumber qiucker than I'm getting older. "To help avoid rounded-out screws: In lieu of lapping compound, conspicuously absent for most trailside repairs, I've wet the tip of a screwdriver with spit and dabbed it in the dust/dirt. Then as suggested, tapped the end of the screwdriver with a wrench or closed pocket knife to seat it in the offending screw before attempting removal. =) eddie " [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]